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Thad Matta (OSU's All Time Winningest Coach & 3x B1G COY, Butler HC)

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I can give Thad a pass on some of the recruiting because these kids have been highly rated. He's missed some good talent in Ohio, but you aren't always going to get them all. I wish we did.

What I can't forgive at this point is the blinding loyalty. There are kids that don't put forth enough effort and they dont find bench time the way that they should. Last night was the first game I've watched live in about 5 years and it was awful all the way around. Crowd sucked. Team looked lethargic except for about 3 guys. It really didnt even look like they wanted to be here.

One thing that I noticed, and it pissed me off and numerous people around me, is that there is a player that looks and acts selfish as hell and this team just can't have that. There was one individual that came out in his tee shirt for shoot around while the entire rest of the team were in their warm ups. Now, if said player were having an Evan Turner type of season and went balls out in practice, games and on the bench when he was there I might not think anything of it. Problem is, he's become a serious liability. Why isnt Thad reigning him in and making changes? Why isn't Thad enforcing his own rules for how he wants his team to play? Defense has been his staple every year and effort most of all. None of it looks good for coach right now and thats a damn shame.
 
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Because Thad sees himself as a players coach and thinks giving them some freedom ultimately will help them reach their max potential.

Now that being said, I do think that works OK if you have self motivated and talented guys who really understand the game of basketball. I think with the current mix of players, the motivation has to be bench time if you continue to make the same bad mistakes or not give full effort. I think for the most part, the effort has been more consistent this year. I don't think we lost to FAU because we didn't play hard. We lost because of too many bad possessions resulting in quick threes or turnovers. You are always going to have some of that happen, but this team doesn't have the margin for error for that.

I do get what you are saying though in terms of we have a couple of guys that when things start to go bad, they think they need to be the ones to turn it around on their own and not do it within the team concept. I don't think that comes from selfishness, I think it comes from the desire to win, but they just aren't good enough 1 on 1 athletes to be successful with that mindset.
 
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Hetuck said:
Not saying Thad's health isn't an issue but the decline has also directly coincided with Greg Paulus's promotion to OC. I've never seen any indication that he's qualified for the job.

Thad's health probably makes it harder to take recruiting trips to scout players. Maybe it forces him to cut short film study sessions and time in the office. But it doesn't have anything to do with rewarding the half assed effort of Amir Williams and Marc Loving with extensive playing time and teaching the younger players that you don't have to give your all in order to get minutes. It's built a culture of mediocrity. I figured it wouldn't be until next year after Loving is gone until they'd contend for a conference title. Now I fear it's infected the other players and we're likely to see more of the same.
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Disagree that Paulus's coaching is to blame. Recruiting has been mediocre ever since the great Sully-Thomas-Craft class, basically ever since Dickerson joined the staff. Literally each class after that Sully-led group there has been at best one great player in the class and then the rest have been average to below average. Losing your best (Russell) of that group after 1 year further complicates things, but this day and age you have to be able to bounce back from losing one player within a couple years or you're just not doing your job in recruiting very well.

Being a national contender in college basketball means having top talent, and OSU simply has not had many strong scorers lately, basically in each season since 2013. 2013 they had kind of a perfect storm to stay near the top with elite D, DT having an amazing season and Q emerging in the tourney. 2014 they still had great D but offense was like pulling teeth. Then after 2014 the D got much worse and the scoring talent was the same or declined slightly as well. They just don't have anyone now they can turn to and get points reliably. There is no one they can give the ball to in a certain spot and go to work. No offensive coach is going to succeed without having guys who are very skilled at creating their own shot and/or playing through contact. What they have now is guys who can take advantage of playing against lesser talent and getting open shots, but there is no go-to guy on this team, a general shortage of players who are good at playing through bumps/defenders to score, nobody who will get them over the top when the going gets tough.
 
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DZ83CK said:
Disagree that Paulus's coaching is to blame. Recruiting has been mediocre ever since the great Sully-Thomas-Craft class, basically ever since Dickerson joined the staff. Literally each class after that Sully-led group there has been at best one great player in the class and then the rest have been average to below average. Losing your best (Russell) of that group after 1 year further complicates things, but this day and age you have to be able to bounce back from losing one player within a couple years or you're just not doing your job in recruiting very well.

Being a national contender in college basketball means having top talent, and OSU simply has not had many strong scorers lately, basically in each season since 2013. 2013 they had kind of a perfect storm to stay near the top with elite D, DT having an amazing season and Q emerging in the tourney. 2014 they still had great D but offense was like pulling teeth. Then after 2014 the D got much worse and the scoring talent was the same or declined slightly as well. They just don't have anyone now they can turn to and get points reliably. There is no one they can give the ball to in a certain spot and go to work. No offensive coach is going to succeed without having guys who are very skilled at creating their own shot and/or playing through contact. What they have now is guys who can take advantage of playing against lesser talent and getting open shots, but there is no go-to guy on this team, a general shortage of players who are good at playing through bumps/defenders to score, nobody who will get them over the top when the going gets tough.
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I would counter though that the staff does not seem to be developing the talent they do have. We have watched so many players come in as frosh and 2 or 3 years later regress let alone improve. Players should get better not stay the same or get worse. I have watched players get worse. We can all agree we have watched players loaf. That is on the staff. If they are loafing in games, what do you think they are doing when no one is watching when they are in the weight room or when they are supposed to be working on their own? Practice is most likely a shit show if the game effort is as bad as some of what we have witnessed. Granted, that is a guess, but those are my thoughts.
 
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i anticipated and even started writing a longer message, but i think i'll instead keep this a bit short(er).

anyway, i think matta has at most one more year to prove he's going to remain the head coach at ohio state. i don't foresee a tournament berth, especially given that the non-conference schedule has no notable wins and a horrible loss. the lack of player development is obvious, and the recruiting outlook isn't stellar. i had hopes of solid improvement since last year's young team gathered a lot of experience. if they've taken the next step, i am failing to see it, though.

unless matta steps down (provided a lackluster finish to this season), i just don't know if he will be "fireable" come march. perhaps if the administration has a great hire lined up, it could/would happen. otherwise, i think he remains as head coach for next year while his seat will be known to everyone as quite hot. if for no other reason, matta's seat is and will be hot because of money. the attendance figures are woeful. schottentein & co. are bottom line people, and matta ain't exactly a rainmaker anymore.

it's saddening for me to see this program slowly diving because i really like matta. he's brought so much good to the program after it was bereft of good. more importantly to me, he's brought in players i can be proud of as people if not players. we've had no on-the-court or off-the-court problem players. and matta is such a likable guy. i like his style. however, there is no overcoming stale, lukewarm production with affability and a clear conscience. you must produce and you must draw.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
i anticipated and even started writing a longer message, but i think i'll instead keep this a bit short(er).

anyway, i think matta has at most one more year to prove he's going to remain the head coach at ohio state. i don't foresee a tournament berth, especially given that the non-conference schedule has no notable wins and a horrible loss. the lack of player development is obvious, and the recruiting outlook isn't stellar. i had hopes of solid improvement since last year's young team gathered a lot of experience. if they've taken the next step, i am failing to see it, though.

unless matta steps down (provided a lackluster finish to this season), i just don't know if he will be "fireable" come march. perhaps if the administration has a great hire lined up, it could/would happen. otherwise, i think he remains as head coach for next year while his seat will be known to everyone as quite hot. if for no other reason, matta's seat is and will be hot because of money. the attendance figures are woeful. schottentein & co. are bottom line people, and matta ain't exactly a rainmaker anymore.

it's saddening for me to see this program slowly diving because i really like matta. he's brought so much good to the program after it was bereft of good. more importantly to me, he's brought in players i can be proud of as people if not players. we've had no on-the-court or off-the-court problem players. and matta is such a likable guy. i like his style. however, there is no overcoming stale, lukewarm production with affability and a clear conscience. you must produce and you must draw.
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Agree with all of this.

That said, I hope Matta steps down after this season. The recruiting has been lackluster for years now, and a "hotseat" coach can't recruit worth a damn. This is already a middling roster, and it's only gonna get worse.

It's been an unreal run, but at some point you have to recognize how badly it's slipping, and stop the bleeding.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
i anticipated and even started writing a longer message, but i think i'll instead keep this a bit short(er).

anyway, i think matta has at most one more year to prove he's going to remain the head coach at ohio state. i don't foresee a tournament berth, especially given that the non-conference schedule has no notable wins and a horrible loss. the lack of player development is obvious, and the recruiting outlook isn't stellar. i had hopes of solid improvement since last year's young team gathered a lot of experience. if they've taken the next step, i am failing to see it, though.

unless matta steps down (provided a lackluster finish to this season), i just don't know if he will be "fireable" come march. perhaps if the administration has a great hire lined up, it could/would happen. otherwise, i think he remains as head coach for next year while his seat will be known to everyone as quite hot. if for no other reason, matta's seat is and will be hot because of money. the attendance figures are woeful. schottentein & co. are bottom line people, and matta ain't exactly a rainmaker anymore.

it's saddening for me to see this program slowly diving because i really like matta. he's brought so much good to the program after it was bereft of good. more importantly to me, he's brought in players i can be proud of as people if not players. we've had no on-the-court or off-the-court problem players. and matta is such a likable guy. i like his style. however, there is no overcoming stale, lukewarm production with affability and a clear conscience. you must produce and you must draw.
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While I agree with most of what you have stated, I think you know that I am a big Matta guy. Even with declining attendance and revenue in the basketball program I do not see Matta ever being fired. He might leave but I doubt that also. I guess we shall see so everyone will have to grin and bear it.
 
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If I read this thread, it feels like it felt when Fred Taylor gave up after the Luke Witte incident. But, if you look at their records, it's not. Matta is doing much better. This year and last year were [MarkMay] storms, but I think he can turn it around.
 
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Steve19 said:
If I read this thread, it feels like it felt when Fred Taylor gave up after the Luke Witte incident. But, if you look at their records, it's not. Matta is doing much better. This year and last year were [MarkMay] storms, but I think he can turn it around.
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I don't know the recruiting is anything that leads me to believe things are about to turnaround.
 
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Re: Developing talent.

With a few exceptions you come to college with the skillset you have. It's up to the coaches to get the most out of that skillset. They can certainly work to be a better team and unit but thinking a guy is going to retool his game just doesn't happen often.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I don't know the recruiting is anything that leads me to believe things are about to turnaround.
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Unfortunately true. We aren't the same as we were 5 years ago because our recruiting has been in tailspin for a few years.

Granted, in basketball you can recover immediately with 2 great gets and could immediately be great next year, but we aren't pulling two greats in.
 
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To me, this is a double edge sword. Matta is the reason my expectations is as high as they are for OSU hoops. However, the last three plus years have been awful to watch.

I have a difficult time seeing guys like Luke Kennard, Nigel Hayes, Esa Ahmad, Nick Ward, VJ King, etc... playing for other schools and shining. In-state players should be dreaming to play for Ohio State! Also, That should not wait until the last minute to offer these really good Ohio prospects.
 
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HabaneroBuck said:
That's a good point about the Schott. A lot of these games would have been better served at St. John's!

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2016/6/8/11887992/ohio-state-basketball-attendance-big-ten-2016

Bucks were ninth in the B1G last year in attendance. This year was supposed to see a turnaround in those attendance declines, but I'm not seeing it happen. They've lost 4000 in average attendance in only two years!
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If you think playing in St John rather than the Schott would've helped attendance, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
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