U.S. Men's National Soccer (Official Thread)

[AKAK]

if people thought Bob's play-style was too defensive.

Not gonna have that problem anymore.

 

[TooTall]

I wouldn't have fired Bradley. I think that all throughout his career as coach we've put in good performances when it's mattered, and been unimpressive otherwise. People were calling for his head after the first few qualifiers, but we finished strong and ended up qualifying comfortably. People were [censored]ed after the first two games of the Confed Cup, and that ended up being a great success. People questioned him after we dropped the Gold Cup to Mexico 5-0, and then a year later we won our World Cup group for the first time in our history. Yeah, this Gold Cup didn't have a great ending, but we're at the start of a messy rebuilding period that I think will end up yielding a few bad results whether our coach is Bradley or Mourinho. But Bob knows the players, he knows the system, he gets the strategy, and he's a good tactician. I honestly would have trusted him to guide us through this next cycle.

As for who I'd have hired, it depends on the money situation. Luring Hiddink from Turkey would have been my first choice, I think. Most of the other names being tossed around are pretty horrible. An Italian manager (Lippi/Ancelotti) would actually fit our squad nicely, but they're both likely too expensive and if people thought Bob's play-style was too defensive, they'd probably commit seppuku with an Italian at the helm.

Sorry, but who gives a [Mark May] about the FIFA rankings? They are absolutely meaningless and well-known in the soccer world for being a complete joke. You know that we were ranked #4 in the world before the 2006 World Cup? The one we didn't win a game in? Hey, maybe we should rehire Arena.

And who cares if we didn't win CONCACAF's joke of a money grab tournament? We're in a transitional period, we had very bad injuries, and Mexico are resurgent right now. Lose the Gold Cup now, easily qualify later, and I'm happy.

And what's wrong with Bradley's player selection and formation choices? To me he was doing his best with some slim pickings. Ultimately I think we need to acknowledge that the US talent pool has almost no depth, and in some positions (FB and striker) no talent, and no coach is going to be able to change that, only try to minimize the damage.

I threw out FIFA Rankings along with that Mickey Mouse Tournament, that we couldn't even win. Rankings may not mean much, but they speak volumes when trying to compare our national squad to other national squads when they aren't out on the field. Sorry, Bob Bradley just didn't cut it. Truth hurts.

 

[TDG]

Well, I guess you're right that he doesn't cut it, if you judge him by meaningless start-of-the-cycle tournaments and FIFA rankings. Personally, what's important to me is dominance in qualifying good performances in the World Cup, and carefully shepherding the next generation of players in. By that measuring stick, I believe he's been a success. And certainly not deserving of being backstabbed by the federation in this manner.

 

[OH10]

I just thought Bradley had become tired and predictable. He allowed himself to grow loyal to a major fault to guys that don't belong on the roster (Bornstein for example).

It wasn't his fault Cherundolo couldn't finish the final. Things may have been different. But it is his fault that this team's identity became either giving up quick easy goals at the start of matches or blowing leads later on. Some of that HAS to be on him.

 

[jlb1705]

Well, I guess you're right that he doesn't cut it, if you judge him by meaningless start-of-the-cycle tournaments and FIFA rankings. Personally, what's important to me is dominance in qualifying good performances in the World Cup, and carefully shepherding the next generation of players in. By that measuring stick, I believe he's been a success. And certainly not deserving of being backstabbed by the federation in this manner.

Dominance in qualifying should be considered an expectation, not a goal and to me it's importance in evaluating the manager's performance can be dismissed just as easily as performance in start-of-cycle tournaments. Except for Mexico, there is usually not a decent side in the CONCACAF bunch.

 

[jlb1705]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/30/klinsmann/index.html

A look at Klinsmann's pros & cons from SI.com.

 

[DaBears]

Bob wasn't terrible, but there is a reason why every other country in the world changes managers every cycle. The team gets stagnant if you don't change, and the US needed a change. The lack of talent and depth is by far the biggest issue, but this change is definitely needed.

 

[AKAK]

I wouldn't have fired Bradley. I think that all throughout his career as coach we've put in good performances when it's mattered, and been unimpressive otherwise. People were calling for his head after the first few qualifiers, but we finished strong and ended up qualifying comfortably. People were pissed after the first two games of the Confed Cup, and that ended up being a great success. People questioned him after we dropped the Gold Cup to Mexico 5-0, and then a year later we won our World Cup group for the first time in our history. Yeah, this Gold Cup didn't have a great ending, but we're at the start of a messy rebuilding period that I think will end up yielding a few bad results whether our coach is Bradley or Mourinho. But Bob knows the players, he knows the system, he gets the strategy, and he's a good tactician. I honestly would have trusted him to guide us through this next cycle.

As for who I'd have hired, it depends on the money situation. Luring Hiddink from Turkey would have been my first choice, I think. Most of the other names being tossed around are pretty horrible. An Italian manager (Lippi/Ancelotti) would actually fit our squad nicely, but they're both likely too expensive and if people thought Bob's play-style was too defensive, they'd probably commit seppuku with an Italian at the helm.

Sorry, but who gives a shit about the FIFA rankings? They are absolutely meaningless and well-known in the soccer world for being a complete joke. You know that we were ranked #4 in the world before the 2006 World Cup? The one we didn't win a game in? Hey, maybe we should rehire Arena.

And who cares if we didn't win CONCACAF's joke of a money grab tournament? We're in a transitional period, we had very bad injuries, and Mexico are resurgent right now. Lose the Gold Cup now, easily qualify later, and I'm happy.

And what's wrong with Bradley's player selection and formation choices? To me he was doing his best with some slim pickings. Ultimately I think we need to acknowledge that the US talent pool has almost no depth, and in some positions (FB and striker) no talent, and no coach is going to be able to change that, only try to minimize the damage.

First I'll go back to the post I made in '08....

The primary issue with the National team is that Steve Sampson is a douchebag.

No, that's not a typo.

He's the Ty Willingham of soccer.

Seriously though...

While I agree with a lot of the things you guys have said, there really is a hangover from the Sampson Era...

Nothing against the Cobi Jones's of the world... but... if Sampson could have done it, he would have put 10 MF's out there and the GK.

And, all of these things are double edged swords... though...

And not to rag on any one player (I think Cobi Jones was perfectly good... actually) but what you get is a trickle down effect... Sampson played "his" guys, who weren't always the best guys... but then those guys get the bulk of the experience... and... then you've got talented guys who don't get to play and get that experience.

US players playing in European clubs are the same way... its good that they get to play at that level... but... jsut as the European clubs have the same issue, its harder for them to devote time to the National Team... say compared to MLS players who are "more available"-- and as such I think that's why the US did better before they had lots of guys playing in Europe. (And simlilar to why a team like Ivory Coast can do well... let them learn to play, add a Drogba, and wham, you can beat people).

At any rate... Sampson aside, a lot of the growing pains are part of this conversion to really being a professional national team. (I was disappointed Klinsmann turned down the job, felt like he could have helped that along having had a good perspective on that from his career... )

Also, yeah Barbados? Umm... yeah, that's meaningless... that's not a team...at all...

I still believe this mostly... (and, at the time I still hated Steve Sampson)...

Also, I think, honestly Bradley was a good guy for a cycle. (And I hope Kilnsmann is successful and transformative enough to go 2 because he got a late start). Also, I'm not going to argue that he got a shitty deal by getting canned a year in... certainly not the best situation.

Having said that, I think the criticism of Klinsmann based on the Bayern stint probably isn't any more fair than criticising Bradley for the iffy showings post WC and going into the gold cup... sometimes it takes time to change a culture, maybe Bradley was trying to do that, maybe he wasn't.

Now, having said that, the recurring theme I see here is the lack of depth of talent of the US player pool. Not sure I agree with that, but, if that is indeed the issue, a guy like Klinsmann is the kind fo guy, programatically that you want.

See my note above about balancing guys playing in Eurpope and limited time to play for the National team or train in the US. You get stuck in the middle sometimes, and Bradley's answer in some cases (Feilhieber) was to have him come to play in MLS (from The Netherlands, I think) which is fine... to some degree but you need to have both. And I think Kilnsmann, with his depth of experince as a player can help integrate the European team guys and the US team guys. A bit ago in this thread, I think someone had mentioned that Donovan was the best player in US National Team history, which got me thinking, "what about Claudio Reyna?" and to be fair, it is probably Donovan, but, shoud have/could have been Reyna. But, I remember him just being on a different page with everyone else a lot of the time when he was coming back from Scotland/England to play with the National team. (Injuries had some to do with it to be sure).

So, yeah, there's about to be a divergence of philosophy, and in the days and weeks to come, I think we'll see Klinsmann add assistants that can help with tactics while he builds the program and evaluates the talent pool. And helps to get more production from that pool.

Anyway, long story short, personally, I love it. But I'm biased, Klinsmann was my favorite player when I was a kid... I wanted to play like he did, and at that time never did I imagine he could be this involved in US soccer. Thanks to Bob Bradley and best of luck to him. Onward.

 

[Mac]

I'd love to see this lineup

GK - Howard
D - Cherundolo
D - Bocanegra
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
M - Donovan
M - Dempsey
M - Edu
M - Adu/Rogers/_____?
F - Altidore
S - Adu/Agudelo/Davies

IMO, Adu proved that he needs to see the field this summer. Altidore when healthy, is a threat. If we can get Charlie Davies healthy again, and in top shape, and get back to how he was before his accident, he's another threat.

We also need to find one maybe two more SOLID backs to solidify the back line. Howard was left out to dry way too many times this summer and last in the WC. Especially in the latest game against Mexico, after being up 2 nil, there's absolutely NO WAY you should lose 4-2.

I'm interested in seeing what formation we'll have here August against Mexico

 

[WolverineMike]

We're probably going to see some wacky lineups in the next few matches while Klinsmann figures out what he's got. I for one am excited about the change, but I also have high expectations that I don't know if they can be filled.

 

[CHU]

When Holden gets healthy, he should be back in there.

I'd like to see Tim Chandler get some more shots to prove his worth.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

I'd love to see this lineup

GK - Howard
D - Cherundolo
D - Bocanegra
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
M - Donovan
M - Dempsey
M - Edu
M - Adu/Rogers/_____?
F - Altidore
S - Adu/Agudelo/Davies

IMO, Adu proved that he needs to see the field this summer. Altidore when healthy, is a threat. If we can get Charlie Davies healthy again, and in top shape, and get back to how he was before his accident, he's another threat.

We also need to find one maybe two more SOLID backs to solidify the back line. Howard was left out to dry way too many times this summer and last in the WC. Especially in the latest game against Mexico, after being up 2 nil, there's absolutely NO WAY you should lose 4-2.

I'm interested in seeing what formation we'll have here August against Mexico

I am really hoping that Michael Bradley is able to get some solid minutes with Aston Villa this season, I still think he is one of the best US players but he needs to get playing time with his club to improve.

I was also very impressed with Benny Feilhaber in the limited minutes that he played in the World Cup. I heard that he wasn't on the CONCACAF roster because of an injury, so I'm hopeful that he returns to the team.

 

[ochre]

I am really hoping that Michael Bradley is able to get some solid minutes with Aston Villa this season, I still think he is one of the best US players but he needs to get playing time with his club to improve.

I was also very impressed with Benny Feilhaber in the limited minutes that he played in the World Cup. I heard that he wasn't on the CONCACAF roster because of an injury, so I'm hopeful that he returns to the team.

Pretty sure Aston Villa returned Bradley.

 

[jlb1705]

With the way Bradley has performed over the last year since leaving South Africa, he has a way to go before he's even suited to provide depth to this squad. My hopes for him are that he's able to find a way to make himself useful again and adjust to having to impress somebody other than his dad.

 

[TooTall]

I'd love to see this lineup

GK - Howard
D - Cherundolo
D - Bocanegra
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
D - Spector/Lichaj/_____?
M - Donovan
M - Dempsey
M - Edu
M - Adu/Rogers/_____?
F - Altidore
S - Adu/Agudelo/Davies

IMO, Adu proved that he needs to see the field this summer. Altidore when healthy, is a threat. If we can get Charlie Davies healthy again, and in top shape, and get back to how he was before his accident, he's another threat.

We also need to find one maybe two more SOLID backs to solidify the back line. Howard was left out to dry way too many times this summer and last in the WC. Especially in the latest game against Mexico, after being up 2 nil, there's absolutely NO WAY you should lose 4-2.

I'm interested in seeing what formation we'll have here August against Mexico

Only if Rodgers plays like he actually wants to be on the National team. He's been kind of a dud in Columbus, although there was a spark when they took on RSL. Who knows, maybe this switch has reignited his hunger.