Star Wars (May the Force be with you)

[exhawg]

Yeah, I should have put "delusional view" instead of vision. Never said it was a good vision :p

One thing I would love to do is find someone who has never seen a Star Wars movie and then have them watch all 6 in order I-VI to see what they think. I think our biggest problem is having seen IV-VI and then I-III. It has distorted our views of these 6 movies. It will also be interesting in like 10 years when we have children (or when the children are old enough to see these movies) if we would show them in order or the order we saw them?

I still think what most of us will take away from this in 5 years from now is I-III never happened and if anything only fills in a couple of gaps of the original trilogy like a sidebar when they talk of the clone wars.

I think when I have kids and want to show them Star Wars I'll start with 1, 2, then the Clone Wars cartoons, 3, 4, 5, and 6. We'll have to make a weekend out of it.

 

[buckeyegrad]

I plan on doing the same Exhawg, I am going to show my kids the movies in the order of I-VI, if for no other reason than to see how this causes their view of the movies and saga to differ from mine. I know one guy over at the theforce.net complains that he can't get his kids to watch the original trilogy. Although they love the prequels, they complain that the old ones are boring. I personally can't believe this, but it is very interesting.

bb73: "Coming out of the theater on opening day in 1983, Return of the Jedi was my favorite."

Oh definately. Anyone who refers to Jedi as 'weak' or would put any of these prequels in the same class as it are probably too young to have lived through the original trilogy as it progressed, as I suspect buckeyegrad is.

Well, I don't how old you are Sloopy, but I was born in November of 1975, which means A New Hope came out when when I was 1.5 years old, Empire when I was 4, and Jedi when I was 7. Empire was the first of the three I can remember seeing. Jedi was the only one of the three I saw in the movie theatres.

Anyway, my comment about Jedi being the weakest of the three is not out of left field like you suggest. Many Star Wars fans believed this in the pre-prequel era. (I base this statement on what I read on SW message boards before the prequels were made, boards I have frequented since I first got on the internet back in 1997). A lot of Star Wars fans hated the Ewoks and said they were a merchandising ploy, thought Lucas has lost his originality for recycling the idea of the Death Star, and disliked the directing of the movie. In fact, it is quite ironic that many of the complaints voiced against the prequels were the same things commonly said about Return of the Jedi. Heck, there was even a small group of fan boys pissed that Empire and Jedi were so different from A New Hope and claimed that Lucas ruined his creation in 1980!

Obviously Sloop and I disagree on the quality and value of the prequels, which is no big deal. What I don't get is why he and others like him feel it is necessary to go out of their way to trash the movies, and especially trash George Lucas. They act as if Lucas betrayed them and that he ows them something better.

WTF type of reasoning is this...it is Comicbook Guy at his worst. It's Lucas' idea and creation, so he can do with it whatever he wants. He ows the fans nothing. It is crap to say the fans made him by buying his product. Hello, if it wasn't for Lucas the fans wouldn't even exist....that's right, Lucas made the fans, not the other way around.

(I sure am glad these types of fans don't exist for Lord of the Rings. I can't even imagine someone suggesting that Tolkien ruined his masterpiece because the ring wraiths are too weak in Fellowship of the Ring compared to what they do in Return of the King. I guess Lucas should have taken 17 years to write the Star Wars saga and build it upon a fiction history he had been working on for 20 years prior before he released a single movie.)

 

[Zurp]

One thing I would love to do is find someone who has never seen a Star Wars movie and then have them watch all 6 in order I-VI to see what they think. I think our biggest problem is having seen IV-VI and then I-III. It has distorted our views of these 6 movies. It will also be interesting in like 10 years when we have children (or when the children are old enough to see these movies) if we would show them in order or the order we saw them?

I've thought about this, too. But I've decided that if you find someone who has never seen them and knows nothing about them, you'd lose the huge impact at the end of Empire Strikes Back with the "I am your father" line. The imaginary newbie to Star Wars would already know that. And similarly, he'd already know that Luke and Leia were twins before Episode VI.

 

[buckeyegrad]

I've thought about this, too. But I've decided that if you find someone who has never seen them and knows nothing about them, you'd lose the huge impact at the end of Empire Strikes Back with the "I am your father" line. The imaginary newbie to Star Wars would already know that. And similarly, he'd already know that Luke and Leia were twins before Episode VI.

All of this is true, but there would be surprises in Episode III for them to see like Palpantine being Sidious. Of course, they would also not know that Anakin does go to the Dark Side. Sure, it seems pretty evident to us, but if you know nothing about Darth Vader and you hear about this prophecy, it might be a big surprise.

Having never experienced the surprise of "Luke, I am Your Father" (somehow I knew this before I ever saw the movies), I don't think the loss of the surprise is anything bad.

 

[tibor75]

WTF type of reasoning is this...it is Comicbook Guy at his worst. It's Lucas' idea and creation, so he can do with it whatever he wants. He ows the fans nothing. It is crap to say the fans made him by buying his product. Hello, if it wasn't for Lucas the fans wouldn't even exist....that's right, Lucas made the fans, not the other way around.

CBG: Last night's "Itchy & Scratchy" was, without a doubt, the worst episode ever. Rest assured that I was on the Internet within minutes, registering my disgust throughout the world.

Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you have to complain?

CBG: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.

Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe them.

CBG: [pauses] Worst episode ever.

-- "The Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie Show"

 

[Eberts_fat_lip]

As much as I enjoyed the flick, I found buckeyegrads much anticapated review to lack focus and was too long and rambling, he spend too much time defending the movie. I was reading a thesis on the entire trilogy as opposed to ROTS as a stand alone movie.

The only aspect of the storyline I can't buy is Padme's death. How can anyone accept that a new mother of twins dies because she loses the will to live ??? This thought process is a serious flaw, it makes her look lower than a trailer park whore. To me this is a much bigger problem than "Leia's memory" which can be explained away by the fanboys.

 

[Hubbard]

The only aspect of the storyline I can't buy is Padme's death. How can anyone accept that a new mother of twins dies because she loses the will to live ??? This thought process is a serious flaw, it makes her look lower than a trailer park whore. To me this is a much bigger problem than "Leia's memory" which can be explained away by the fanboys.

The only problem I have with that scene is that a droid said this.....I know they are advanced, but I don't think a medical droid has that kind of programming. Call it a heart failure or something, not she has lost the will to live, kinda corny to me.

 

[tibor75]

Padme's dying because of losing the will to live is stupid, but it's not as dumb as Anakin's "immaculate conception." Gee, I wonder where Lucas got the idea for that.

 

[buckeyefool]

Anyway, my comment about Jedi being the weakest of the three is not out of left field like you suggest. Many Star Wars fans believed this in the pre-prequel era. (I base this statement on what I read on SW message boards before the prequels were made, boards I have frequented since I first got on the internet back in 1997). A lot of Star Wars fans hated the Ewoks and said they were a merchandising ploy, thought Lucas has lost his originality for recycling the idea of the Death Star, and disliked the directing of the movie. In fact, it is quite ironic that many of the complaints voiced against the prequels were the same things commonly said about Return of the Jedi. Heck, there was even a small group of fan boys pissed that Empire and Jedi were so different from A New Hope and claimed that Lucas ruined his creation in 1980!

There is a new series on VH1 called when (insert name ) ruled the world. They did a when Star Wars ruled the world. The interviewed superfans, directors, and the actors in the movie. Harrison Ford said he thought it was sad that you had a great trilogy of movies end with a teddy bear party.

 

[buckeyegrad]

As much as I enjoyed the flick, I found buckeyegrads much anticapated review to lack focus and was too long and rambling, he spend too much time defending the movie. I was reading a thesis on the entire trilogy as opposed to ROTS as a stand alone movie.

Hence, why I titled my thread: Buckeyegrad's Official Review of the entire Star Wars saga or Defending Lucas’ Masterpiece and not Two Thumbs Up to "Return of the Sith."

 

[Thump]

Hence, why I titled my thread: Buckeyegrad's Official Review of the entire Star Wars saga or Defending Lucas’ Masterpiece and not Two Thumbs Up to "Return of the Sith."

It was pretty long but glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Sloopy45]

buckeyegrad: "Well, I don't how old you are Sloopy, but I was born in November of 1975, which means A New Hope came out when when I was 1.5 years old, Empire when I was 4, and Jedi when I was 7."

Wow. We're the same age then (I was born April 1975). You're the first person in our age range that I've ever met with a positive view of these prequels. In fact, you're the only late 20's person I ever met that doesn't HATE the prequels. That's where my inference about your age comes from.

"Anyway, my comment about Jedi being the weakest of the three is not out of left field like you suggest."

I don't disagree. I agree that Jedi is the worst of the three, but I disagree with the new, evolved notion that Jedi is a 'poor' movie, or that any of these prequels are in the same class as Jedi. To me, the only thing that took Jedi down a notch (when compared with the first two) is that Harrison Ford mailed in his performance b/c he didn't want to play Han Solo anymore.

"recycling the idea of the Death Star"

An idea that he has now recycled in 4 of the 6 movies. Can you (as an advocate of the Prequels & a Lucas mark), please explain to me how it takes 20 years to build the first Death Star, and takes 2 years to build the 2nd one?

 

[Zurp]

In fact, you're the only late 20's person I ever met that doesn't HATE the prequels.

I'm 29 (born May 1976). I don't hate any of the prequels. I think I and II are weak, compared to IV, V and VI, but I don't hate them. So maybe you have 2 people on your list, eh?

I don't disagree. I agree that Jedi is the worst of the three, but I disagree with the new, evolved notion that Jedi is a 'poor' movie, or that any of these prequels are in the same class as Jedi. To me, the only thing that took Jedi down a notch (when compared with the first two) is that Harrison Ford mailed in his performance b/c he didn't want to play Han Solo anymore.

VI, in my opinion, is not a "poor" movie, though I agree it was the worst of the three. I don't know why I've never liked it as much, but I just never did. Maybe it was the cutsie Ewoks.

An idea that he has now recycled in 4 of the 6 movies. Can you (as an advocate of the Prequels & a Lucas mark), please explain to me how it takes 20 years to build the first Death Star, and takes 2 years to build the 2nd one?

Union disagreements in the first death star? Not a large enough labor force or supplies? Trying to hide the construction of the death star from a diminishing senate? Maybe the second one was already started and halfway finished before the first one was operational.

 

[Sloopy45]

Zurp: "So maybe you have 2 people on your list, eh?"

Not really. First off, I don't know how big a fan you are of the first three movies, and you might fall one of the criteria I listed: a.) "You're the first person in our age range that I've ever met with a positive view of these prequels."

"VI, in my opinion, is not a "poor" movie, though I agree it was the worst of the three. I don't know why I've never liked it as much, but I just never did. Maybe it was the cutsie Ewoks."

Return of the Jedi, fundamentally, is going to be the worst of the three regardless. If you take the three movies for what they are: 1. Opening Act, 2. Chaos, 3. Conclusion, then there's no way it can hold up to the previous two. The body of a play is held in the middle Act. Jedi's purpose was to conclude the Saga. It didn't have the leeway for plot twists & intrigue that the previous two acts did. If you take it for what it is, I don't think you can criticize it too much, as some people have started to do.

 

[Zurp]

If you take it for what it is, I don't think you can criticize it too much, as some people have started to do.

I certainly wouldn't criticize it. At least, no more than "it's the worst of the original trilogy." I think it's a pretty neat movie. I probably don't watch it any less than IV and V. I guess I didn't read the entire thread to see what criticism it was receiving from other people.