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US Open Playoff (revised)

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I apologize for not reading through the entire thread.....

The competition isn't that bad.

Tiger is just that good. Think about MJ and the next player during his reign.

Charles Barkley?
Patrick Ewing?
Hakeem Olajuwon?
Karl Malone?

When you aren't extremely dominate the competition looks much better. When there is a dominate player/team the competiton looks extremely weak.
 
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billmac91;1186479; said:
I apologize for not reading through the entire thread.....

The competition isn't that bad.

Tiger is just that good. Think about MJ and the next player during his reign.

Charles Barkley?
Patrick Ewing?
Hakeem Olajuwon?
Karl Malone?

When you aren't extremely dominate the competition looks much better. When there is a dominate player/team the competiton looks extremely weak.
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I don't think anyone is saying that Tiger is not good. He is perhaps the best golfer we will see ever. The point being raised is that while the total number of players are better than in past generations the number of players who can consistently stand the pressure and win a major is more shallow.

Think of it this way. Put Tiger back in the early 60's through the early 70's (sans Nicklaus) with the same equipment of the time and does anyone believe that at this point he would have 14 majors? I don't think so. He may have (probably) double digit major wins, but the guys of that era would not make it easy. He may have beat them but the current last round debacle (with some exceptions) of Woods beating the players in the last groups by upwards of six strokes would be gone.
 
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Wingate1217;1186537; said:
I don't think anyone is saying that Tiger is not good. He is perhaps the best golfer we will see ever. The point being raised is that while the total number of players are better than in past generations the number of players who can consistently stand the pressure and win a major is more shallow.

Think of it this way. Put Tiger back in the early 60's through the early 70's (sans Nicklaus) with the same equipment of the time and does anyone believe that at this point he would have 14 majors? I don't think so. He may have (probably) double digit major wins, but the guys of that era would not make it easy. He may have beat them but the current last round debacle (with some exceptions) of Woods beating the players in the last groups by upwards of six strokes would be gone.
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I think Tiger would be just as dominate because he dominates the current players with the same equipment.

If you made the entire PGA revert back to non-grooved clubs and 54 degree wedges my money is still on Tiger.

Tiger makes the competition lokk weak. If Tiger didn't exist, Phil Mickelson would be considered one of the best golfers of all time. Too bad for Phil. Tiger is the best player of all time, hands down. The guy is a physical and mental freak. And he still has close to 20 more years to dominate. I could honestly see Tiger making runs at majors well into his 40's.

Hell, Jay Haas, Rayond Floyd, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Fred Funk, Nick Price, and a BOATLOAD of others have.

Tiger is going to shatter the majors record and leave any debate in the dust...
 
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billmac91;1186548; said:
I could honestly see Tiger making runs at majors well into his 40's.

Hell, Jay Haas, Rayond Floyd, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Fred Funk, Nick Price, and a BOATLOAD of others have.

Tiger is going to shatter the majors record and leave any debate in the dust...
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I don't remember Jay Haas, or Fred Funk winning any regular tour major in their 40's. Nick Price was in his late 30's when he won in '94 and Tom Watson was (I believe?) 34 when he won his last in '83. Of the group you mentioned only Floyd and Nicklaus won in their 40's.

Others include Hale Irwin, Payne Stewart, Gary Player, Julius Boros, Vijay Singh and Lee Trevino.

Nicklaus had his kryptonite in Trevino and later in Watson. The point is nobody has routinely stepped up to take him on. Throughout history every great golfer has had their rival. Jones-Hagan, Hogan-Snead-Nelson, Palmer-Nicklaus, etc.....Nobody has stepped up yet against Woods (I thought it may have been Phil but he is brain dead......
 
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Wingate1217;1186589; said:
I don't remember Jay Haas, or Fred Funk winning any regular tour major in their 40's. Nick Price was in his late 30's when he won in '94 and Tom Watson was (I believe?) 34 when he won his last in '83. Of the group you mentioned only Floyd and Nicklaus won in their 40's.

Others include Hale Irwin, Payne Stewart, Gary Player, Julius Boros, Vijay Singh and Lee Trevino.

Nicklaus had his kryptonite in Trevino and later in Watson. The point is nobody has routinely stepped up to take him on. Throughout history every great golfer has had their rival. Jones-Hagan, Hogan-Snead-Nelson, Palmer-Nicklaus, etc.....Nobody has stepped up yet against Woods (I thought it may have been Phil but he is brain dead......
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Jay Haas finished in the top 10 in like 10 straight tournamnets in his late 40's.

Nick Price was competitive in his 40's.

My point isn't necassarily "hey, look at all these 48 year old winning tournaments". It's more of the fact that it can be done. Especially for the best player of all time who is in his early 30's.

Tiger will competitive well into his 40's unless he decides to retire at a ridiculous age. IMO, that is what is great about golf. Youth isn't always an advantage. Short game and mental toughness is what it takes.
 
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Wingate1217;1186343; said:
I never said that guys never blinked. Heck, even Jack has stated that he knew the guys that he could absolutely intimidate. I just believe there are fewer guys now that have the intestinal fortitude than back then. The difference is the big guys on tour then would take up the challenge while (as you referenced) the big guys today never take up the gantlet. As you stated they choke before they even have a chance to choke.....totally with your assessment of Ernie, Phil and company....:)
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Ernie even said on his website, after missing cuts prior to the US Open, that his game was fine but that his head was not. I think he is going through a lot of anguish over having an autistic son and telling the world about it. Must be helluva tough.
 
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NightmaresDad;1186475; said:
I
Suffice it to say - Jack is and will be the Golden Standard for many things besides just playing golf.

In the first 25 years of Jack's professional career, (that would be 100 majors) he finished in the top three 49 times. That's 49 out of 100 in the top three!
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Agreed, Tiger is indeed a fine golfer, certainly someone who would be capable of winning consistently playing under the same rules and conditions as Jack and his peers. There are no flies on winning fourteen majors at any time, but what seperates Jack from Tiger is his (Jack's) top three and top ten finishes. When added to his 18 majors he puts a great deal of distance between himself and Tiger.

I might add that weight and flexibility training were not in vogue in Jack's early years. (Noteable exception being Gary Player) Jack's back problems certainly had an impact on his winning after age 35.

Tiger is fantastic, certainly the premier golfer of this decade and probably the next, but he is not yet on the same tier as Jack for consistent domination of the field.
 
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jimotis4heisman;1186806; said:
yup i know. but, he was what 28?
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You are correct....If interested in the exploits of Mr. Jones this is an excellent book.....

Grand Slam : Bobby Jones, America and the Story of Golf


Robert Tyre "Bobby" Jones Jr. (March 17, 1902 ? December 18, 1971), born in Atlanta, Georgia, was one of the greatest golfers to compete on a national and international level. He participated only as an amateur, primarily on a part-time basis, and chose to retire from competition at age 28.
Explaining his decision to retire, Jones said, "It (championships) is something like a cage. First you are expected to get into it and then you are expected to stay there. But of course, nobody can stay there."[1]
Jones is most famous for his "Grand Slam," consisting of his victory in all four major golf tournaments of his era (the open and amateur championships in both the U.S. & Britain) in a single calendar year (1930), generally considered a unique achievement.
 
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I think if Tiger goes back in Jack's time, that indeed he will have considerably less majors than now, but so would Jack.

I think the total at the end of their careers would probably tally up to be something like 14 for Tiger and 12 for Jack.
 
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ImFrigginFly;1186918; said:
I think if Tiger goes back in Jack's time, that indeed he will have considerably less majors than now, but so would Jack.

I think the total at the end of their careers would probably tally up to be something like 14 for Tiger and 12 for Jack.
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Agreed, however I wasn't arguing Tiger vs. Jack. I am arguing Tiger's current competition vs. Jack's competition when he played with everything being equal (same equipment, same ball, same course set-up, etc.)

Besides Gary Player already has stated that he thinks Jack would beat Tiger head to head the majority of the time.....:biggrin:
 
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I just don't think you can compare Jack and Tiger as far as who is a better golfer. The equipment is so much different, the physical exercise part of the game, the rest of the players. Everything is so much different now than it was back in the mid-60s to mid-70s. If Tiger ends his career with more major victories than Jack, I still could not say that he was a better golfer but I also did not say that Jack was the better golfer. They are very similar but everything else is so much different.
 
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Tonyank;1186941; said:
Tiger is out for the rest of the year :/

Tiger Woods reportedly to miss rest of season - Yahoo! News
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If this is true, they might as well not televise any more golf tournaments because TV ratings will be dismal.

I don't understand how he could have had a stress fracture while getting ready for the U.S. Open. His swing coach said yesterday that Tiger did very very little before he started to play last Thursday. I guess we shall see.
 
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