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ttun Shenanigans and Arguments (2016 official thread)

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Jaxbuck said:
Historical comparisons are never exact but in many ways Carr was the tsun equivalent of Earl. Both took over the machine that Bo/Woody had created and had a good run for a while but at the end things were falling apart. Both consistently did less with some pretty remarkable talent.

Keeping that line of thinking going then, the incredibly ironic part is you could point to Cooper as the the reason why OSU was ultimately more successful than tsun post Woody/Bo. The argument can be made he was the bridge to Tressel and Urban by way of the success he (mostly) had whereas tsun has made a succession of errors and may or may not be on their way back up.

It does reinforce my belief that any moderately blue blooded football program is one good hire away from relevance. This must be true because the opposite is true; even the blue blooded program are one bad hire away from mediocrity.
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I totally agree with that last paragraph. Look at Alabama. They were struggling until Saban showed up. Texas is another school that would do well with a great coach. Urban or Saban would tear it up at Texas. USC would be back up there if they find a competent coach. ND has the resources but Willingham sent that program back 50 years according to their fan base.

The jury is still out on Harbaugh. I expect a good year this year, but next year is going to show what he is made of. Michigan loses a lot of players and the 2014/2015 recruiting classes weren't great in terms of talent and numbers. Hoke didn't do a great job in terms of recruiting difference makers at the skill positions as well. I honestly thought Harbaugh would recruit better than he has at this point, but who the hell knows.
 
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WolverineMike said:
He had a top 5 class last year and will probably finish with a top 5 class this year. How exactly did you expect him to recruit better?
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meh. no team in the top 36 had a bigger class last year.

um signed the most recruits in the top 11, took the most 3-stars in the top 11, and had the worst player average in the top 11. as such, i'd say the real ranking is 12th. i guess it depends on whether you prefer quantity or quality.

but harbaugh did take 8 players ranked 695th or lower, so he's got that going for him.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
meh. no team in the top 36 had a bigger class last year.

um signed the most recruits in the top 11, took the most 3-stars in the top 11, and had the worst player average in the top 11. as such, i'd say the real ranking is 12th. i guess it depends on whether you prefer quantity or quality.

but harbaugh did take 8 players ranked 695th or lower, so he's got that going for him.
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Exactly...a class heavy on quantity, "meh" on quality. IIRC, that Rashan Gary lady was the only 5*...

I agree with Zwem...next year we'll really see what he's made of. Last year they glided through a cupcake schedule, losing to the only really good teams they played while spanking a terrible florida team with zero offense. This year's scheduke is easy again outside of us and sparty...but he has a lot returning. If they can get even marginally competent qb play, they absolutely should win 10 games again. Next year we'll start seeing more of his recruits. People talk up his work at stanford, but his only really outstanding year was with a generational qb. He walked into a pretty talented team in SF that had been the victim of some horrific coaching prior to bis arrival. Once the talent there started to be purged, he fell to 8-8. I tend to think his actual coaching ability is a bit overrated, and would never put him in the same zip code as Urban and Saban.
 
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NFBuck said:
Exactly...a class heavy on quantity, "meh" on quality. IIRC, that Rashan Gary lady was the only 5*...
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Michigan fans like to say: "We recruit as well as Ohio State, we just go after different players."

Not true in general. In the class of 2017, the only Michigan recruit who is "equal but different" would be QB Dylan McCaffrey, who didn't fit Ohio State's offense and wasn't recruited by the Buckeyes.

Ohio State specifically passed on at least four 2017 Michigan verbals: OL Joel Honigford; DL Luiji Vilain; DE James Hudson; and DE Corey Malone-Hatcher. The same can be said for recent Michigan de-commit DT Aubrey Solomon.

The other 13 recruits in Michigan's class of 2017 are clearly not Ohio State material. I mean not even close.

I'd be willing to bet that Michigan would take 8-12 of the verbals from Ohio State's class of 2017. Like tomorrow.

This is nothing new for Michigan. For years they have recruited well according to the recruiting web sites, but they have largely signed players who were passed over by Ohio State (and Alabama and Florida State and LSU and Clemson, etc.). There's a reason why Michigan is 2-13 in The Game this century, and that reason is a huge talent gap compared to Ohio State. Ignore recruiting ratings - look at who's being recruited by whom.

Harbaugh has done nothing to close that talent gap. He's snagged a couple of potential impact players and a whole lot of roster filler. You don't win big with lots of high-three, low-four star players. You win big with impact players. Harbaugh's simply not bringing in enough impact players to compete with Ohio State.

The only reason that the talent gap is somewhat narrower in 2016 is that Michigan has a ton of seniors and Ohio State lost nine players early to the NFL. Ohio State still has an overall talent edge over Michigan, but Michigan is much more experienced everywhere but quarterback. The 2016 Game could be interesting. Could be. But if Ohio State's young talent gels early in the season, then it will probably be another multi-touchdown victory for the Buckeyes. Because talent wins.

And Ohio State is re-loading at an historic pace. Harbaugh will have to do incredible things just to maintain the current talent gap with Ohio State, much less begin to close it. I just don't see it happening.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
meh. no team in the top 36 had a bigger class last year.

um signed the most recruits in the top 11, took the most 3-stars in the top 11, and had the worst player average in the top 11. as such, i'd say the real ranking is 12th. i guess it depends on whether you prefer quantity or quality.

but harbaugh did take 8 players ranked 695th or lower, so he's got that going for him.
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DFBIA said:
get
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zwem said:
I totally agree with that last paragraph. Look at Alabama. They were struggling until Saban showed up. Texas is another school that would do well with a great coach. Urban or Saban would tear it up at Texas. USC would be back up there if they find a competent coach. ND has the resources but Willingham sent that program back 50 years according to their fan base.

The jury is still out on Harbaugh. I expect a good year this year, but next year is going to show what he is made of. Michigan loses a lot of players and the 2014/2015 recruiting classes weren't great in terms of talent and numbers. Hoke didn't do a great job in terms of recruiting difference makers at the skill positions as well. I honestly thought Harbaugh would recruit better than he has at this point, but who the hell knows.
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I know the '16 schedule is favorable but I am still amazed at all the people taking a "good year" as a given with the glaring question mark at QB.

If the roles were reversed (and I thank my own personal invisible man they are not) I would be on here telling people to slow their roll every day.It is just too critical a position given the lack of playmakers anywhere else.

For example, I felt the hype going into the 2008 season for OSU was off the charts for very similar reasons I feel it is off the charts for tsun this year. Put the obvious QB concern aside, the other big logic fallacy I see is the expected "peak" from a bunch of SR's that were all JR starters last year. It just doesn't work like that across the board. What you see at this point in their careers is what you get (by and large). You get those kind of guys who have underperformed their entire time who have a breakout SR season but whole units of guys who have been starters don't get light years better from JR to SR year.

It's the same OL as last year with the same RB's as last year which means any halfway decent defensive team can take the run away anytime they want to. It will be worse in'16 if there isn't a QB completing 65+% of his passes to keep them honest. Receivers are solid route runners and all but again, the OL struggles at pass pro and if the QB should happen to be a low completion % type and/or TO prone then the tsun offense is going to be proper fucked.

If Harbaugh can manage to get a year like Ruddock had in '15 out of Speight/O'Korn/Suga Shane then I'm wrong. I'm willing to take that bet because it doesn't seem like anyone up north or any pre season prognostications have even considered the fact the QB play might not be exactly what it was last year. When you look at what Harbaugh had to work with in Ruddock (as in what Ruddock had proven on the field prior to'15) vs these ass clowns he has to work with in '16 it gets pretty hard to believe there isn't even a little bit of a concern or someone asking the question of "what if the QB's suck?"
 
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