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, USC said the same thing about the tennis team.
ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
Bestbuck36;1938679; said:
Perhaps, but with what's come out as of now, we know that the golfing (and communication of it to JT) took place in the Summer of 2009, and the AD did not start looking into Talbott until July of 2010 resulting in his disassociation later that year.
So, there's three questions that need to be answered.
1) Did JT inform the AD about his info aboutTalbott (and I think it's safe to assume that he read the email because Talbott and the players stopped golfing at Scioto Reserve immediately after the club manager contacted him)?
2) Did the AD look into Talbott at this point if they were notified?
3) Did they report what was going on to the ncaa?
None of this new [Mark May] has come to light, Man.
My gut tells me that A) based upon his past, proven actions and general management style JT did not inform the ad and B) even if he did, the AD did not self-report because, had they done so, the star quarterback getting improper bennies from a memorabilia dealer would have come out and become news. We'll see.
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NateG
Can't waste the day when the night brings a hearse
Just because JT received emails and didn't forward them, doesn't mean that he didn't inform anyone of them. The reason he receives them is likely due to the fact that it is easier for an outsider to reach him that way. And in turn it is likely that it is easier for him to talk face to face with Smith than to email him. Especially if it is something that could be seen as a possible violation.
Plus we do not know what things Smith told JT when Smith was hired. He could have laid things out that it would be better for him to have JT talk with him face to face regarding things. All of this protects Smith because then he could act as if no one notified him.
From what I have heard from people that work internally in the financial side of OSU, they say the Smith is extremely hard to work with. that he has things done a certain way and that he rarely budges. Words I have heard used to describe Smith by those people internally... vile, incompetent, stubborn, selfish etc...
I haven't trusted Smith from the beginning of this whole ordeal. I think he has had it set up to where he was safe until the camel's back broke(which it almost has). He has done a poor job IMO lying in the pressers and even worse job of actually doing his job. I would not be surprised at all to hear that he has known about all of this stuff from day one and that he was one of the major reasons that things were swept under the rug.
Plus we do not know what things Smith told JT when Smith was hired. He could have laid things out that it would be better for him to have JT talk with him face to face regarding things. All of this protects Smith because then he could act as if no one notified him.
From what I have heard from people that work internally in the financial side of OSU, they say the Smith is extremely hard to work with. that he has things done a certain way and that he rarely budges. Words I have heard used to describe Smith by those people internally... vile, incompetent, stubborn, selfish etc...
I haven't trusted Smith from the beginning of this whole ordeal. I think he has had it set up to where he was safe until the camel's back broke(which it almost has). He has done a poor job IMO lying in the pressers and even worse job of actually doing his job. I would not be surprised at all to hear that he has known about all of this stuff from day one and that he was one of the major reasons that things were swept under the rug.
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ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
NateG;1938721; said:
Still, if JT forwarded any info to Smith regarding Fine Line or Talbott, he needs to speak up NOW. He's not protecting Ohio State--only Smith--by keeping silent at this point. If he truly loves Ohio State, he should want the TRUTH to get out and this self-serving cancer out of the university.
At this stage in the game--having been forced out of the job and with inevitable LOIC sanctions headed down the pike--there's nothing to be gained by protecting Smith. There's no logic or rationale to it that I can discern. JT is absolutely free to come forward with anything at this point.
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MaxBuck
SoCal, Baby!
This is just not defensible.ORD_Buckeye;1938730; said:
Look, I'm not going to defend Coach Tressel's failure to notify the compliance folks about the actions of Pryor et al; I'm not going to defend Pryor et al regarding their acceptance of improper benefits; I'm not even going to defend Gene Smith. But several things need to be said amidst this orgy of self-flagellation.
1. Student-athletes everywhere (even at the high-school level) get benefits that the NCAA terms improper and that would impair eligibility. If universities were to find and report everything that their athletes did from sunup to sundown every day and make athletes ineligible as a strict reading of the rules would dictate, every Saturday we'd be watching games of walk-ons against walk-ons, or even hastily-recruited intramural players. This is true for football, basketball, baseball, soccer, track and field - every sport. If you believe otherwise, you have no clue.
2. Kids like Pryor grow up with not much in the way of tangible goods, and when their athletic talent brings benefits their way (often when they're not yet into their teens) they develop habit patterns of accepting them. I mean, if your mom has trouble filling the kitchen pantry, how likely are you to turn down a free hamburger? Again, not an excuse, but for many if not most of these kids it's tough to turn down the opportunities, even when you've been told time and again not to.
3. We're talking rule violations, we're not talking violent crime - or indeed, any crime at all.
Were serious mistakes made? Of course they were. But let's hold off saying shit like "LOIC is inevitable." Unless someone here has inside information regarding the Committee on Infractions and their current thinking, we just don't know what penalties we will face. Is it possible we'll get LOIC? I suppose, but saying it's "inevitable" is just stupid posturing.
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ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
MaxBuck;1938733; said:
Actually, we're--as many others have noted--probably talking about tax evasion for Pryor at this point. Not a violent crime, but a crime nonetheless.
On to the larger point; mistakes and violations were made by the players. That doesn't cross over into LOIC. The coach learning about those violations and lying to the ncaa, possibly/probably does. If it reaches into the athletic department on any one of several levels (incompetent compliance department, self-serving cover up by the AD, failure to self-report Talbott) that, though not confirmed at this point, are all within the realm of possibility then LOIC is a near certainty.
I'll back off inevitable, but I'd say Ohio State's chances of escaping LOIC are less than 20%.
Anyway, my whole point was that JT has absolutely ZERO reason to take the fall for Gene Smith or the athletic department at this stage--professionally or personally. If he informed Smith, he needs to make it known. That will be helping Ohio State, not protecting Gene Smith and possibly helping keep him in a job for which he's clearly unfit. Keeping silent at this point is not protecting Ohio State; it would only be protecting Gene Smith.
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MaxBuck
SoCal, Baby!
Giving "odds" on LOIC? On what basis?
More important, though, we need as a fan base to quit beating ourselves up regarding violations, and regarding what appears to have been a culture of "plausible deniability." And the reason is simple: if you do not have such a culture, you'll never be able to field a competent team.
It must be incredibly difficult to maintain a compliance department in today's NCAA environment. If you are as effective at sniffing out violations as many here seem to wish, you'll prevent your teams from being competitive. If you are not (whether by design or "incompetence") very effective at "detection," instead focusing attention on education and counseling (the approach Ohio State appears to have taken), then you are essentially waiting until some Pulitzer awardee runs out of other shit to do and decides to look for the violations that everyone who isn't naive knows are going to be there.
The longer I think about this business, the less harsh is my opinion of Gene Smith. Since making some of my earlier comments in this thread, I've learned more and more about how rampant "improper benefits" are at colleges throughout D1, and extending into D2. Baseball players selling gloves and cleats, track athletes selling training shoes, soccer players routinely being treated to free meals - all violations, all happening pretty much everywhere. It's a balancing act, knowing that if you self-report you'll put yourself at a competitive disadvantage, and knowing your opponents don't take any more active role in sniffing out this stuff than you do. And knowing that other programs also have QBs, DBs, point guards driving cars they shouldn't be able to afford, but suffering no consequences.
Fine and dandy to say we'll be squeaky clean, until the consequences become clearer. Unfortunately, we're seeing the consequences of winning the Yahoo lottery and being less than clean. Bit of a Hobson's choice.
More important, though, we need as a fan base to quit beating ourselves up regarding violations, and regarding what appears to have been a culture of "plausible deniability." And the reason is simple: if you do not have such a culture, you'll never be able to field a competent team.
It must be incredibly difficult to maintain a compliance department in today's NCAA environment. If you are as effective at sniffing out violations as many here seem to wish, you'll prevent your teams from being competitive. If you are not (whether by design or "incompetence") very effective at "detection," instead focusing attention on education and counseling (the approach Ohio State appears to have taken), then you are essentially waiting until some Pulitzer awardee runs out of other shit to do and decides to look for the violations that everyone who isn't naive knows are going to be there.
The longer I think about this business, the less harsh is my opinion of Gene Smith. Since making some of my earlier comments in this thread, I've learned more and more about how rampant "improper benefits" are at colleges throughout D1, and extending into D2. Baseball players selling gloves and cleats, track athletes selling training shoes, soccer players routinely being treated to free meals - all violations, all happening pretty much everywhere. It's a balancing act, knowing that if you self-report you'll put yourself at a competitive disadvantage, and knowing your opponents don't take any more active role in sniffing out this stuff than you do. And knowing that other programs also have QBs, DBs, point guards driving cars they shouldn't be able to afford, but suffering no consequences.
Fine and dandy to say we'll be squeaky clean, until the consequences become clearer. Unfortunately, we're seeing the consequences of winning the Yahoo lottery and being less than clean. Bit of a Hobson's choice.
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strohs
Go Bucks!
Coqui;1938583; said:
Do you really think all 125 athletes need constant monitoring? Come on now. Everyone on the team, including the staff, knows who the bad apples are. JT clearly knew who the baddest apple was, as he was warned on multiple occasions, yet he chose to cover it up instead of act on it.
I cant believe at this point that anyone is actually still sticking up for Tressel, take off the scarlet colored glasses guys. Like many of you I always hung my hat on his integrity, but apparently that was non-existent. Its time to take our medicine, clean up the program, and move on.
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PipeHog
Newbie
Does anyone know if this has been confirmed.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/6/11/2219304/terrelle-pryor-car-towed-columbus-photo
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/6/11/2219304/terrelle-pryor-car-towed-columbus-photo
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PipeHog;1938769; said:
Probably true but like I posted in the other thread, getting towed on tOSU's campus is an every day occurrence. Hyper-aggressive towtruck companies...better known as parasites.
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