Star Wars (May the Force be with you)

[buckeyegrad]

Think about it: a Droid Army? You could just Force push all those Droids back and smash them to bits. Storm Troopers? They have weak minds that can be controlled via the Jedi Mind trick .. if I can control someone's mind, there's no way they're kicking my ass. Jango Fett? It took Luke all of 2 seconds to deal with Boba Fett in Return of the Jedi. General Grievious? Just telekinetically open up his chest plate and Force choke his heart.

By the same token, I've always wondered why Luke didn't reach out with the Force during the speeder bike chase and simply cause the machine to break apart. I also like how you "explain away" the "inconsistencies" I pointed out in the old trilogy, but it is completely wrong for someone to do the same thing with the prequels.

Oh, and Vader should have been near enough to sense the Falcon. Piett's Star Destroyer was in the same fleet around the astroid belt. They weren't that far away.....you think it would be easy for the most powerful Jedi.

Of course, I see you ignore the idea that the Force as a creative agent is more powerful than anything that destroys. Or that Vader says the Force is more powerful, not the Jedi's ability to use it. Oh well......

 

[sandgk]

Maybe Padme knew they were twins, but never told anyone. She was trying to hide the fact that she was pregnant, in the first place. Maybe she even never visited an obstetrician. Is that how you spell "obstetrician?" Whatever. Anyway, I never thought of that. You'd think that if SHE knew it was going to be twins, she'd at least tell Anakin.

You'd think those all-knowing all-seeing Jedi (or overly nosy Sith) would be able to tell Padme was A -- pregnant and B -- that there two vibrant new life forces in the womb.

(Heck my wife's mother sussed the missus was pregnant before she herself was sure -- and Ma-In-Law never worked on a psychic hotline).

BTW can we get Maximus to post again. I feel this page needs at least another five sigs of Jessica doing her groove in leather cut-aways.

 

[Zurp]

You'd think those all-knowing all-seeing Jedi (or overly nosy Sith) would be able to tell Padme was A -- pregnant and B -- that there two vibrant new life forces in the womb.

Ummm...I don't know. I don't have an answer. Maybe the Jedi don't really give a rat's ass. Why should they? Maybe lots of people hide the fact that they're pregnant. What makes Padme so special that the Jedi have to stop the war and the hunt for the Sith lord and they concentrate on what Padme is up to.

Like I said, I don't know. I'm just grasping for answers.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

Ask and ye shall receive......

 

[Sloopy45]

buckeyegrad: "I've always wondered why Luke didn't reach out with the Force during the speeder bike chase and simply cause the machine to break apart."

He didn't need to. He made pretty quick work of them anyway, don't you think?

"I also like how you "explain away" the "inconsistencies" I pointed out in the old trilogy, but it is completely wrong for someone to do the same thing with the prequels."

What inconsistencies?? Vader wasn't on the ship when Solo landed on it. That's not an inconsistency: that's you clutching at straws.

"you think it would be easy for the most powerful Jedi"

He wasn't necessarily 'the most powerful Jedi' at that point. That's a notion born from the Prequels.

"Of course, I see you ignore the idea that the Force as a creative agent is more powerful than anything that destroys. Or that Vader says the Force is more powerful, not the Jedi's ability to use it. Oh well......"

Look I can't comment on your rationalizations of what the Force is. I ignored it because its a deeper meaning that you took from a comment that should be taken at face value. Vader never said, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the CREATIVE power of the Force." He never said that. YOU're saying that. Note the difference.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Okay... this is really going too far.

Why didn't Palpatine view Ewoks as a threat... hmmm... maybe because they are little bears that live in the woods that look like Shih Tzu's?

What are you gong to spend your time worrying about... a Jedi who's been prophsisezed to restore balance to the force, or a wee Shih Tzu Bear?

CHRIIIIST.

that's funny, i don't remember any trees that look like little furry dogs...
(sorry, i couldn't resist... dangling modifers are funny) :p

Its already been established that a Sith/Jedi can only feel the presence of another Sith/Jedi that they've encountered before.

Who established that? when? did you make this rule up too?

if what you were saying about Jedi Powers is true, why did Obi Wan have to resort to using a blaster to kill Grevious? don't give that 'cuz the prequels suck' crap, either... i want a real answer...

"you think it would be easy for the most powerful Jedi"

He wasn't necessarily 'the most powerful Jedi' at that point. That's a notion born from the Prequels.

OH COME ON!!! EVERYONE knew that Vader was the biggest badass in the Galaxy... besides, hadn't he already KILLED all the other Jedi? wouldn't that, by default, make him the most powerful?

 

[Sloopy45]

lvbuckeye: "Who established that? when? did you make this rule up too?"

I didn't make up a thing. Its all in the movie. Go and watch them. What more do you want? I can quote the ENTIRE movie instead of just excerpts.

"if what you were saying about Jedi Powers is true, why did Obi Wan have to resort to using a blaster to kill Grevious? don't give that 'cuz the prequels suck' crap, either... i want a real answer..."

??? I'm saying that the prequels are inconsistent BECAUSE a Jedi has to use a blaster, etc. Given the folklore that was established, Obi-Wan shouldn't have to use a blaster .. he can just open up Grievious' chest and force choke his heart to smithereens. I said this already.

"OH COME ON!!! EVERYONE knew that Vader was the biggest badass in the Galaxy... besides, hadn't he already KILLED all the other Jedi? wouldn't that, by default, make him the most powerful?"

He didn't kill Yoda and he was the Emperor's bitch. Either of them could've technically been more powerful than Vader. It wasn't until the Prequels established that Vader was the "Chosen One", had more midi-chlorians (which is another stupid thing, but that's a topic for another day), and was concieved immaculately that we heard he was indeed the # 1 most powerful Jedi.

 

[lvbuckeye]

p.s. so... no bootlegs there?

 

[Sloopy45]

LV: "p.s. so... no bootlegs there?"

I don't know. I don't do the bootleg thing. I'm content waiting for the DVD to come out so I can see the Deleted Scenes. That's the only interest I have in seeing this movie again.

 

[BuckeyeLuvChild]

Sloopy 45, you are absolutely correct. Just an observation though: Lucas wouldn't want Obi-Wan to do anything that graphic because he is a hero, and in Lucas' head, that isn't what a hero would do with the Force. Yoda told Luke that the Force was for "knowledge and defense, never for attack", so that would apply as a reason for why Obi-Wan used a blaster (at least in Lucas' head). Then again, that force shove that he and Yoda were using has been seen as crossing the line in the Extended Universe and RPGs, so the rules are changing.

As for Vader being the bigger bad-ass? Also in the Extended Universe / RPGs its been a "rule" that cybernetics dampen a force user's ability to use the Force whether light / dark sider. I have no idea why this should be true, but it could play a factor. I mean, losing a limb = midichlorian loss? LOL. Whatever the case may be, its established that 20 years after Episode 3, Vader still hasn't overthrown the Emperor on his own. My guess is either Vader is controlled via the same device that keeps him alive (the armor), has lost power (ridiculous, but not my universe), or simply has no desire to rule alone (offered to Padme and Luke to rule the universe together).

 

[Sloopy45]

BLC: "Just an observation though: Lucas wouldn't want Obi-Wan to do anything that graphic because he is a hero, and in Lucas' head, that isn't what a hero would do with the Force."

Just my opinion, but I don't think it goes that far. Personally, I think Lucas is a 60 year old man with no cool ideas anymore. He couldn't come up with a threat or a plot for the Jedi in these movies, so he revises the story, makes them weaker, and writes in that they can be killed by Droids or Grievious, because he can't come up with anything better.

I don't think its un-hero like for Kenobi to kill Grievious in that fashion, if it is indeed in defense of himself.

"Then again, that force shove that he and Yoda were using has been seen as crossing the line in the Extended Universe and RPGs, so the rules are changing."

Um, just so you guys know: I am a huge fan of the movies (obviously). But I don't know anything regarding the lingo. I don't know what 'fan boy,' 'extended universe,' or 'RPGs' mean. So if you reference them, please keep in mind that I have no idea what you're talking about.

"As for Vader being the bigger bad-ass?"

No reason to explain it away. If you want the real reason, here goes: Lucas is making this up as he goes along. He's either too lazy, too arrogant, or not creative enough to actually write a script that's in-line with the first three movies. Hell, even the frickin' prequels aren't consistent with one another. He didn't realize that Vader was an apprentice for 20 years when he was writing the Phantom Menace, so after he wrote that he was indeed 'the most powerful Jedi,' he has to chalk it up to something else, like limb loss or something stupid.

If you or buckeyegrad would like me to detail the major inconsistencies in the Prequels themselves (forgetting about 4-5-6), I'd be glad to. Even more reason why they suck.

"I mean, losing a limb = midichlorian loss? LOL."

Midichlorians is another stupid Lucas idea that the fans hated & was slowly taken out of the Prequels. How frickin' dumb.

 

[LRABuck]

BLC: "Just an observation though: Lucas wouldn't want Obi-Wan to do anything that graphic because he is a hero, and in Lucas' head, that isn't what a hero would do with the Force."

Just my opinion, but I don't think it goes that far. Personally, I think Lucas is a 60 year old man with no cool ideas anymore. He couldn't come up with a threat or a plot for the Jedi in these movies, so he revises the story, makes them weaker, and writes in that they can be killed by Droids or Grievious, because he can't come up with anything better.

A Jedi is resourceful. Grievous was part organic. A blaster lay nearby. What is the most efficient way to dispose of an organic being when you are dangling from a Reeeeeeeally high ledge?

You use the blaster. Uncivilized, but it works

Um, just so you guys know: I am a huge fan of the movies (obviously). But I don't know anything regarding the lingo. I don't know what 'fan boy,' 'extended universe,' or 'RPGs' mean. So if you reference them, please keep in mind that I have no idea what you're talking about.

Fanboy = simple term to describe someone who is a passionate fan of a certain film/book/team. I assume that most of us here are OSU fanboys/girls.

Extended Universe = Can be many things: Science Fiction writers were given license by Lucasfilm to write "EU" books which take place in between/beyond the movies. These introduce characters, force powers, weapons, ships, planets, et cetera that were not "CANON" (i.e. from one of Lucas' movies.) Lucasarts has released a number of video games (I'm currently playing KOTOR II, an AWESOME game), all of which have storylines that introduce characters and such. However, as there can be possibly contradictory material in the EU books (since more than 1 person wrote/created them) it is generally assumed that Lucas' films are the canon, and anything beyond that is "Extended Universe" and is subject to incorrectness.

RPG = Role Playing Games... Anything from Dungeons and Dragons with their dice rolls and complex attribute systems to computer games like Ultima or Star Wars' Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR). Games that allow a player to assume the role of his/her own character and have that character become a true personality whose choices affect the game. Much more "personal" than a game like, say, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, where you play a certain character with a backstory you learn about rather than telling OTHERS about the backstory YOU created. It's pure escapism. :)

Have you seen the DVD version of Return of the Jedi? If not, do. You'll find a surprise during the celebration at the end: Lucas digitally removed the old actor playing Anakin from where they appear to Luke in blue spirit form, and inserted Hayden Christensen. The excuse was that "Anakin was restored to the way he was BEFORE he became Darth Vader." Personally, I like the change. I know a TON of people were up in arms over it. But it does a great job of tying the two trilogies together. What do you think?

 

[lvbuckeye]

umm... he hates it... or maybe you missed his last 30 posts in this thread... :p

 

[buckeyegrad]

Midichlorians is another stupid Lucas idea that the fans hated & was slowly taken out of the Prequels. How frickin' dumb.

Finally!!! We agree on something. I didn't like the idea of the midichlorians at all and thought it diminished the overall view of the Force. However, I didn't let this ruin the Star Wars experience for me. After all, it is Lucas' vision, not mine, so its his call and who am I to say it is wrong. Interestingly enough, I know a guy who was a Mol Gen major and he loved the idea of the midichlorians because it made the Force less "spiritual", which he thought was a plus. Just goes to show you that an improvement or detraction to the saga depends on "a certain point of view."

One thing I think I have enjoyed about the prequels and the evolution of the Star Wars saga is that Lucas has allowed us to see the creative process at work and how one idea affects and alters previous ideas. Typically, we only get to see the final product of someone's movie, book, etc, and we don't get to see all of the changes that occur before that product reaches us. I guess I appreciate this type of stuff as I play around with my own ideas for a story that I hope to write someday. Already, my hero has transformed through 5 different origins.

Tolkien is another great example of seeing this process of creation. Thanks to his son Christopher, Tolkien's multiple drafts of Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion can now be read. It is interesting to see Aragon morph from a wild hobbit called Trotter to the lost king we see of him. Even more interesting is to see the transformation of Sauron from originally being a giant cat named Thu to becoming a vampire-type creature in the Silmarillion, and then becoming the right-hand demon of Morgoth and what we see him finally in Lord of the Rings. By looking at these changes and the overall creative process, we can understand the so-called "inconsistencies" and appreciate the effort made by the author in trying to transform different ideas into one coherent story. A perfect example of this is why are the Ring Wraiths so much more powerful in Return of the King compared to how they act in Fellowship of the Ring? (Strange that I have never heard of anyone saying Tolkien was an idiotic, washed-up writer, with no clue as to what he was doing as result of this difference.) To see how storytelling is an organic, evolving process instead of a static one is very enjoyable.

 

[BrutusMaximus]

grad, you read wayyyyyy too much bro :)