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Thad Matta (OSU's All Time Winningest Coach & 3x B1G COY, Butler HC)

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NFBuck said:
None of us know how much his back problems have hindered his ability to coach and recruit, but I suspect it plays a substantial role. It would be a helluva coincidence that the results have been steadily falling off as reports of his health issues started.
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I think his back is in pretty good shape currently. I do not know if you saw the Purdue game or not but there is a bad call at the other end of the court and he sort of kneeled down in front of the scorers' table and got up without any problem at all. His back might not be great but I did not think that it is affecting his recruiting or coaching.. I do not like losing either but maybe I cannot see the forest because the trees. He has done so much for the basketball program at Ohio State I would hate for him to leave when it is in on a downhill slide. I guess we shall see what happens. He has had slow starts before so here is hoping…
 
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LitlBuck said:
I think his back is in pretty good shape currently. I do not know if you saw the Purdue game or not but there is a bad call at the other end of the court and he sort of kneeled down in front of the scorers' table and got up without any problem at all. His back might not be great but I did not think that it is affecting his recruiting or coaching.. I do not like losing either but maybe I cannot see the forest because the trees. He has done so much for the basketball program at Ohio State I would hate for him to leave when it is in on a downhill slide. I guess we shall see what happens. He has had slow starts before so here is hoping…
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I hope as much as anybody he rights the ship, but it seems like a longshot at best. It's not from a lack of effort, I just don't think this is a very good team, and I don't see much help on the horizon.
 
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Thad and Gene need to have a talk ..if Thad needs something from the Administration he should get it and likewise the administration needs to know what is the plan going forward. If Thad can't articulate how he plans to improve things ..his future must be in question. Maybe not next year but the clock is running..
 
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As I said before, if you want to have a chance for the '18 and '19 classes to be really good, you are going to have to have to decide what you want to do with the head coaching position moving forward. If you are the AD and we miss the tourney again this year and what is expected in the near future isn't good enough to give Thad an extension at the end of the season, then I think we should move on sooner rather than later. I think the rest of this season, Thad is fighting to show that he wants and deserves to keep his job. I do think he is coaching like he wants it, I just don't know that the results are good enough to deserve it.
 
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This is a results based business and sadly, it is "what have you done for me lately" when "lately" is less and less each year, 5 years running. That shouldn't happen when when you make more money than Urban Meyer. Come up with any excuse you want but excuses don't cut it when you make that kind of money and get worse and worse and worse. Sure, I hate to see the Thad Matta story at Ohio State end the way it is heading, but it would be a poor decision by the administration to let this slide continue when they are smart enough to see a pattern developing.

2011: Matta had a team that went 34-3 and lost in the sweet sixteen.

They made the Final Four in 2012 and that's the beginning of the downward spiral of this program.

2013: 2nd place B1G finish and loss in the elite eight.

2014: 4th place B1G finish and out of the tourney the first weekend.

2015: 6th place B1G finish and out of the tourney the first weekend.

2016: 7th place B1G finish and NIT 2nd round exit.

This year looks to be even worse. There has been no single spike in success for the last 5 years. It is down, down, down, down and down further. There isn't anything in the near future to point to that would indicate that this trend isn't going to continue. Recruiting is mediocre. The coaching is and has been mediocre. Without the stars, this staff isn't capable of doing the jobs that smaller schools have to do which is put together a system that fits the players abilities and win with fundamentals. Anybody can win with the Thad 5. This team has more talent than the scrubs that they have been losing to in the non-conference but those teams have coaching and play as a team.

I don't want to hear about how Ohio State basketball was before Thad. We KNOW what it is capable of. Thad Matta is not Coach K or Tom Izzo. If he could come and be successful, so can another coach. If we should just be happy with how this team is, then this conversation isn't even worth having. The Ohio State athletic department is too big to not care and not be successful in the second biggest collegiate sport there is. Ohio State shouldn't take a back seat to anybody. The mentality should be that they are going to get a good coach after Matta moves on and compete for championships, not compete for a 6th place B1G finish and hope to make the tournament because we just accept basketball mediocrity and we aren't good enough for anything better. 68 teams make the tournament and Ohio State wasn't one last year and they aren't going to be one this year and it has only been getting worse. How does that not call for change?

This isn't to say that I'm not grateful for what Matta has done here at Ohio State but this isn't a nice guy business and this isn't one bad year after a run to the elite eight. This is a year worse than the year worse than the year worse than the year worse than the year before. That shouldn't happen at a school paying their coach more money than Urban freaking Meyer.
 
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When you look at the fact that the schools Matta coached in the past (Butler, X) are better and have been or at least the equivalent of for the last 3-5 years you have to take a hard look at where the program is and is going. The Buckeyes are not even close to being the best team in Ohio which is absolutely ludicrous. There came a time when, even after bringing a NC to tOSU, that Buckeye Nation had to say goodbye to Eldon Miller. I appreciate what Matta has done here, but it is time to move on.....
 
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CFPBuckeye said:
This is a results based business and sadly, it is "what have you done for me lately" when "lately" is less and less each year, 5 years running. That shouldn't happen when when you make more money than Urban Meyer. Come up with any excuse you want but excuses don't cut it when you make that kind of money and get worse and worse and worse. Sure, I hate to see the Thad Matta story at Ohio State end the way it is heading, but it would be a poor decision by the administration to let this slide continue when they are smart enough to see a pattern developing.

2011: Matta had a team that went 34-3 and lost in the sweet sixteen.

They made the Final Four in 2012 and that's the beginning of the downward spiral of this program.

2013: 2nd place B1G finish and loss in the elite eight.
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The Thad bashing was quite prevalent in 2012 & 2013, which is why folks like it will always reference it.
2014: 4th place B1G finish and out of the tourney the first weekend.

2015: 6th place B1G finish and out of the tourney the first weekend.

2016: 7th place B1G finish and NIT 2nd round exit.
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2017: :(

Which is why it's time to go.
I don't want to hear about how Ohio State basketball was before Thad. We KNOW what it is capable of.
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You know what he is capable of. We've seen what many others are.

Good luck finding ANYONE else that can get the next Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Daequan Cook, David Lighty, Evan Turner, Kosta Koufous, BJ Mullen to come to Ohio State in a 3 year span. I feel quite confident saying that will never happen again.
Thad Matta is not Coach K or Tom Izzo. If he could come and be successful, so can another coach.
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Just wait, you'll see.
If we should just be happy with how this team is, then this conversation isn't even worth having. The Ohio State athletic department is too big to not care and not be successful in the second biggest collegiate sport there is. Ohio State shouldn't take a back seat to anybody. The mentality should be that they are going to get a good coach after Matta moves on and compete for championships, not compete for a 6th place B1G finish and hope to make the tournament because we just accept basketball mediocrity and we aren't good enough for anything better. 68 teams make the tournament and Ohio State wasn't one last year and they aren't going to be one this year and it has only been getting worse. How does that not call for change?

This isn't to say that I'm not grateful for what Matta has done here at Ohio State but this isn't a nice guy business and this isn't one bad year after a run to the elite eight. This is a year worse than the year worse than the year worse than the year worse than the year before. That shouldn't happen at a school paying their coach more money than Urban freaking Meyer.
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They do not need a good coach to achieve what you're talking about. They need a phenomenal one and you have to also find one who is disinterested in much better basketball positions in college and pro. It's really hard to find a coach that is that special. It's borderline impossible to find and keep him here.

You'll find out about the difference between things that could happen and probably will happen once Thad is ushered out like so many have been clamoring for ages.
 
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buckeyebri said:
Ha ha just seeing who's paying attention......Should have won one though with Kellogg and Williams
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Yes, in 1980 when we blew out the Pac 8 champs (ASU, I think) only to lose the next game to the eventual champs UCLA....
That was a great team with Kellogg, Carter Scott, Herb Williams, Kelvin Ransey and Jim Smith.....
 
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jwinslow said:
The Thad bashing was quite prevalent in 2012 & 2013, which is why folks like it will always reference it.
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I wasn't around then, but back then, Matta would have gotten some slack from me.

2017: :(
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Very :(

You know what he is capable of. We've seen what many others are.
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Is Matta the only one in the sport who can do what was done at Ohio State? That would make him the best coach on the planet if every other coach out there is a drop off.

Good luck finding ANYONE else that can get the next Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Daequan Cook, David Lighty, Evan Turner, Kosta Koufous, BJ Mullen to come to Ohio State in a 3 year span. I feel quite confident saying that will never happen again.
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He caught lightning in a bottle (4 studs in one year) and then rode that success to slightly less recruiting success (3 guys over the next two years) in the next few years and it tapered off to what we have now which is becoming the norm (with the exception of an occasional, and I use that term loosely, Deshaun Thomas and Deangelo Russell.) Nobody of that caliber is walking through the door in the forseeable future. So you are correct, at least as long as no changes are made, that what we saw is never happening again.

They do not need a good coach to achieve what you're talking about. They need a phenomenal one and you have to also find one who is bizarrely disinterested in much better basketball positions in college and pro.
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Ohio State should go after no less than a phenomenal coach. What was Duke before Krzyzewski? Coach K wasn't even "Coach K" back then and Duke wasn't much of anything. Now, it is generally accepted to lose players to them because they are a "blueblood." Before Coach K, they had 4 Final Fours and 2 runner up finishes in their history. Ohio State doesn't have any less success than that. Duke moved on from Foster (who just took them to a Final Four in 1978) and the program took off with a coach who stayed with the program and turned down every offer imaginable for the next 30+ years. Extreme example? Maybe. But Ohio State shouldn't be scared to move on and find a new coach because of some inferiority complex. It's Ohio MF'n State. There's a whole lot more to work with at Ohio State than there was at Duke pre-K.

You'll find out about the difference between things that could happen and probably will happen once Thad is ushered out like so many have been clamoring for for ages.
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Certainly possible. However, what "probably will happen" is not too far off from what is happening, if it's any different at all, so if there was ever a time to test those waters, this is it.
 
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Yeah, I'm sure Thad worked his tail off to get that '06 class here, but it was a bit of a perfect storm with IU and Kentucky being really bad, Oden and Conley wanting to play together, but neither having a common interest in any blue blood program and Thad having a relationship with them from a young age. Koufos and Mullens were OSU fans and would likely have come to OSU no matter who the coach was. Thad is no longer landing those types of players anyway so its not really a valid comparison.

Thad was a great coach when he was able to recruit elite talent who could thrive in his style of offense. He hasn't been able to keep the recruiting up to that level or adapt his style to get more out of lesser talent and he hasn't been able to develop that talent to fit the offense. I think if Wesson continues to improve his athleticism, he could become a post player that Matta could build an offense around. I don't know if Wesson will get there quick enough for Thad to be around.
 
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CFPBuckeye said:
Certainly possible. However, what "probably will happen" is not too far off from what is happening, if it's any different at all, so if there was ever a time to test those waters, this is it.
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Exactly.

As recently as 2015, I was one of the folks preaching "be careful what you wish for" in regards to moving on from Matta. But, that was back when strong tourney runs and recruits like Russell were still recent vintage. I never pictured tOSU basketball slipping to where it now finds itself under Thad. He had some rough years in '08 and '09 and bounced back big time. But, that was only two years and he was still recruiting at an elite-level at that point. He doesn't appear to be bouncing back this time as this is a fourth straight disappointing year, and the program is where I feared it might slip to had Matta been ushered out and they couldn't find a solid replacement.

As for the big picture here...yes, tOSU is a FOOTBALL school. Yes, fan support is timid. However, tOSU's athletic department has the resources to make this an attractive job. Thad Matta is currently a top-10 paid coach. If they're willing to pay, they will get a top guy to come. And there's some up and comers out there like Archie Miller at Dayton, Chris Holtmann at Butler, that could see replacing Matta as a good career move. Especially if you throw money at them.

It will be EXTREMELY difficult to match Matta's accomplishments. He set the bar very high. But I don't think it would be difficult to improve on where tOSU basketball currently finds itself.
 
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