Urban F. Meyer (Former OSU, CFB and NFL coach)

[Jagdaddy]

Now here's some news for you. People like me run Ohio State. We're the ones on the board of trustees. We're the ones on the Foundation board. We're the ones who donate at levels to the Presidents Club well beyond what merely constitutes the Buckeye Club minimum so one can buy some season tickets to the foosball. And most importantly, we're the ones running the show in Bricker Hall. And guess what, we're also the ones who constitute the student body. We might have only been 50% of the student body when I was there, but we're pretty much 99.9% of it these days. Jim Rhodes' populist revolution at Ohio State is over. The 24 ACT bums lost. My condolences, Mr. Lebowski; the bums lost.

Summary of tmy deleted misattributed post above that I've now misplaced the language for, I generally agree with ORD that increased selectivity of OSU is positive but think that he's a bit over the top and Romneyesque in disparaging the 24 ACT crowd (74th percentile) and that unless he's richer than he's let on in the past, there's a whiff of small dick yellow corvette to his post.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

People that are "like [you]" in what respect, are the ones who run the University and make up 99.9% of the student body?

People who may like the football or be indifferent to it or hate it but whatever their feelings are towards it don't think that it's the most important part of the university. I think Urban thought he was coming home to a very different Ohio State, and there was some rather severe cognitive dissonance when he was splashed with the reality of his job and where he stood in the grander scheme of things. As I've said before, he can get on board with that or he can choose to leave. From his statement disputing the media report, I hope it's the former. At the very least, and whatever his true feelings are, he's certainly taking a public stance to tamp down the rumors and put forward a positive, united front whatever his ultimate decision might be. And I commend him for that.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Summary of the my deleted misattributed post above that I've now misplaced the language for, I generally agree with ORD that increased selectivity of OSU is positive but think that he's a bit over the top and Romneyesque in disparaging the 24 ACT crowd (74th percentile) and that unless he's richer than he's let on in the past, there's a whiff of small dick yellow corvette to his post.

I'm not disparaging them. I just think that--lacking some severely counterbalancing aspects to their application--that they don't belong at Ohio State. They don't belong at Wisconsin, or Illinois, or Minnesota, or Texas or Washington or a campus of the University of California system either. Ohio funds 12 other public four year universities, and many of those would be a much better fit for them. One of the cruelest ironies of the Jim Rhodes era was the vast thousands of kids who packed up and headed for Ohio State in the 60s and 70s not fully realizing that they had next to no chance of graduating or even making it to their sophomore year. They'd have been much better served had the system steered them to a campus where they could have succeeded. Like Ed Jennings said, Ohio can have an internationally respected research university or it can have an "everyman's university." It can't have both. Ohio made the right decision.

 

[pianobuck46]

I knew it was ORD. Not sure why it came out as you. I probably deleted the wrong brackets with multiquote. I'll fix it.

Many thanks.

 

[Jagdaddy]

I'm not disparaging them. I just think that--lacking some severely counterbalancing aspects to their application--that they don't belong at Ohio State. They don't belong at Wisconsin, or Illinois, or Minnesota, or Texas or Washington or a campus of the University of California system either. Ohio funds 12 other public four year universities, and many of those would be a much better fit for them. One of the cruelest ironies of the Jim Rhodes era was the vast thousands of kids who packed up and headed for Ohio State in the 60s and 70s not fully realizing that they had next to no chance of graduating or even making it to their sophomore year. They'd have been much better served had the system steered them to a campus where they could have succeeded. Like Ed Jennings said, Ohio can have an internationally respected research university or it can have an "everyman's university." It can't have both. Ohio made the right decision.

I agree with all of that. Fawcett's (I believe) famous look to the left and right and at yourself and two of you won't graduate speech probably doesn't highlight a great way to run a university. I started right at the tail end of open admissions, and there were lots of kids in my freshman dorm who we knew weren't going to last more than a quarter or two.

 

[Jagdaddy]

People who may like the football or be indifferent to it or hate it but whatever their feelings are towards it don't think that it's the most important part of the university. I think Urban thought he was coming home to a very different Ohio State, and there was some rather severe cognitive dissonance when he was splashed with the reality of his job and where he stood in the grander scheme of things. As I've said before, he can get on board with that or he can choose to leave. From his statement disputing the media report, I hope it's the former. At the very least, and whatever his true feelings are, he's certainly taking a public stance to tamp down the rumors and put forward a positive, united front whatever his ultimate decision might be. And I commend him for that.

I have a bit of a different hypothesis. Based on Meyer's efforts to build whole people out of his players, I actually don't think that the cognitive dissonance was in not knowing what Ohio State is, although he still may well have overestimated his own and his position's significance (in light of what he's paid, why wouldn't he?) despite that. I think the dissonance was in perceiving himself as a "good" person trying to do the right thing and the reality that he exercised poor judgment at odds with the best interest of his employer and program. Also, when one is attacked harshly and relentlessly (and in one's own mind unfairly) over a period of time, one is likely, even if used to it to a greater degree than most, respond more with fight or flight instinct than rational thought. I think that that's where he was, at least to a degree, back in August and September and he may need a full off season to fully recalibrate, if he can.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I have a bit of a different hypothesis. Based on Meyer's efforts to build whole people out of his players, I actually don't think that the cognitive dissonance was in not knowing what Ohio State is, although he still may well have overestimated his own and his position's significance (in light of what he's paid, why wouldn't he?) despite that. I think the dissonance was in perceiving himself as a "good" person trying to do the right thing and the reality that he exercised poor judgment at odds with the best interest of his employer and program. Also, when one is attacked harshly and relentlessly (and in one's own mind unfairly) over a period of time, one is likely, even if used to it to a greater degree than most, respond more with fight or flight instinct than rational thought. I think that that's where he was, at least to a degree, back in August and September and he may need a full off season to fully recalibrate, if he can.

That's very well put. I think it's a fault of his going back to Florida and his attempts to put people like Hernandez and others onto the right path through prayer circles and dinners with his family. I'm willing to concede that his heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, with what's at stake and the amount of money that he's paid, that's simply not enough. He needs to make the right decisions, not what he perceives as the good decisions. Frankly, I really thought that he'd learned that lesson at Florida, and with his disciplinary actions since arriving, maybe he did and it was just Zach Smith that was his blind spot. Also, I was very impressed with his quick statement shooting down the reports of tension between him and GS and Drake.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I agree with all of that. Fawcett's (I believe) famous look to the left and right and at yourself and two of you won't graduate speech probably doesn't highlight a great way to run a university. I started right at the tail end of open admissions, and there were lots of kids in my freshman dorm who we knew weren't going to last more than a quarter or two.

No. It was a horrible way to run a university. The university was put in a position where it had to choose between acting like a glorified high school to get these kids through and watch the best faculty bolt (which happened to a degree anyway) and the graduate programs disintegrate or shitting these kids out and trying to maintain some semblance as a serious research university until Rhodes and Millett finally left the scene. And the tragic thing is how many of them never ended up getting a college degree because they didn't go to a different state campus that might have been much more receptive to their presence and willing to get them to the finish line.

At the end of it all though, Ohio State was very, very fortunate that the right leadership was on the scene both in the university and the statehouse when the opening came.

 

[dozenmonkeyz]

People who may like the football or be indifferent to it or hate it but whatever their feelings are towards it don't think that it's the most important part of the university. I think Urban thought he was coming home to a very different Ohio State, and there was some rather severe cognitive dissonance when he was splashed with the reality of his job and where he stood in the grander scheme of things. As I've said before, he can get on board with that or he can choose to leave. From his statement disputing the media report, I hope it's the former. At the very least, and whatever his true feelings are, he's certainly taking a public stance to tamp down the rumors and put forward a positive, united front whatever his ultimate decision might be. And I commend him for that.

Where do you come up with these ridiculous assumptions on UM's mindset? So far I've never heard him make any statements regarding the academics or administration of the university. And what do any of your comments on the ACT standards, Drake, or university history have to do with his future here? Most reports have stated Drake was the lone voice pushing for more punishment to UM - seems to me like maybe he's the one overreaching from his post. Please provide 1 bit of evidence UM feels he should 'run the university'.

The football tail certainly doesn't wag the dog, as you love to say. But, man, you seem awful paranoid that the fragile image of OSU academics is gonna be shattered if Meyer is pissed that his boss fucked him over. Guess what? It's not. The research money machine will keep rolling along regardless of who's coaching football or any other sport. Likewise, the football program will continue to be the largest OSU exposure to the mass public regardless of the admission standards. OSU will never be Bama. OSU will never be Harvard, or even Stanford for that matter. No reason we can't excel at academics/research while ALSO running a top tier football factory.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Where do you come up with these ridiculous assumptions on UM's mindset? So far I've never heard him make any statements regarding the academics or administration of the university. And what do any of your comments on the ACT standards, Drake, or university history have to do with his future here? Most reports have stated Drake was the lone voice pushing for more punishment to UM - seems to me like maybe he's the one overreaching from his post. Please provide 1 bit of evidence UM feels he should 'run the university'.

The football tail certainly doesn't wag the dog, as you love to say. But, man, you seem awful paranoid that the fragile image of OSU academics is gonna be shattered if Meyer is pissed that his boss fucked him over. Guess what? It's not. The research money machine will keep rolling along regardless of who's coaching football or any other sport. Likewise, the football program will continue to be the largest OSU exposure to the mass public regardless of the admission standards. OSU will never be Bama. OSU will never be Harvard, or even Stanford for that matter. No reason we can't excel at academics/research while ALSO running a top tier football factory.

No, I don't think that Meyer or any other football coach can shatter Ohio State's academics. Quite the opposite. And while I don't like the football factory connotation, I have no problems with Ohio State's ability to be great at both. I am a football fan...definitely, secondary to being an Ohio State fan....but I am a football fan. I enjoy the program and only expect that it doesn't give the university a public relations black eye. That's my only requirement. I don't expect Ohio State to be Harvard. I expect it to be the best public, flagship, research university that it can be. That's not incompatible with big time football, but it is far more important to the state of Ohio and its taxpayers than big time football. As for Drake, one trustee came out and said that Drake was the prominent voice pushing for punishment. I don't believe--and correct me if I'm wrong--that it's ever been reported by anyone in a position to really know that Drake was the only voice pushing for punishment.

As to how it all ties into Meyer, I think that he overestimated his position. Given his salary, the public adulation that a successful Ohio State football coach gets and just plain old football coach arrogance, that's hardly a far out consideration. When he was confronted with the reality that the powers that be don't consider him bigger than the university, he's had a hard time dealing with it.

 

[dozenmonkeyz]

No, I don't think that Meyer or any other football coach can shatter Ohio State's academics. Quite the opposite. And while I don't like the football factory connotation, I have no problems with Ohio State's ability to be great at both. I am a football fan...definitely, secondary to being an Ohio State fan....but I am a football fan. I enjoy the program and only expect that it doesn't give the university a public relations black eye. That's my only requirement. I don't expect Ohio State to be Harvard. I expect it to be the best public, flagship, research university that it can be. That's not incompatible with big time football, but it is far more important to the state of Ohio and its taxpayers than big time football. As for Drake, one trustee came out and said that Drake was the prominent voice pushing for punishment. I don't believe--and correct me if I'm wrong--that it's ever been reported by anyone in a position to really know that Drake was the only voice pushing for punishment.

As to how it all ties into Meyer, I think that he overestimated his position. Given his salary, the public adulation that a successful Ohio State football coach gets and just plain old football coach arrogance, that's hardly a far out consideration. When he was confronted with the reality that the powers that be don't consider him bigger than the university, he's had a hard time dealing with it.

Seems like quite the stretch to assume that’s Myer’s position. The more simple guess is that he’s pissed that his boss fucked him over when he didn’t need to.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Seems like quite the stretch to assume that’s Myer’s position. The more simple guess is that he’s pissed that his boss fucked him over when he didn’t need to.

Perhaps. That's the simplest explanation, and the simplest explanation is usually correct. You're of course coming from the perspective that he shouldn't have been punished in any way and that any punishment at all is being "fucked over." I'm coming at it from a different angle. As Drake said at the press conference the mere act of keeping on a toxic fuck up like Zach Smith on staff was enough to warrant the suspension, and I think that is exactly what he was suspended for.

 

[zincfinger]

[The people I mentioned who are like me, who control the University, and who were 50% of the student population when I was there but are 99.9% of the student population today are] people who may like the football or be indifferent to it or hate it but whatever their feelings are towards it don't think that it's the most important part of the university.

I would suggest there are very few people who think the football program is the most important part of the University, whether you're talking about people on this board, students today, students 30 years ago, or any other interested group. Of course there are lots of people who follow the football program much more closely than they follow the granting of research proposals, but that's not the same thing as believing that football is more important than research.

 

[dozenmonkeyz]

Perhaps. That's the simplest explanation, and the simplest explanation is usually correct. You're of course coming from the perspective that he shouldn't have been punished in any way and that any punishment at all is being "fucked over." I'm coming at it from a different angle. As Drake said at the press conference the mere act of keeping on a toxic fuck up like Zach Smith on staff was enough to warrant the suspension, and I think that is exactly what he was suspended for.

No, my perspective is that Drake actively pursued even harsher penalties (reportedly against the majority of the Board) for an instance that was essentially a media hackjob There were a multitude of other avenues to take that would have better served the university, IMO. And frankly, if my boss acted that way toward me I'd sure as fuck feel some kinda way about it.

To be clear, I'm not saying Meyer keeping ZS wasn't a mistake but the magnitude of the issue was ridiculously blown out of proportion. My personal thoughts are that the leave of absence was plenty of punishment.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I would suggest there are very few people who think the football program is the most important part of the University, whether you're talking about students today, students 30 years ago, or any other interested group. Of course there are lots of people who follow the football program much more closely than they follow the granting of research proposals, but that's not the same thing as believing that football is more important than research.

I agree with that, but that's students, and I certainly am not incapable of overstating my position and then coming back to rethink it. I, however, do think the further you get out of the university community, there is a very vocal element of our fanbase around Ohio that is--how do I put it--resentful or maybe distrustful is a better word of the university at large viewing it as a threat to the sanctity of the football program. If I'm too quick to take a hard line stance against the football coach or individual players when I think their transgressions have crossed the "don't embarrass the university line," then I certainly think you also have to recognize the significant element in our fanbase that would burn down Bricker Hall before they'd see anything negative happen to football.