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Star Wars (May the Force be with you)

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stxbuck: "Did anybody else make the leap that Palpatine may have learned how to create life before killing his Sith master, and used that power to create Anakin (without having sex with his mother Shmi)?"

Palpatine says breifly in the movie (more detailed in the book) that he never learned Darth Plageus' secret of how to cheat death/create life. After Anakin turns, he says, "We will learn the secret together." So, its safe to assume that he had nothing to with Anakin's birth. I think you're reading too much into it.

And as far as that tale is concerned, it might be true, or it might not be. A Sith uses lies, deceit, and deception to achieve his means. "The tradgedy of Darth Plageus the Wise" could be a lie altogether to bring Anakin to the Dark Side. As far as the Jedi knew, the Sith were extinct for a millenium, so Darth Plageus might not have ever existed.

"I noticed this too-Palpatine's comment about learning everything from his master-I think it was being implied that Palpatine was the apprentice who killed the Sith master in his sleep."

Yes. In the book, Palpatine is Plageus' Apprentice.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
stxbuck: "Did anybody else make the leap that Palpatine may have learned how to create life before killing his Sith master, and used that power to create Anakin (without having sex with his mother Shmi)?"
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The quoting without using the quote button technique pulled something that stx had quoted from me, and seemingly attributed it to stx. No problem here, but something you may want to watch out for.
 
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why did kenobi not consider leia? several possible factors. first and formost, as others have noted kenobi may not have known. secondly leia is a princess, that makes her a politician. kenobi does not trust politicians and for this very reason likely would have been hesitant to train her. third, leia is a fricken princess... luke is a joe nobody living in the bfe of the galaxy. if luke up and falls off the face of "insert planets name here" out side of his uncle and aunt... who could care less? who would notice? just another scumbag potential slave gone missing. if leia runs off to become a jedi... you might as well give vader a call saying "we're having a jedi reunion, why don't ya stop by and nuke the planet from orbit?".

stxbuck, i made that leap the first time i saw jedi. i think palpatine is in some way anikan's father. it would make sense and add to the conflict of the situation. could you stand idly by as your father killed your son? could you kill your father to keep him from doing so? puts a new spin on the situation doesn't it?
 
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martinss01: "kenobi does not trust politicians and for this very reason likely would have been hesitant to train her."

This aspect of Kenobi's personality hadn't been established when Empire Strikes Back was written. Therefore, its not a valid explanation as to why that piece of the script was written at the time.

"luke is a joe nobody living in the bfe of the galaxy."

Luke ain't Joe Nobody. To quote Vader: "Luke .. you have not yet realized your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me ... and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict .. and bring order to the galaxy."

"if leia runs off to become a jedi... you might as well give vader a call saying "we're having a jedi reunion, why don't ya stop by and nuke the planet from orbit?"."

Leia's been hiding from the Emperor since she got off the Death Star. How're they gonna know that she's training to be a Jedi? They sure as hell couldn't find her, and they busted their ass to do so.

Which comes back to the only plausible conclusion: "first and formost, as others have noted kenobi may not have known."
 
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Sloopy45 said:
martinss01: "kenobi does not trust politicians and for this very reason likely would have been hesitant to train her."

This aspect of Kenobi's personality hadn't been established when Empire Strikes Back was written. Therefore, its not a valid explanation as to why that piece of the script was written at the time.

Which comes back to the only plausible conclusion: "first and formost, as others have noted kenobi may not have known."
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But wouldn't that be good writing establishing his distrust of politicians through these prequels to explain that?

This nitpicking is getting insane. People just have to live with some of these jumps of faith and small inconsistencies. Yoda could have just been reminding Kenobi about Leia, it is not like Obi-Wan disagreed with Yoda after that to make it 100% that Obi-Wan never knew about her.

When the original trilogy was made there was no reason to think that the prequels would be made and to tighten up the backstories more. And when the prequels were made some small items were distorted due to trying to make them better. Not saying that it made them better, but in Lucas' "vision" of what it should be. It is not like Lucas decided to change a main vein of the storyline, it was just some peripherals that got damaged.
 
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Piney: "Not saying that it made them better, but in Lucas' "vision" of what it should be."

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said in the post, except for this statement.

Lucas never had a 'vision' as to what the prequels would be. If there was indeed a 'vision' that he stuck to, then there would be no inconsistencies whatsoever.

Its clearly evident from the disaster that is the Prequels, that Lucas had a rough outline of a backstory. Never a solid vision, idea, or script for them. He's made all this crap up as he goes along, and completely disregarded a lot of stuff from the previous movies to fill in holes & deficiencies from his lack of writing skills.

There is no 'vision' here anymore. Just a 60 year old man who had one phenomenal idea in his life, and whose ego's grown way too big for his britches since he gave us that idea 28 years ago.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Lucas never had a 'vision' as to what the prequels would be. If there was indeed a 'vision' that he stuck to, then there would be no inconsistencies whatsoever.

Its clearly evident from the disaster that is the Prequels, that Lucas had a rough outline of a backstory. Never a solid vision, idea, or script for them. He's made all this crap up as he goes along, and completely disregarded a lot of stuff from the previous movies to fill in holes & deficiencies from his lack of writing skills.

There is no 'vision' here anymore. Just a 60 year old man who had one phenomenal idea in his life, and whose ego's grown way too big for his britches since he gave us that idea 28 years ago.
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Yoda said it best, You must unlearn what you have learned

Many of the "inconsistencies" that you perceive appear to be the result of an attitude that the original trilogy should straight-jacket the prequels. Instead, what Lucas has done is recast the original trilogy through the prequels. For instance, and the most obvious, deciding to focus the Star Wars saga on Anakin/Vader's story instead of Luke. This is a very creative idea! Instead of focusing the story on the successful hero, Lucas switched the focus to the fallen hero.

I love the fact that I can now watch the old trilogy, which I loved before the prequels, from a new certain point of view. In my opinion, this new view actually improves the overall story arc. Return of the Jedi, originally the weakest of the old trilogy, is now a more powerful movie as a result of the prequels. In fact, A New Hope now comes across as the weakest of the three!

I'm sorry Lucas' new vision has changed the concept of the original triology in a way that you do not like, but for me it has improved upon an already wonderful story by making it richer.
 
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buckeyegrad: "Many of the "inconsistencies" that you perceive appear to be the result of an attitude that the original trilogy should straight-jacket the prequels."

The people who love Star Wars, and who made Lucas a multi-Billionaire, only had the back references in the Original movies to whet their appetites & imaginations for 16 years. People wanted to see those back references put to life. To completely ignore each & every one is a slap in the face to the people who loved these movies, and shoveled dollar after dollar into his wallet.

"For instance, and the most obvious, deciding to focus the Star Wars saga on Anakin/Vader's story instead of Luke. This is a very creative idea! Instead of focusing the story on the successful hero, Lucas switched the focus to the fallen hero."

???? - Was he supposed to write a three movie script about Luke in the womb? The Star Wars saga evolved into the story of Darth Vader, almost by itself. Granted, it was a maginicent idea to begin with, but the focus moved from Luke to Anakin by necessity after that.

"I'm sorry Lucas' new vision has changed the concept of the original triology in a way that you do not like, but for me it has improved upon an already wonderful story by making it richer."

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I don't begrudge you at all, and I'm glad that you loved the new movies. Lets just say that my opinion is the complete exact and total opposite of yours. In every way. No sweat either way.
 
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buckeyegrad said:
I love the fact that I can now watch the old trilogy, which I loved before the prequels, from a new certain point of view. In my opinion, this new view actually improves the overall story arc. Return of the Jedi, originally the weakest of the old trilogy, is now a more powerful movie as a result of the prequels. In fact, A New Hope now comes across as the weakest of the three!
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I've always felt that A New Hope was the weakest of the original 3. I have been in the minority for 22 years. Coming out of the theater on opening day in 1983, Return of the Jedi was my favorite. Over time I can see that Empire is a better movie, but as far as just enjoying the movie when you first saw it, Jedi was the best one for me.

Sloop - "Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." I think the Dark Side is preventing you from just enjoying the movies. :biggrin:
 
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bb73: "Coming out of the theater on opening day in 1983, Return of the Jedi was my favorite."

Oh definately. Anyone who refers to Jedi as 'weak' or would put any of these prequels in the same class as it are probably too young to have lived through the original trilogy as it progressed, as I suspect buckeyegrad is.

Jedi is what it is. It is the conclusion to the space opera. Obviously, its not going to have major plot twists, and won't be as riveting as Empire, because the middle part of a play is always better than the ending.

People forget: no one had seen Jabba the Hutt before, no one knew how or if they'd save Han Solo, no one had really seen the Emperor, and most importantly, no one really knew if Vader was REALLY Luke's father until Yoda said, "Your father he is." Add to that 3 years in between the movies, and you have an anticipation for a movie that was never seen before, and never will be seen again.

"Sloop - "Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." I think the Dark Side is preventing you from just enjoying the movies."

bb, believe me: nothing would've made me happier than these movies being as good as the first three. I'd love to embrace them, but I'm sorry, they all just suck.

If you put out a Star Wars movie, it HAS to be an A+. Nothing below that is good enough. All these movies struggle to be C's.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Just a 60 year old man who had one phenomenal idea in his life, and whose ego's grown way too big for his britches since he gave us that idea 28 years ago.
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I would submit to you that none of the Star Wars movies are his best work or ideas. I think "American Graffiti" is easily his best movie, and that "THX 1138" might be his best sci-fi movie.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Anyone who refers to Jedi as 'weak' or would put any of these prequels in the same class as it are probably too young to have lived through the original trilogy as it progressed, as I suspect buckeyegrad is.
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He's about 6 or 7 months younger than you.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
There is no 'vision' here anymore. Just a 60 year old man who had one phenomenal idea in his life, and whose ego's grown way too big for his britches since he gave us that idea 28 years ago.
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Yeah, I should have put "delusional view" instead of vision. Never said it was a good vision :p

One thing I would love to do is find someone who has never seen a Star Wars movie and then have them watch all 6 in order I-VI to see what they think. I think our biggest problem is having seen IV-VI and then I-III. It has distorted our views of these 6 movies. It will also be interesting in like 10 years when we have children (or when the children are old enough to see these movies) if we would show them in order or the order we saw them?

I still think what most of us will take away from this in 5 years from now is I-III never happened and if anything only fills in a couple of gaps of the original trilogy like a sidebar when they talk of the clone wars.
 
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