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The Walking Dead (Official Thread)

I hope they're going to explain what startef the fire that Tyrese noticed. Those walkers were clearly singed. What the fuck? How does a walker stop burning once it catches fire? It's not like they're going to stop, drop, and roll.

They were just flame broiled walkers :lol: Someone on another board pointed out that the crispy walkers could have just been people or dead people that hadn't turned yet and then became walkers after the fire. It's unlikely, especially if the fire did happen to be Beth and Daryl's shack that went up in flames.

The other theory is that walkers do still feel some pain, so if one caught on fire maybe it falls on the ground and unknowingly puts the fire out as it's flailing around on the ground? That's the only explanation I've seen.
 
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C'mon. That's absurd. We've seen walkers waffle their own faces thru a chain link fence to get at people. They were still smoking and we didn't see any rain so that's not it.

The logical explanation is that the writers thought it would look cool so they included them without any hesitation or respect for the viewer or continuity.

I get the wanting this show to be better, but the long winded explanations people (not you) come up with to defend this pile of shit is becoming ridiculous.
 
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So I've read everyone's comments and there are some good points, but I am just going to go on my own diatribe after having watched it twice now. I personally think this was the best episode of The Walking Dead I have seen. Not just because of the shock value of a 9 year old girl killing her younger sister, but in how incredible I thought the cinematography and plot development was. That first scene was incredible...girl laughing in the front yard playing with a zombie but you realize that right before the clip ends. I also thought the whole underlying analogies to the relationship Carroll has with the girls and how it relates to Sophia ("not a mean bone in her body") was fascinating and a bit unpredictable. Carroll's character development has really been remarkable from the first season.

My favorite part was probably Mika's comment about the fire and how she knew it was not out because the smoke was still black. First, you realize the adults are still learning from the kids every day and nothing has changed there. Second, Lizzie thinks Carroll has nothing left to learn when she hears it from her, despite the fact that Carroll heard it from her younger sister.

But the whole episode had this ridiculously eerie vibe to it the entire episode. Even in the upbeat moments, you knew something tragic was coming. On top of that, it was a surprise what happened considering that you think Lizzie had a breakthrough in shooting the zombies. Watching it the second time, she tells Carroll "I know what I have to do now"...I interpreted that the first time as her saying she knows what the zombies are and knows she has to kill them. What she really meant was that she knew she had to kill someone to let them watch the turning because she thought her sister would be right back as good as new and everyone would come to some realization moment. I am honestly just summarizing some of my thoughts here and while I agree this season has taken way too long to culminate to this, I am reinvested after this show. Incredible.
 
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C'mon. That's absurd. We've seen walkers waffle their own faces thru a chain link fence to get at people. They were still smoking and we didn't see any rain so that's not it.

The logical explanation is that the writers thought it would look cool so they included them without any hesitation or respect for the viewer or continuity.

I get the wanting this show to be better, but the long winded explanations people (not you) come up with to defend this pile of [Mark May] is becoming ridiculous.

Yeah, I make no excuses for the way the writers twist the rules of their own world, I just thought I'd share what I've read elsewhere and play devil's advocate :lol: While I still find some entertainment value to the show, it's certainly not as enjoyable as the first season, and it definitely takes something away when they can't abide by their own set of rules. Still, I watch so little TV these days, if there wasn't a Walking Dead episode taped on the DVR it would be filled up with nothing but cartoons for the kids and my wife's shows.
Wolverine said:
did Carole learn about the fire, or was she testing Mika? I thought the revelation was showing how advanced Mika was compared to Lizzie, who showed she didn't know the difference in the smoke colors later.
I think Carol learned about the fire from Mika. They mentioned on the Talking Dead that there was a lot of teaching going on in that episode:
1. Mika teaches Carol about the smoke
2. Mika explains that she has no moral problems killing walkers, but almost completely refuses to harm living creatures. She feels sorry for living people that are bad, but won't kill them. Near the end you can see some of this rubs off on Carol, as she sees the deer at the end of the episode, smiles, and lets it live as Mika would have.
3. Lizzy teaches them that you don't always have to kill a walker, which is probably incorrect, but it depends on your point of view
4. Carol later teaches Lizzy what Mika taught her about the smoke
5. Carol tries to teach Mika that you can't always run, sometimes you have to kill, otherwise you end up like Sophia (Lots of Carol comparing the girls to Sophia here)
6. Tyrese talks about his nightmares, and it's probably a defense mechanism to keep from giving away her secret about Karen at that moment, but Carol says "Maybe they’re not haunting us. Maybe they’re just teaching us, helping remind us so that we can live with what we have to do."
7. Not necessarily a teaching point, but when Lizzy is standing over the body of Mika and wants to turn Judith too, Carol makes a quick point that Judith can't even walk yet, so making her a walker would be futile. This quick thinking ends up sparing Judith's life.
8. Perhaps a teaching point for the audience...but we find out that Lizzy not only sees the walkers as friends, but she claims she can understand them or talk to them....she's the Walker Whisperer! We find out just how mentally damaged Lizzy is, she tells Mika that the walkers want them all to change and be like them. I think Carol is taught that while it's not necessarily a bad thing to teach children survival skills that Sophia never had, maybe some children are not mentally prepared to do that. Carol realizes that everything she taught Lizzy actually made her worse off despite the fact that Lizzy's training did save Tyrese's life at the prison.
9. Carol learns that sometimes theres nothing you can do to change a person. There was no fixing Lizzy, at least not without a proper facility and a straight jacket. She couldn't stay in their little group, Judith's life would be in danger as well as Carol's and Tyrese's. It all comes to a head when Lizzy realizes Carol is upset, but she has no idea why. She thinks Carol is upset over the fact that she (Lizzy) pointed a gun at Carol and Tyrese, not because Mika was dead. At that point it reaffirms what must be done.
10. Tyrese learns that Carol killed Karen. He learns the truth, and at the same time he realizes after the Lizzy situation that Carol is willing to do the hard things that are required for the greater majority. If Carol had dropped that knowledge on him in the grove before the incident, he probably kills her or just leaves. Tyrese also learns from Mika in this episode as his forgiveness is a stark contrast to the vengeance he sought before for Karen's death (Remember Tyrese beating the crap out of Rick?)
11. While Carol is trying to point out to Mika that sometimes things don't work out the way you'd like and you may have to kill bad people, Mika goes on to say that her mother always said "Everything always works out the way it's supposed to." This comes back at the end of the episode when Lizzy and Mika's new mother, Carol, tells Lizzy in the grove "Everything works out the way it's supposed to" as she puts Lizzy down.

There might be some more that I'm forgetting, and I certainly stretched a few of these to make a point, but there definitely was a theme this episode and it was mentioned in Talking Dead as well. It was an interesting note that Tyrese and Carol were putting together a puzzle of Sophia at the table, because Sophia definitely had a lot to do with this episode. While Carol was trying to teach the girls how to be tough in different situations to avoid another Sophia, the girls were teaching Carol in ways how she needed to change. Tyrese learned a few things too, but it was mostly an exchange of knowledge with Carol and the girls.
 
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I think it's not a good reflection of the show if it has gotten to the point where if people think this was the best TWD episode ever; it shows how weak most episodes have been lately.

The first 2 seasons, I would say at least 30% of the episodes were better than this last episode.

In regards to Sunday's episode, I would say it didn't go far enough or at the very least could have been done in a different more powerful way, IMO. Now granted, I don't have kids, so I'm sure that alters my interpretation of it all. I thought seeing the girls walking and talking and Mika seeing the crazy in her sister, seeing her scared for her and kind of sharing a 'last moment', not showing anything of the actual violence but going off to the Tyrese/Carol talk would have made the moment more impactful to me. It was sudden and a surprise, what they were going for, but just a personal preference issue there.

I'm hoping this season can finish strong to keep my interest in it up; but at this point I'm looking forward to the alternative zombie show starting next year I believe on AMC as well.
 
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It's always intriguing to see what passes for morals in a world gone to hell. Is it OK to kill any human when there are so few now? Is it OK to kill the mentally ill now that there is no medical infrastructure to help them? Is it worth standing your ground to kill a few more zombies when there are so many and so few humans? Is revenge killing still in play? More in play? And children seem to be mostly unable to defend themselves(with possible exception of Carl) and a meal on the hoof for any walker. This is a fun series but doesn't have the writing of "Breaking Bad". If you re-watch the first episodes they were not very good at all. The writing and acting has gotten much better, but the multiple slow episodes are a series killer.
 
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I think it's not a good reflection of the show if it has gotten to the point where if people think this was the best TWD episode ever; it shows how weak most episodes have been lately.

The first 2 seasons, I would say at least 30% of the episodes were better than this last episode.

In regards to Sunday's episode, I would say it didn't go far enough or at the very least could have been done in a different more powerful way, IMO. Now granted, I don't have kids, so I'm sure that alters my interpretation of it all.

Things certainly change when you have kids, but that doesn't mean the non-parent viewer can't be empathetic. I think as a parent you put yourself in Carol's shoes, since she was the surrogate mother. Your children all have their strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes brothers and sisters complement each other as Mika and Lizzy did. Unfortunately Lizzy had some major problems, while Mika was almost too pure. I think when your perspective changes like that, and you find yourself viewing the situation as Carol, it makes the scene that much more intense and gripping. What would you do if those were your kids? I think few parents would be able to do what Carol did.
 
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Things certainly change when you have kids, but that doesn't mean the non-parent viewer can't be empathetic. I think as a parent you put yourself in Carol's shoes, since she was the surrogate mother. Your children all have their strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes brothers and sisters complement each other as Mika and Lizzy did. Unfortunately Lizzy had some major problems, while Mika was almost too pure. I think when your perspective changes like that, and you find yourself viewing the situation as Carol, it makes the scene that much more intense and gripping. What would you do if those were your kids? I think few parents would be able to do what Carol did.

I think there's a difference between your kids and and a bat shit crazy girl that you've known for a few months. Even in a zombie apocalypse I think most parents would find it impossible to put down their own child no matter how insane they are acting. If this had happened with Carl I think Rick would be more likely to take him and go off on their own rather than kill him. Now if Carl killed Judith to see what happens when she turns it might be a different story, but I don't think Rick could do it even in that circumstance.

Lizzy was "playing" with enough walkers that she wasn't long for the world anyway so Carol did what needed to be done so they could survive. I probably would have let Mika turn and then let her kill Lizzy to prove a point.

When it comes to empathy I score closer to the sociopath side of the scale so I may not see this the same as normal people.
 
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I think there's a difference between your kids and and a bat [Mark May] crazy girl that you've known for a few months. Even in a zombie apocalypse I think most parents would find it impossible to put down their own child no matter how insane they are acting. If this had happened with Carl I think Rick would be more likely to take him and go off on their own rather than kill him. Now if Carl killed Judith to see what happens when she turns it might be a different story, but I don't think Rick could do it even in that circumstance.

Lizzy was "playing" with enough walkers that she wasn't long for the world anyway so Carol did what needed to be done so they could survive. I probably would have let Mika turn and then let her kill Lizzy to prove a point.

When it comes to empathy I score closer to the sociopath side of the scale so I may not see this the same as normal people.

I will have to say that is what I thought would happen but is death really a teaching tool to the individual that dies? Not like they will learn from their mistakes for next time. I'm sure it crossed Carole's mind but she still loved Lizzie and wanted it done in the most humane manner available.

As for the whole parent/kid angle...I don't have kids, nor am I even married/dating. It is still heartbreaking to see young children die regardless of how long the character has been on the show. I don't need a character from the first two seasons to die to empathize. I felt both children's character developments along with Carole was really moving considering what happened with Sophia. I think the whole time she knew the girls she saw a little bit of Sophia in both of them but wanted to correct the tendencies that she believes led Sophia to dying. All the other archs ulukinatme basically hit. There was a lot going on in this episode and as I loved the first season, I still might like this episode better than any so far. While the show certainly has lost some of my fascination, some of that has to do with the shock value wearing off and not so much the acting/story development.
 
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It strikes me as very cold the way Carol "put down" Lizzie. Shockingly so. Carol now a main character in this series and is a big storyline going forward. Rumors are out about a "main character" dying at this seasons end. Obviously, there are still people left from the Governors group still around as walker bait and also people like Bob and Tyreese, Sasha are all expendable.
 
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It strikes me as very cold the way Carol "put down" Lizzie. Shockingly so. Carol now a main character in this series and is a big storyline going forward. Rumors are out about a "main character" dying at this seasons end. Obviously, there are still people left from the Governors group still around as walker bait and also people like Bob and Tyreese, Sasha are all expendable.

Yeah, they like to end the season and mid seasons with one or two big deaths. Who would be on the chopping block though? I think Rick, Carl, and Michonne survive. I can't see them killing Daryl, they'll lose their female viewers. Maggie and Glen are probably safe. Who does that leave? Carol, Tyrese, Sasha, Bob, Beth? Beth would be tragic after all the screen time they've given her lately, but as a result of that it would make a good end to the season possibly.
 
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