YOUNGSTOWN BOYS

[MaxBuck]

Every perceived slight, no matter how insignificant, is evidence of some vast conspiracy, someones incompetence, or both.

This is the thing that frustrates me the most when I visit BP; so many people take this attitude relative to media coverage of the Buckeyes.

And no, I'm not so naive or stupid to think it's different in any other major fan base for highly successful teams. It's the way many (and perhaps most) sports fans are, especially collegiate fans. But I'm continually bemused as to why smart folks who laugh at conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assassination or the moon landing have no problem believing that massive media conspiracies are in play regarding Ohio State Buckeyes football.

 

[kujirakira]

But there are such things as deadlines, laziness and lack of professional integrity.

I doubt it's laziness. You don't get to that point in film-making by laziness. There's a million fresh-out-of-college kids that'd work minimum wage for a shot at a job in the media; and the attrition rate is pretty substantial.
Deadlines are hard, but it seems to me 30-30 works on a comparably loose deadline (relative to most shows that air weekly or daily)
IMO they wanted to put something in a certain light... they didn't have the footage... so they manufactured some that the average viewer wouldn't notice.
I'm not trying to go all conspiracy theory "they're against us"; just pointing out that's how all editing works. The directors are given a narrative, and every soundbite and every video clip is put in intentionally... even agonized over... reviewed by the Producer(s) several times.
Journalistic Integrity is as much a farce as Politician Integrity.

 

[Tlangs]

I have no problem with them using the Carlos Hyde clip. It got the point accross about being a powerful runner.

The wierdest thing about the film was the placement of the JT halftime speech and cutting out the "310 days" part. Of course that speech was before 2001 so it didn't even apply to the game they were showing highlights for. They should have used the clip when they were talking about JT taking over at OSU. It was really bizzare. They show JT talking about being proud of the student athletes "in Ann Arbor" then they show highlights from a home game against the scummers.

 

[cincibuck]

Playing the Youngstown connection to the max, it has always been a thought of mine that MoC might have acted differently if he had not been where he was in the beginning of the LeBron era. LeBron got away with so much - gifts, limos, special treatment - and because he wasn't going to college he didn't have to conform to NCAA rules. When the OHHSAA tried to crack down on him, he went to court and won.

As a high school senior being sought by colleges, it would be hard for MoC to watch how LeBron was treated and not think that the same liberties should be available to him. That he was operating under a completely different set of rules would not automatically come to him, or perhaps he believed that Ohio State would/could/should bail him out.

 

[jlb1705]

I have no problem with them using the Carlos Hyde clip. It got the point accross about being a powerful runner.

Agreed. It's B-roll for goodness' sake.

Coverage of college football is vastly different now than it was then, and Clarett played for a coach that whose practices were not as open. What ended up being used was a generic, readily available clip that illustrated the point that was being communicated at that moment in the film, and 99% of the non-Buckeye audience (it is being made for viewing by more than just Ohio State fans after all) would not recognize the discrepancy.

The wierdest thing about the film was the placement of the JT halftime speech and cutting out the "310 days" part. Of course that speech was before 2001 so it didn't even apply to the game they were showing highlights for. They should have used the clip when they were talking about JT taking over at OSU. It was really bizzare. They show JT talking about being proud of the student athletes "in Ann Arbor" then they show highlights from a home game against the scummers.

The filmmakers were not using that quote in its literal sense. The intentions stated by Tressel in the "310 days" soundbyte were not limited to just the 2001 game or only for years where the Buckeyes were in Ann Arbor. When Jim Tressel uttered that statement he was stating that things were going to change in the rivalry. While 2001 was the first victory for Tressel in The Game, 2002 was the first one the Buckeyes won under his leadership where they went into the game playing for a championship - a circumstance under which his predecessor was infamous for coming up short.

 

[Dryden]

I'm continually bemused as to why smart folks who laugh at conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assassination or the moon landing have no problem believing that massive media conspiracies are in play regarding Ohio State Buckeyes football.

Yeah, I've always found that particularly funny considering a disproportionate number of ESPN's on-air talent (Herbstreit, Spielman, Smith, Galloway, Carter) plus the Senior VP of News at ESPN, Vince Doria, all attended and/or earned degrees from Ohio State.

 

[BIATCHabutuka]

one, good movie. i enjoyed it.

two, all this talk about maurice and being suspended got me thinking.

we keep mo C for 2003 and 2004 and then don't have the troy smith suspension and we likely go undefeated in what 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, etc.

what a roll we could have been on, still though a golden age of ohio state football that can't be tarnished by any off field nonsense, not in my memory.

 

[Coqui]

one, good movie. i enjoyed it.

two, all this talk about maurice and being suspended got me thinking.

we keep mo C for 2003 and 2004 and then don't have the troy smith suspension and we likely go undefeated in what 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, etc.

what a roll we could have been on, still though a golden age of ohio state football that can't be tarnished by any off field nonsense, not in my memory.

Don't know about 2004, And Clarett would have left before 2005

 

[AKAK]

one, good movie. i enjoyed it.

two, all this talk about maurice and being suspended got me thinking.

we keep mo C for 2003 and 2004 and then don't have the troy smith suspension and we likely go undefeated in what 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, etc.

what a roll we could have been on, still though a golden age of ohio state football that can't be tarnished by any off field nonsense, not in my memory.

We'd have had a chace in '03. In '04, umm... no. Actually, now that I think about it, you just never know how that cookie is gonna crumble, maybe Maurice extends the Zwick era into '05... who knows. But, that '04 Defense wasn't ready for prime time no matter what MoC does.

 

[Dryden]

Definitely would have been a difference maker and the missing piece in '03. The team netted 54 yards rushing against Michigan and 69 yards rushing against Wisconsin that year.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

I disagree with the notion that these guys--much less any one player--drive revenue to the athletic departments in the way some of their proponents contend. Ohio State is a brand that has been built up over decades. Would Ohio State really have made a penny less had MoC or Pryor opted to go elsewhere?

As for special treatment, they already get it to a disturbing degree: "success centers," extensive tutoring, teddy bear soft majors to stay eligible, scheduling priorities and so on. And on top of it all, they're given an 80 to 120 thousand dollar education. As for MoC in particular, he was given chance after chance from the magazine debacle to the screaming match with Tim Spencer to the unnecessary [Mark May]show he put on in Phoenix.

Clarett chose to throw that all away, and he attempted to drag the university through the mud on a national stage in the process. I was back in the country and living in Columbus when it all went down. As far as I was concerned, Geiger couldn't flush him fast enough. Props to Geiger for doing what was right and what was in the best interests of Ohio State University.

Again, I think his turnaround has been incredibly inspiring, but the MoC of today was not the one on a rampage in 2003. That one needed to go.

While I agree with much of what you said, actually... all of it, I would just add that we should not forget that a large part of that brand, from an athletics perspective, has been built off of many individuals attending or coaching at tOSU. The success on the field comes as a result of those individuals such that the sum of the parts is much less than the whole. I'd offer a mental experiment for those of us who don't think that individuals are important in building the brand of which we type... Consider removing the top-two players from every class at tOSU for the last 50-years. Remove them, not necessarily based on their rankings coming out of school... but in terms of their on-field performance while attending (read: you'd not likely eliminate 'lil Animal coming out of high school, but in my example, based on impact and performance, I would). Could you suggest that the "brand" would really be what it is today? We'll never know, but I don't think that this environment acts like a gas filling the volume of the container holding it. Perhaps I mistated the 'we'll never know' part? Consider our current situation with the back seven? If 50 years of tOSU football played at that level on both sides of the ball, would the brand be what it is? Again, purely from an athletics perspective.

My $.02...

 

[Onebuckfan]

IMO tOSU makes legends legends don't make tOSU..would Woody be a legend if he stayed at Miami, Archie at Kent State. Its the size, passion of alumni and fans, traditions that make tOSU. Almost any player who goes through tOSU and graduates can parlay his time on the football team into something special for his career or family. Who thought JT would become a legend or Troy Smith or Lil Animal..etc etc.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

You're right, but it's not just an Ohio State problem. Any BCS program with any intentions of being conference relevant much less nationally relevant does the same. They do it with academic risks and hope to hide them out in kinesiolog, parks and rec or sports management majors. Hell, Texas created a special major, normal students need not apply, just so they could get a certified retard named Vince Young through three years of school. The great irony with Clarett is that he wasn't a high risk kid academically--1260 on his SAT I believe. Ohio State has taken in far greater risks than MoC, many of whom both never cause a peep of trouble and end up with a degree. He was the wild card that came out of nowhere to bite us in the ass.

In any event, there should be some outlet for these high risk kids to hone their foosball skills outside of a university environment and prepare for their shot at the NFL.

I think that there were some home videos that suggested that MoC may have been an ass-biter. Just, ummm, not in the context you are suggesting.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

IMO tOSU makes legends legends don't make tOSU..would Woody be a legend if he stayed at Miami, Archie at Kent State. Its the size, passion of alumni and fans, traditions that make tOSU. Almost any player who goes through tOSU and graduates can parlay his time on the football team into something special for his career or family. Who thought JT would become a legend or Troy Smith or Lil Animal..etc etc.

Standing on shoulders of giants, and all, right? I get what you're saying. And to a large extent I give you that nod when I talk about removing those giants and the impact on the brand. My guess is that, while giants, the shoulders would have just been a bit lower.

Fair point, nonetheless.

 

[MaxBuck]

I think that there were some home videos that suggested that MoC may have been an ass-biter. Just, ummm, not in the context you are suggesting.

So you decided to go all Marv Alberts on us.