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MaxBuck;1975332; said:
I agree with the point you're making.
But it would be worse than USC going from Carroll to Kiffin.
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GeorgiaBuck2
Lets Go!
Why would we want Golden anyway. Where has he coached, Temple.
No Thanks.
No Thanks.
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daddyphatsacs
Let the cards fall...
cdiddy70;1975066; said:
It's not his fault that he was handed the job due to crazy circumstances. Bo Pelini didn't have any head coaching experience....how's that working out for Nebraska? Get over it and give the guy a freaking chance.
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I have no idea why this is supposed to be persuasive.daddyphatsacs;1975430; said:
Nebraska had few if any better options. OSU is not handcuffed like that
he gets a great chance this year with a talented roster.
Is it a long term shot ? No, but then he hasn't really earned that. He was simply around when Tressel left.
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WaitingforKickoff
Legend
How many first year OSU coaches are let go after defeating Michigan?
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WaitingforKickoff;1975455; said:
Zero. Here are the results for first-year coaches since tOSU joined the B1G in 1913.
Beat TSUN in his first year:
1929-33 - S. Willaman
1934-40 - F. Schmidt
1944-45 - C. Widdoes
1979-88 - E. Bruce
2001-10 - J. Tressel
Lost The Game in his first year:
1946-46 - P. Bixler
1947-50 - W. Fesler
1951-78 - W. Hayes
1988-00 - J. Cooper
Got a tie in his first year:
1941-43 - P. Brown
Didn't play TSUN in his first year:
1913-28 - J. Wilce
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MaxBuck
SoCal, Baby!
True enough, but no coach has been elevated to the HC position in the manner Coach Fickell has.NateG;1975647; said:
I hope for the best, which would leave Fickell in his position in 2012. I am emotionally prepared for the worst, which would result in our starting the official New Head Coach Search sometime in October. I have no expectations whatsoever.
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
After reading Fickell's presser from this week, I am just amazed at what a contrast he strikes to Meyer. All broadcast long, we were subject to constant stroking and puffing of Meyer's outsized ego, yet Luke won't even talk about his head coaching debut as being even significant. "It's all about this team...it's all about this group of guys." Meyer? "It's all about me me me me me and what a genius I was to give Tebow snaps as a freshman", and yapping about the spread as if he'd invented football.
Fuck that guy. He'd better never set foot on OSU's sideline as anything but a media talking head. If the BoT or influential alumni are courting that arrogant asshat, then fuck them too.
Ranting aside, I think Coach gets it regarding his opportunity. When he talks about the attitude the players need through the suspensions ("Next man up"), and talks about backups needing to take advantage of their opportunities so that they can have future opportunities, he's sharing his own attitude. He knows that he needs to get it done right now, and I think in his own mind his standards, expectations and goals are higher than anyone else's, and have been his entire life. I'm sure that he fully believes that this team and staff can go unbeaten and win a Big Ten and national championship, and he's going to work his ass off to do it.
Fuck that guy. He'd better never set foot on OSU's sideline as anything but a media talking head. If the BoT or influential alumni are courting that arrogant asshat, then fuck them too.
Ranting aside, I think Coach gets it regarding his opportunity. When he talks about the attitude the players need through the suspensions ("Next man up"), and talks about backups needing to take advantage of their opportunities so that they can have future opportunities, he's sharing his own attitude. He knows that he needs to get it done right now, and I think in his own mind his standards, expectations and goals are higher than anyone else's, and have been his entire life. I'm sure that he fully believes that this team and staff can go unbeaten and win a Big Ten and national championship, and he's going to work his ass off to do it.
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jwinslow;1975446; said:
He was not just "simply around" when Tressel left. He was the National Assistant Coach of the Year. What would you define as "earned". What would someone have to do to earn the head coaching position?
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BayBuck
Buckeyes are best
IMO we miss out on a huge opportunity, maybe not as sure a thing but with possibly more upside and definitely more longevity, if we let Fickell get away to another program after this season. There are no guarantees he would eventually come back, with that all-important HC experience, after Urban retires: maybe he ends up somewhere he can really make his mark and sticks there, he's a very loyal guy...
With Fickell we are guaranteed to continue the strong defensive tradition here, and he has a real chance to take the offense in a new direction as personnel changes: just like for HC, there's a long line of big-name and up-coming assistants who would love to have OSU resources at their disposal. C'mon, everyone wins at OSU: it's harder to imagine that this guy with his backstory and his level of enthusiasm and respect for the game won't become our next HoF coach. It's obvious already that Luke Fickell is going to lead these young men the right way and (continue to) give us all real pride in our Buckeyes. With Urban Meyer, we get wins, sure, but what else ?
:osu:
With Fickell we are guaranteed to continue the strong defensive tradition here, and he has a real chance to take the offense in a new direction as personnel changes: just like for HC, there's a long line of big-name and up-coming assistants who would love to have OSU resources at their disposal. C'mon, everyone wins at OSU: it's harder to imagine that this guy with his backstory and his level of enthusiasm and respect for the game won't become our next HoF coach. It's obvious already that Luke Fickell is going to lead these young men the right way and (continue to) give us all real pride in our Buckeyes. With Urban Meyer, we get wins, sure, but what else ?
:osu:
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The idea that Luke Fickell needs more preparation as a HC at a smaller program seems doesn't seem to correlate with the hiring practices of many other top programs. The screenshot below is a spreadsheet put together to illustrate the experience held by head coaches of programs in this week's AP Top 25 at the time they accepted their first head coaching position at a BCS-level program. To make this perfectly clear, this is meant to illustrate the level of experience Nick Saban, for instance, had at the time he was hired as HC at Michigan State, not the level of experience he had when he arrived at LSU or Alabama.
Overall exclusions include Chris Petersen (Boise State) and Gary Patterson (TCU). Neither of those programs are currently in BCS conferences and neither have previously held a position at any such program. I have also excluded Luke Fickell himself from the totals so his data doesn't skew anything that he's being compared to.
In the third column where previous HC experience was noted, there are a couple other exceptions that I want to point out. First of all, Nick Saban did serve as HC at Toledo before eventually getting his first HC gig at a BCS school. Since this is ultimately being used to make a point about Luke Fickell's situation, it has been excluded from the adjusted total in that column's summary. Even if one holds the position that Luke Fickell should have had HC before taking the reins at Ohio State, the idea that one year at a MAC school is comparable to that is a bit absurd. Secondly, there is the case of Mike Sherman, whose HC experience before joining Texas A&M was with the Green Bay Packers. I have excluded his experience from the adjusted total because again, it hardly applies to the situation with Luke Fickell because nobody would expect him to have to serve an internship as an NFL head coach to be suitable to lead Ohio State. Finally, there are three instances where coaches had HC experience at BCS schools (or schools that joined a BCS conference during their tenure) where I considered that "small school" experience, and ADDED that to the adjusted total in the summary.
Once that total is adjusted you can see that only 8/22 head coaches in this sample had relevant HC experience at a smaller school before getting their first BCS-level gig. Only 7/22 had any kind of NFL experience (I didn't count Spurrier's stint in the USFL as equivalent to NFL experience.) On the other hand, 22/22 coaches on the list had experience as an assistant coach at the BCS level. I think these numbers establish that working as an assistant coach at a BCS-level program is the most important and the most valued type of experience for a potential head coach.
I broke this down a little further, to find out the extent of the experience of these coaches and how it compares to that of Luke Fickell. I don't think anybody would argue that Fickell isn't younger than most (if not all) on the list or have less overall experience than most on the list. However, in the type of experience that these programs value most when hiring a new coach he seems to fit right in. The median amount of time spent as an assistant for all other coaches on the list is 9 years - which is exactly the amount of time Luke Fickell spent on Jim Tressel's staff at Ohio State. I excluded Joe Paterno from this statistic, since his hiring happened so long ago that it's hard to argue that any rationale that they used then would be applicable today. Also please note that I tallied the number of years for each coach by hand based on their bios. There's a chance I may have miscounted on a few of them and at this point I've proofread all that I care to.
Finally, I broke it down one step further to find the median among coaches whose experience was most like Coach Fickell's - no previous HC experience, no NFL experience of any kind. On this list there were seven other coaches who fall into that category. The median experience among them? 10 years as a BCS-level assistant. Fickell fits right in with this group.
In summary, while Fickell may be young and may lack the overall years of experience that many other top head coaches have, he holds enough of the right kind of experience to deserve the shot he's getting at leading the Ohio State program.
Overall exclusions include Chris Petersen (Boise State) and Gary Patterson (TCU). Neither of those programs are currently in BCS conferences and neither have previously held a position at any such program. I have also excluded Luke Fickell himself from the totals so his data doesn't skew anything that he's being compared to.
In the third column where previous HC experience was noted, there are a couple other exceptions that I want to point out. First of all, Nick Saban did serve as HC at Toledo before eventually getting his first HC gig at a BCS school. Since this is ultimately being used to make a point about Luke Fickell's situation, it has been excluded from the adjusted total in that column's summary. Even if one holds the position that Luke Fickell should have had HC before taking the reins at Ohio State, the idea that one year at a MAC school is comparable to that is a bit absurd. Secondly, there is the case of Mike Sherman, whose HC experience before joining Texas A&M was with the Green Bay Packers. I have excluded his experience from the adjusted total because again, it hardly applies to the situation with Luke Fickell because nobody would expect him to have to serve an internship as an NFL head coach to be suitable to lead Ohio State. Finally, there are three instances where coaches had HC experience at BCS schools (or schools that joined a BCS conference during their tenure) where I considered that "small school" experience, and ADDED that to the adjusted total in the summary.
Once that total is adjusted you can see that only 8/22 head coaches in this sample had relevant HC experience at a smaller school before getting their first BCS-level gig. Only 7/22 had any kind of NFL experience (I didn't count Spurrier's stint in the USFL as equivalent to NFL experience.) On the other hand, 22/22 coaches on the list had experience as an assistant coach at the BCS level. I think these numbers establish that working as an assistant coach at a BCS-level program is the most important and the most valued type of experience for a potential head coach.
I broke this down a little further, to find out the extent of the experience of these coaches and how it compares to that of Luke Fickell. I don't think anybody would argue that Fickell isn't younger than most (if not all) on the list or have less overall experience than most on the list. However, in the type of experience that these programs value most when hiring a new coach he seems to fit right in. The median amount of time spent as an assistant for all other coaches on the list is 9 years - which is exactly the amount of time Luke Fickell spent on Jim Tressel's staff at Ohio State. I excluded Joe Paterno from this statistic, since his hiring happened so long ago that it's hard to argue that any rationale that they used then would be applicable today. Also please note that I tallied the number of years for each coach by hand based on their bios. There's a chance I may have miscounted on a few of them and at this point I've proofread all that I care to.
Finally, I broke it down one step further to find the median among coaches whose experience was most like Coach Fickell's - no previous HC experience, no NFL experience of any kind. On this list there were seven other coaches who fall into that category. The median experience among them? 10 years as a BCS-level assistant. Fickell fits right in with this group.
In summary, while Fickell may be young and may lack the overall years of experience that many other top head coaches have, he holds enough of the right kind of experience to deserve the shot he's getting at leading the Ohio State program.
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Rep message sent by Gatorubet:
Response (quoted from the second paragraph after the screenshot in my original post):
Essentially, I made two exclusions and three additions, as explained above. I noted all of them as "Y"s which is probably a bit inconsistent. I thought it best to acknowledge all of the borderline HC experience in the table and then adjust the total with explanations rather than make it look like I was misrepresenting their experience.
Having given it a second look, I can see that should probably be fixed.
Response (quoted from the second paragraph after the screenshot in my original post):
Essentially, I made two exclusions and three additions, as explained above. I noted all of them as "Y"s which is probably a bit inconsistent. I thought it best to acknowledge all of the borderline HC experience in the table and then adjust the total with explanations rather than make it look like I was misrepresenting their experience.
Having given it a second look, I can see that should probably be fixed.
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