LitlBuck;1186030; said:
I think the most Jack ever won in a PGA or USGA tourney was around $250K.....
Heck, he made more by playing on the Skins game every year....
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I think the most Jack ever won in a PGA or USGA tourney was around $250K.....
Heck, he made more by playing on the Skins game every year....
mstevmac;1185677; said:
I have to say this. Players playing with Tiger do worse than normal in part because Tiger agitates the crowd with his fist pumping and nonsense. His fans frequently talk and disrupt the concentration of players playing with Tiger.
On the last two holes and the playoff hole, if you replay the broadcast, you will clearly hear people talking out loud, taking pictures and saying things like, "Go Tiger!", from the microphone that is transmitting Mediate's conversation with his caddy. I am referring to those moments when Mediate was setting up his shots and striking the ball. It begins with the morons shouting "in the hole" on par 5 tee shots and continues all the way to the green and its time it stopped.
Quite frankly, great talent or not, I find it instructive when a guy of this ability, who goes ballistic any time anyone in the gallery moves or takes a picture, does not have the good sportsmanship to ask his fans to stop moving and disrupting the concentration of the people that play with him.
I had the opportunity to caddy when Jack Nicklaus played once and to follow him around the course three times. Nicklaus frequently asked people to settle in the gallery so that his opponents had every advantage he did. And, in my mind, that's why Nicklaus will be the greatest golfer ever, even if Tiger wins 100 majors. He was not only a great golfer playing with equipment far below today's standard and at a time of greater competition, he was one of the most decent sportsmen to ever play.
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cincibuck;1185922; said:
Listen, Cinci, if you're going to tell these stories, then be sure to tell the little ones about walking to school in six feet of snow. My Dad always worked that one in there.
"You don't like your McDonald's? Well, did I tell you about how hungry we were when we had to walk to school during the Great Depression in six feet of snow?"
"What do you mean TV is boring? Did I tell you about how we used to huddle around the radio for just a one-hour program after we walked home during the Great Depression in six feet of snow?"
Now, I know what you're thinking. But I was too young to walk to school in the Great Depression. Fine. Then use the Cooper years instead.
"Hey, back to work all of you. No wonder China is catching up to us. Did I ever tell you about the time I had to watch the US Open in six feet of snow during the Great Depression of the Cooper years at Ohio State?"
Just get it right, gramps, okay? We have a tradition to uphold here.
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Steve19;1186186; said:
For comparison purposes I wonder how "THE KING's" stacked up against Tiger's. I am betting Arnold's crowd was more behaved just because it was a different time in golf's past.....
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Wingate1217;1186206; said:
All Tiger has to do is stop the bloody fist pumping crap during a round and tell his fans to shut up and stop fidgeting. If he made a point of this, I think it would disappear. He has such incredible talent and I think this spoils it for me.
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Steve19;1186186; said:
Amen, brother! These guys today shortside themselves all the time because they know they can get it up and down with their 60+ degree square groved wedge. In and before Nicklaus' prime short siding yourself in the US Open meant a bogey or worse the majority of the time.
As for the competition, the names of Player, Palmer, Trevino, Casper, Boros, Watson, Irwin, Nelson (Larry), Peter Thompson and Seve (all have won more than 3 majors) beats the crap out of Mickelson, Singh, Els. And don't give me the crap that Woods has won all the majors. Since Woods first major win the 1997 Masters there has been 46 major tournements. Of that amount Tiger has won 14 times but the rest of best have won:
Els:has won two
Mickelson:three
Singh: three
This leaves 24 events won by nobodies (with apologies to Goosen).
In contrast, Jack won eleven majors, however his peers won during that time span:
Trevino: Four
Palmer: Two
Boros: Two
Player: Three
Thompson:One
Casper:Two
That leaves 21 to be won by nobodies (although Tony Jacklin (2), and Roberto DeVicenzo (won 1, would have been two but he signed an incorrect scorecard at the '68 Masters cannot be called nobodies). In addition Tony Lema ('64 British) was prematurely taken from us much like Payne Stewart during that time.
Jack's top level competition was stiffer and he went onto face Watson, Ballesterous and company later in his career......
I know off the top of my head that jack finished second during this time to (Trevino '68 US Open, '71 US Open, 72 British) and to Palmer in the '64 Masters) With all respect to Mr. Woods, he doesn't have the guy or guys who won't blink when they face him, although the day may eventually arrive but I don't see it from the current cast of characters......
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fourteenandoh
My swing feels like an unfolding lawn chair.
so no one ever blinked when they were 1 back of Jack with 9 holes to go. i find that hard to believe. i wouldn't say that rocco blinked and i also wouldn't say that bob may blinked either. tiger beat those guys. the problem i have with phil and ernie etc is that they can't even get into contention on a regular basis. they choke before they even have a chance to choke.
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I agree in general that Tiger's gallery is a distraction to other golfers, but in this particular instance I thought Rocco had the rowdier and louder fans.
Tiger is not Jack. He is much more emotional.
I learned a lot about Jack at Muirfield one year watching him take off his sweater. It took him over a full minute to fold it - precisely - and stow it in his bag. He is completely methodical in everything he does. Were he not we wouldn't be discussing him. For him it was necessary.
It is no coincidence that golfers in general are methodical and unemotional. For most it is a necessary part of their trade. Many kids who can't control their emotions, their breathing, their very pulse fall by the wayside before they reach the tour. That Tiger can show emotion as he does and continue to play is something of an anomaly.
I would be more critical of Tiger if I thought for a second that the fist pumps were orchestrated to be a distraction. They are not.
As for how he intimidates - the crowd may do it, the fist pumps may do it, his facial expression and overall demeanor may do it. But most of all he intimidates by what he can do with that stick in his hand.
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fourteenandoh;1186302; said:
I never said that guys never blinked. Heck, even Jack has stated that he knew the guys that he could absolutely intimidate. I just believe there are fewer guys now that have the intestinal fortitude than back then. The difference is the big guys on tour then would take up the challenge while (as you referenced) the big guys today never take up the gantlet. As you stated they choke before they even have a chance to choke.....totally with your assessment of Ernie, Phil and company....:)
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Wingate1217;1186343; said:
Ernie and Phil have the misfortune of playing at a time of the best golfer in Earth's history. There may not ever be a player/competitor like him in the next 2000 years.
Put them back in Jack's day and they would have competed just like Arnie, Player, etc...
Just my opinion.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
tiger is more dominant id say, you can match how long it took to get the wins. jack was awesome for two full decades. thats yet to be seen with tiger.
i never saw bobby jones did but i used to know an old timer who swore by the man. talk about something mowed down in its prime.
i never saw bobby jones did but i used to know an old timer who swore by the man. talk about something mowed down in its prime.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Steve19;1186188; said:Listen, Cinci, if you're going to tell these stories, then be sure to tell the little ones about walking to school in six feet of snow. My Dad always worked that one in there.
"You don't like your McDonald's? Well, did I tell you about how hungry we were when we had to walk to school during the Great Depression in six feet of snow?"
"What do you mean TV is boring? Did I tell you about how we used to huddle around the radio for just a one-hour program after we walked home during the Great Depression in six feet of snow?"
Now, I know what you're thinking. But I was too young to walk to school in the Great Depression. Fine. Then use the Cooper years instead.
"Hey, back to work all of you. No wonder China is catching up to us. Did I ever tell you about the time I had to watch the US Open in six feet of snow during the Great Depression of the Cooper years at Ohio State?"
Just get it right, gramps, okay? We have a tradition to uphold here.
Why bother? You try telling today's kids what it was like and they think you're making it up. Did you know about the bear traps on the oval, or about the troll you had to pay to walk by Mirror Lake, or the guy with the hook that grabbed girls from cars parked along Olentangy River Road? No; 'cause you never listen. 'scuse me, it's time for my Metamucil.
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NightmaresDad
Woody Rules!
Steve19;1186186; said:
I'll have to disagree with the first part of your post here, Steve.
Tiger had to back off more than Rocco did, by far - especially the last 4 holes. I agree with what you say about Nicklaus, but he did his fair share of on-the-green celebrating too. He practically killed Doug Sanders after holing the winning putt in the '70 British Open by flinging his putter way up into the air. He also many times quieted the crowd if he holed a big putt before his fellow competitor had holed out.
Suffice it to say - Jack is and will be the Golden Standard for many things besides just playing golf.
Wingate1217;1186226; said:
As far as Jack's competition, yes he faced more "champion" caliber players but a shallower field in each major.
He faced guys that could beat him even if he played at a very high level (say his A- or B+ game). In 1977, he broke the tournament scoring record in two consecutive tournaments, the British Open and the Greensboro (?) and he lost both of them. the first to Watson and the second to Floyd.
You may never see anything like that happen to Tiger.
He had to beat Palmer, Player, Casper. Then later he had to beat Trevino, Miller, Weiskopf. Then he had to beat Watson, Irwin, Ballesteros, Norman.
All of those guys are in the top 20 or so of all time players.
Tiger has to beat Phil, Ernie, and Vijay, Davis, Furyk, and (cough) Sergio.
Of those, Phil is brain-dead when it comes to course management, Ernie has lost it for a big chunk of his career but seems to be coming back, Vijay can't putt at all, Davis is done, Furyk is consistent but can't seem to close like the guys that Nicklaus played against, and Sergio is too busy checking the gallery for his next piece of poontang.
In the first 25 years of Jack's professional career, (that would be 100 majors) he finished in the top three 49 times. That's 49 out of 100 in the top three!
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