Transgendered decathlete (formerly known as Bruce) Caitlyn Jenner

[MililaniBuckeye]

When I said, "What's next, being expected to be more accepting of pedophiles?", that was not a direct comparison between transgenderism and pedophilia, but rather a question of whether fringe wackos will try to force society eventually accept yet another heretofore taboo. Keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago that some, if not many, had age-of-consent as low as 13 years old. Not more than a generation ago being a true tranny (actual sex-changed person) was not much better--if better at all--than a NAMBLA freak. Those of you that are over 35 years old and may remember the start of the pro-gay movement in the early- to mid-80s, when it was unfathomable that society would ever get to the point that transsexuals would in any way be considered as normal. So, any idea that there could never eventually be a movement to unvilify (if that's a word) an adult's physical attraction to underage individuals, by using the argument that since other previous sexual social taboos (homosexuality, transgenderism) are none gone then so should that, is misguided and short-sighted.

 

[OH10]

Former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry: Being transgender is a ‘mental disorder . . . biologically impossible’

Counterpoint

 

[OH10]

When I said, "What's next, being expected to be more accepting of pedophiles?", that was not a direct comparison between transgenderism and pedophilia, but rather a question of whether fringe wackos will try to force society eventually accept yet another heretofore taboo. Keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago that some, if not many, had age-of-consent as low as 13 years old. Not more than a generation ago being a true tranny (actual sex-changed person) was not much better--if better at all--than a NAMBLA freak. Those of you that are over 35 years old and may remember the start of the pro-gay movement in the early- to mid-80s, when it was unfathomable that society would ever get to the point that transsexuals would in any way be considered as normal. So, any idea that there could never eventually be a movement to unvilify (if that's a word) an adult's physical attraction to underage individuals, by using the argument that since other previous sexual social taboos (homosexuality, transgenderism) are none gone then so should that, is misguided and short-sighted.

Now, you're making a comparison. You're saying that acceptance of transgender individuals could lead to acceptance of pedophiles. And that's a terrible slippery slope argument designed to cause people to fear accepting transgender individuals.

Pedophiles victimize young people. In the worst imaginable sense. Bringing it up in this context is, quite frankly, incredibly stupid.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Counterpoint

Uh, first of all I'm probably going to have to answer why I, on a military work computer, clicked a link to transadvocate.com.

Second, the site name itself shows that it has it's own clear and biased agenda. So, right off the bat your "counterpoint" has no point at all.

 

[OH10]

It's a solid synopsis overall, though there are some whoppers like this, particularly the opening lineThat's the type of thing that is gaining traction and which concerns me, especially as schools will almost certainly have to take steps to be respectful and accomodating.

Instead of being respectful and accommodating, we should do the.... opposite? Which is?

 

[jwinslow]

Here's a hypothetical that will help create a [Mark May]storm--I did not think of this on my own, but it was very provoking.

If a black man or woman began undergoing treatments to lighten the pigment of their skin because he or she identified more as White and they felt they were trapped in a Black person's body, this would be considered horrible by many and the larger culture/society would be blamed for perpetuating such thoughts. Yet, when it comes to a case like Jenner, this issue is never raised--i.e. the culture/society isn't blamed for perpetuating the thoughts that led him to seek a switch.

So, what's the difference? Especially in light of race being much more of a social construction than sex/gender?

 

[OH10]

Uh, first of all I'm probably going to have to answer why I, on a military work computer, clicked a link to transadvocate.com.

Second, the site name itself shows that it has it's own clear and biased agenda. So, right off the bat your "counterpoint" has no point at all.

Did you read it?

The doctor you cited also contends that homosexuality is a choice and actively advocates against abortion. Which is fine and his right. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his own biases.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Here's a hypothetical that will help create a [Mark May]storm--I did not think of this on my own, but it was very provoking.

If a black man or woman began undergoing treatments to lighten the pigment of their skin because he or she identified more as White and they felt they were trapped in a Black person's body, this would be considered horrible by many and the larger culture/society would be blamed for perpetuating such thoughts. Yet, when it comes to a case like Jenner, this issue is never raised--i.e. the culture/society isn't blamed for perpetuating the thoughts that led him to seek a switch.

So, what's the difference? Especially in light of race being much more of a social construction than sex/gender?

As long as he stops looting 7/11's and join @Jaxbuck in looting the nearest Ikea, it's cool by me. Maybe trade in the FUBU for J. Crew (Is that what white people wear these days?) but that's optional.

 

[jwinslow]

Instead of being respectful and accommodating, we should do the.... opposite? Which is?

My main objection was to the movement that gender is unknown or at least debatable and that entering the school system. I probably worded that poorly in my last line. I think that as people they need to be supported and protected but how do you avoid causing issues in the opposite direction while doing so? I don't envy the already difficult task of employment as an educator (or administrator).

I think it would be much better to save that for adulthood but I do not think that's going to be possible.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Now, you're making a comparison. You're saying that acceptance of transgender individuals could lead to acceptance of pedophiles. And that's a terrible slippery slope argument designed to cause people to fear accepting transgender individuals.

Pedophiles victimize young people. In the worst imaginable sense. Bringing it up in this context is, quite frankly, incredibly stupid.

JFC, learn how to read. I said it could give ammo to furthest-edge fringe groups (such as NAMBLA) to be more brazen and come out to further their own cause.

 

[jwinslow]

As long as he stops looting 7/11's and join @Jaxbuck in looting the nearest Ikea, it's cool by me.

I'm not sure Jax's appearance helps with the rebranding.

 

[buckeyegrad]

Did you read it?

The doctor you cited also contends that homosexuality is a choice and actively advocates against abortion. Which is fine and his right. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his own biases.

It's funny that you cite that, as I thought the immediate use of such ad hominem attacks detracted greatly from the counter-argument being made; but, that's my normal reaction to those who seek first to discredit the person making an assertion rather than sticking with the assertion.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Did you read it?

The doctor you cited also contends that homosexuality is a choice and actively advocates against abortion. Which is fine and his right. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his own biases.

The site is blocked by military web filters, so no I didn't. Again, I have no need to because as I said the site is clearly nothing but pro-transgender so it can't be unbiased.

 

[OH10]

It's funny that you cite that, as I thought the immediate use of such ad hominem attacks detracted greatly from the counter-argument being made; but, that's my normal reaction to those who seek first to discredit the person making an assertion rather than sticking with the assertion.

The assertion isn't universally accepted. I presented a counterargument with citations to opposing medical view points. I'll let people smarter than myself sort that out.

At the end of the day, transgender people live their lives as they choose to live them. And (for whatever reason) people, who are unaffected by their existence, will ridicule them for it.

 

[Onebuckfan]

I only ridicule publicity whores...ESPN is just mad their wasn't a BruceJenner "The DECISION"..I am taking my talents to the female gender..