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YOUNGSTOWN BOYS

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ExpatAkronite said:
Oy, this is going in different directions and is not helped by the fact I'm multitasking--beer, wine, now over Sunday Night game, a video game and this forum...but...

Woody. It has taken me years to try and put this in perspective but it doesn't matter how long he was there, how little he was paid, how much he accomplished---he punched a kid (and on national tv). Yet, Clarett and the tatgate lads are the ones who were the real threat to the program? Bull[Mark May]. And my question--several pages ago--was did they lead Clarett to believe they were looking into options to get him back for the funeral? It really doesn't matter if he was a purported gangbanger. It does kind of matter if they spooned him a line of bull[Mark May] (with a MNC on the line and all).
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I think what you're getting at is did the higher ups at the university (and by that I mean Geiger and above) enter into some Faustian bargain with Clarett and attempt to finesse the situation to get through the 02 season? Yes, I think they did and did wrongly IMO. I, however, also think at some point they came to the conclusion that they were mistaken in that tact and had inadvertently created a beast that they could no longer control and chose at that time (rightly IMO) to sever that beast from the university.

In my opinion, he should have been benched after the ESPN Magazine article and if not then, then certainly after the sideline tantrum with Spencer. That it was not nipped in the bud, I lay at the feet of Tressel. JT was his coach, and he was the first in line to have reigned the kid back under control. It was his abdication of responsibility that led to the problem being laid at Geiger's doorstep. By that time, it had spun out of control to a degree that the higher ups had to step in and were, at that point, trying to do damage control rather than proactively deal with a situation, which the head coach of the football team should have already dealt with.

As for comparing the MoC and the Tat-5 with Woody, it's a fundamental difference. Woody's actions were deeply embarrassing and justified his termination. They, however, did not call into question the football program's compliance with NCAA rules and the university's integrity. The actions of the Tat-5 and Tressel, however, did exactly that. That's the difference, and that's why Woody was welcomed back so quickly while the latter remain--and rightfully so--personas non grata.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
I think what you're getting at is did the higher ups at the university (and by that I mean Geiger and above) enter into some Faustian bargain with Clarett and attempt to finesse the situation to get through the 02 season? Yes, I think they did and did wrongly IMO. I, however, also think at some point they came to the conclusion that they were mistaken in that tact and had inadvertently created a beast that they could no longer control and chose at that time (rightly IMO) to sever that beast from the university.

In my opinion, he should have been benched after the ESPN Magazine article and if not then, then certainly after the sideline tantrum with Spencer. That it was not nipped in the bud, I lay at the feet of Tressel. JT was his coach, and he was the first in line to have reigned the kid back under control. It was his abdication of responsibility that led to the problem being laid at Geiger's doorstep. By that time, it had spun out of control to a degree that the higher ups had to step in and were, at that point, trying to do damage control rather than proactively deal with a situation, which the head coach of the football team should have already dealt with.

As for comparing the MoC and the Tat-5 with Woody, it's a fundamental difference. Woody's actions were deeply embarrassing and justified his termination. They, however, did not call into question the football program's compliance with NCAA rules and the university's integrity. The actions of the Tat-5 and Tressel, however, did exactly that. That's the difference, and that's why Woody was welcomed back so quickly while the latter remain--and rightfully so--personas non grata.
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Goethe references? Let's not get too cerebral here.
 
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ExpatAkronite said:
I guess my main point here--having grown up in Ohio football culture--is that programs are more than willing--indeed fall all over themselves--to take the high reward/high risk kid and will just as quickly shed all ties with that kid if things go south. That's bull[Mark May].
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You're right, but it's not just an Ohio State problem. Any BCS program with any intentions of being conference relevant much less nationally relevant does the same. They do it with academic risks and hope to hide them out in kinesiolog, parks and rec or sports management majors. Hell, Texas created a special major, normal students need not apply, just so they could get a certified retard named Vince Young through three years of school. The great irony with Clarett is that he wasn't a high risk kid academically--1260 on his SAT I believe. Ohio State has taken in far greater risks than MoC, many of whom both never cause a peep of trouble and end up with a degree. He was the wild card that came out of nowhere to bite us in the ass.

In any event, there should be some outlet for these high risk kids to hone their foosball skills outside of a university environment and prepare for their shot at the NFL.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
You're right, but it's not just an Ohio State problem. Any BCS program with any intentions of being conference relevant much less nationally relevant does the same. They do it with academic risks and hope to hide them out in kinesiolog, parks and rec or sports management majors. Hell, Texas created a special major, normal students need not apply, just so they could get a certified retard named Vince Young through three years of school. The great irony with Clarett is that he wasn't a high risk kid academically--1260 on his SAT I believe. Ohio State has taken in far greater risks than MoC, many of whom both never cause a peep of trouble and end up with a degree. He was the wild card that came out of nowhere to bite us in the ass.

In any event, there should be some outlet for these high risk kids to hone their foosball skills outside of a university environment and prepare for their shot at the NFL.
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+ lots. The American secondary education system has become way too much about $ and less about education. One has to wonder how they keep their non profit status (well, not really).
 
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Seems entirely plausible to me that Tressel was concerned that Mo C just might get himself shot if he went back for that funeral, but didn't want to FUBAR team chemistry by telling him no himself. So he got Geiger to agree to be bad cop. Whaetever one thinks of Geiger, and I'm a fan, I thought that he took a lot of other people's bullets in defense of tOSU and I doubt that when it came to Mo C he had so much dislike in his heart that he couldn't get past it and look out for tOSU's best interests, which was his job. I believe that he was too professional to "screw" Mo C unless he believed that he had to to protect OSU.
 
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I watched last night's airing. Pretty solid show, for the most part. I wish they would have put more of MoC's problems on him, instead of portraying Tress and Geiger as the big, bad football-crazy administrators who simply used him to get their crystal trophy and then tossed him aside when they were done with him in order to save their own asses. I mean let's face it, no one would have liked to have MoC back for 2 or 3 more years than Tress........

It's really good to see him turning his life around and serving as a positive role model for his daughter and youth everywhere. He might always look back and wonder what could have been, but if he continues on the path he is now, he can be a lot more influential to a lot more kids than any NFL player could ever be.

Edit - I know it might not be a popular sentiment among Buckeye faithful, but Herbie's quote that was included in the hype leading up the NC game was completely inaccurate. He was sarcastically mimicking what the national media had been saying "...why are we even playing this game!?" They did not show him actually picking tOSU to win.
 
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There were a lot of editing choices that gave me doubts about anything in the film....which is disappointing. Herbie's quote was one of them. I distinctly remember him picking us and being mocked. His quote was definite sarcasm that was played off as if he were being serious. I don't really get why....there were plenty of people saying the same thing and being serious.

I also felt MoC's lawyer was a scumbag. I hope I'm never in the position to have to hire a person like him.
 
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Finally got to watch it. I'm curious as to why they didn't add his lack of attendance in going to class as part of the reason for his suspension.

Also why they showed Carlos Hyde trucking Stan Drayton when they were talking about Clarrett enrolling early to get spring training.
 
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Onebuckfan said:
Would MoC be better off today if he never went to college? I cant say..
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I don't think he'd be alive. I've a good friend from the NE Ohio area who keeps close track on athletes. On the day MoC committed to OSU, he told me that Tressel would have his hands full.

One thing I know for sure, OSU would be minus one NC crystal football without him, and might have had a second with him.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
In any event, there should be some outlet for these high risk kids to hone their foosball skills outside of a university environment and prepare for their shot at the NFL.
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That would mean the NFL creating a minor league system which would take money from management and labor/athletes. It would probably mean the end of "big time" college football as we now know it. But we'd soon find out how many people would come to Ohio Stadium just to see the band. And just think of the impact in urban and rural schools if the word went out that kids with great grades could go to The Ohio State University on scholarship. Now that I think about it, that brings a new meaning to "scholarship."
 
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