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jimotis4heisman
Banned
BuckeyeMike80;1170544; said:
those teams are young and physical. they are skilled yet physical. nash, towes etc are the type of players that detroit struggles with. also those teams they are the most likely to play on back to back or 2 in 3 types. michel should take a note. the real issue is that is outside of the pens game, step outside of your game and you end up taking dumb penalties a la malone...
OHSportsFan9;1170539; said:
you have to protect the netminders, you just have to. like quarterbacks in football they are too valueable. no denying that ozzie went down easy, that being say id still protect the goaltenders.
BuckeyeMike80;1170548; said:
malkins a horse and was rode hard all series. malkin doesnt look healthy to me. that being said hes played a halfway decent two way game. sid seems to be floating a lot to me.
i said a few months ago about the wide open east. i think you are seeing that this series. the east tends to have a much more open neutral ice game. this allowed the pens to float through the zone with the puck. look at detroit they want to move the puck via pass vs the pens with the puck on thier twig. id like to see the pens d use a rink wide pass then attack vs just shoveling the puck towards the centre cirlce in the neutral ice.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
thats the basketball saying. id always heard that the series doesnt start till someone drops the gloves. pavel d dropped one last night, but not to fight. it just slipped off his paw...
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daveeb
Hall of Fame
I can't fault Fleury for these losses. His defense is quiting in front of him, and Osgood looks amazing. Malkin looks dead. And the Red Wings look like they have 6 players on the ice.
Haven't been this overwhelmed and heartbroken by a set of games since, well, '07 BCS Championship and '08 BCS Championship. This is just tough to watch. If this keeps up, it will be the 5th time in 2 years that my team has made it to the championship game/series of it's sport and lost (Buckeye football twice, Buckeye basketball once, Cavs, Pens).
This is just rough.
They have to pick it up.
Haven't been this overwhelmed and heartbroken by a set of games since, well, '07 BCS Championship and '08 BCS Championship. This is just tough to watch. If this keeps up, it will be the 5th time in 2 years that my team has made it to the championship game/series of it's sport and lost (Buckeye football twice, Buckeye basketball once, Cavs, Pens).
This is just rough.
They have to pick it up.
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that's a cute saying and all.....but that's just saying it's not over until it's 3-0. well when it's 3-0, everybody already knows it's over.
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daveeb
Hall of Fame
But yeah, for the record, not all of the Penguins have been playing poorly. Crosby has been giving it his all the whole series, and he has been making chances. Hossa has been strong. Staal has not been terrible imo. Kennedy is giving it his all.
It just seems like so many players on that team are basically overwhelmed or just dead tired. I mean, Malkin is just really really really tired. And he sometimes plays really stupid games, where it seems like he just doesn't care. Really weird player.
It just seems like so many players on that team are basically overwhelmed or just dead tired. I mean, Malkin is just really really really tired. And he sometimes plays really stupid games, where it seems like he just doesn't care. Really weird player.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
ozzie hasnt been challenged. the pens have yet to put more than one or two oppourtunities on net all series. they have 26 5v5 shots in two games. and were outchanched 4 to 2 on 4v4play last night. they have yet to generate one shorthanded shot.daveeb;1170848; said:
malkin has the second longest average shift length of the pens, including the dmen. hes on the ice to long at a time. period. personally id move staal of the centre and up on a wall. staal has played some serious pk time this series.
i dont know about the defense it looks like tome that the entire pens team isnt working together. they arent getting pucks deep. and when they do the chip is awful. this is allowing osgood to stickhandle pucks and set up his defence. 2-the defence of the wings mobility is underrated. zetterburg and datsyuk can stick handle ini phone booths and make three foot dump passes to allow and set up the break out pass. i have yet to see break out pass out of the pens end. the wings have been able to clear the zone with ease, creating three things 1-time, 2-space 3-speed going into the neutral zone. game one the pens sat back and gave teh wings the zone, game two they came up and pressed at the blueline with both blueliners. given the three things above youre gonna get roasted if you do it. time, space, and speed will generate everytime against guys standing flat footed at the blueline.
maybe getting out of the joe will help. the dasher at the joe is as tight as anywhere in the league. i dont know what its made of but its fast, hard and tough to read if you arent used to it...
BuckeyeNation27;1170850; said:
two shut outs the math is now 30 of 31 teams have closed it out after that...
daveeb;1170857; said:
sids been floating to much, they pens have registered no short handed shots, created no pressure short handed. this is an issue with sid, he has 1m of pk time. sids ability to create pressure and work the best offence players of the wings can help wear on them. sids had good jump. id play sid more on the pk, even if he is a d liability. though for all the man love for the savior it should be noted he has 1 hit the entire series. 1 hit.
mackenzie pointed out the osgood issue the best way-its garden variety stuff, nothing bad but its there. you cant ignore it. did he flop, yup. but you cant touch the netminder. the real issue the pens cant get rubber by him, or even when the games close rubber on him, not him flopping twice when bumped.
michel complaining about obstruction sounds like the sens last year. its a reality that ive said before you have eastern teams who play a handful of western teams all year and they play not even enough games to use up all my fingers on in wester barns. its a reality that teams in the west are more physical. call it obstruction, say some play a game that rhymes with rapping and starts with a t-dont dare say that word or youll putoff the hockey purists- but it is a reality. its interesting that the powers to be of the eastern teams that dont want a more balanced schedule has it bite them in the rear. the wings are one of if not the softest team in the west. they are however highly skilled, theyve beaten on the pens out of their game and it has shown, the said thing is the sweedes and euros of the pens have done this to them...
i said it before i think the west is deeper and better than the east. while im on a soapbox, every team should play in every building every year.
stuart and kronwall are +6
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3074326
Assistant to the Head Coach
BuckeyeNation27;1170850; said:
I'm saying something similar to that, but something more like "It's not over until it's 3-0 and the Pens have lost at home."
If the Pens get back to Detroit even at 2-2, they'll have a considerable amount of momentum. That being said, I don't like their chances. The best they've played in the finals hasn't been good enough.
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daveeb
Hall of Fame
Are you seriously bringing conference allegiance into this? That's a college sports thing.
The East can't deal with how physical the West is? Jeez, that sounds about as right as "The Big Ten cannot deal with the SEC speed", or anything to that degree. It's about who the better team is, not what the better conference is. The Penguins were 8-1-1 against the West this year. They just didn't play the Central (Or, more specifically, Detroit). They beat:
-Anaheim
-Minnesota
-Dallas
-Calgary
-Vancouver
-Edmonton (Nothing worth bragging about)
-Phoenix (Nothing worth bragging about)
-LA Kings (Nothing worth bragging about)
And they only lost to Colorado and San Jose. San Jose was a SO loss. Colorado was at Colorado.
Whilst I do agree the East should play the West more (Because I like seeing everyone play everyone), conference has nothing to do with it. Talent, experience, and execution do.
The fact that the Penguins are being outshot and that the Red Wings are playing at a fast pace is what is killing them. Hits has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Penguins are outhitting Detroit 64-60. They outhit them in last night's contest 39-29. They are getting used to that.
Detroit is just reading the offense that the Pens are throwing out really well. They are reacting fast. They are eating up everything the Pens try and do. And they are very, very good at boxing the net. Luckily the refs are taking care of the penalties that go on behind the goal (You know, the high sticking ones?).
There is just a huge possibility that Detroit is that much better than everyone else. The league is filled with parity throughout the rest of it. Maybe Detroit is just that good. They are just better at reacting than the Penguins are at acting.
Sid's game doesn't involve hitting as much as it involves pressure. And, you are right. He should be on the PK. But, he has been playing well. He is making some things happen that no one else is (Except for Staal).
By the way, Therrien is right about one thing: The Penguins never go out to the goalie. We don't do that, period. Malone doesn't do that, period. We are better than that. I don't know what happened, but my guess is that it was either an accident or a misunderstanding. I can't believe Malone would intentionally do that.
And, the word you were looking for was trapping. It's in the game. Jacques Lemaire did a great job with it. It's a fine system.
Obstruction is different than trapping. Obstruction is hitting someone who doesn't have the puck. Obstruction is illegal. Trapping is not.
Trapping is simple:
- Team A has the puck in its own zone and is starting an attack.
- Team B - the trapping team - retreats to the neutral zone (between the bluelines).
- When the Team A puck-carrier crosses his own blueline, he sees a lot of wrong-colored jerseys, little room to maneuver and not many options for a safe pass.
- He ices the puck, tries to force a high-risk pass, or turns it over by trying to skate through too many bodies.
- If they retrieve the puck and see an opportunity, Team B gets a decent scoring chance going back the other way. What's more likely is that they throw the puck down the ice and line up in their trapping formation again.
- Repeat as necessary.
I do not see anything in there that says "Make sure that Team B hits people that don't have the puck."
Show me a link where it says that the Eastern teams don't want a balanced schedule. Maybe that is the Canadian teams or something.
I still stand by my belief that the Red Wings are playing great hockey, and the Pens are still having issues keeping up with the Wings. Plus, Malkin's head is not in the game. One shot in two games. One shot! He has stated he is tired. I believe it. Maybe it is shifts, maybe it is season length.
The East can't deal with how physical the West is? Jeez, that sounds about as right as "The Big Ten cannot deal with the SEC speed", or anything to that degree. It's about who the better team is, not what the better conference is. The Penguins were 8-1-1 against the West this year. They just didn't play the Central (Or, more specifically, Detroit). They beat:
-Anaheim
-Minnesota
-Dallas
-Calgary
-Vancouver
-Edmonton (Nothing worth bragging about)
-Phoenix (Nothing worth bragging about)
-LA Kings (Nothing worth bragging about)
And they only lost to Colorado and San Jose. San Jose was a SO loss. Colorado was at Colorado.
Whilst I do agree the East should play the West more (Because I like seeing everyone play everyone), conference has nothing to do with it. Talent, experience, and execution do.
The fact that the Penguins are being outshot and that the Red Wings are playing at a fast pace is what is killing them. Hits has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Penguins are outhitting Detroit 64-60. They outhit them in last night's contest 39-29. They are getting used to that.
Detroit is just reading the offense that the Pens are throwing out really well. They are reacting fast. They are eating up everything the Pens try and do. And they are very, very good at boxing the net. Luckily the refs are taking care of the penalties that go on behind the goal (You know, the high sticking ones?).
There is just a huge possibility that Detroit is that much better than everyone else. The league is filled with parity throughout the rest of it. Maybe Detroit is just that good. They are just better at reacting than the Penguins are at acting.
Sid's game doesn't involve hitting as much as it involves pressure. And, you are right. He should be on the PK. But, he has been playing well. He is making some things happen that no one else is (Except for Staal).
By the way, Therrien is right about one thing: The Penguins never go out to the goalie. We don't do that, period. Malone doesn't do that, period. We are better than that. I don't know what happened, but my guess is that it was either an accident or a misunderstanding. I can't believe Malone would intentionally do that.
And, the word you were looking for was trapping. It's in the game. Jacques Lemaire did a great job with it. It's a fine system.
Obstruction is different than trapping. Obstruction is hitting someone who doesn't have the puck. Obstruction is illegal. Trapping is not.
Trapping is simple:
- Team A has the puck in its own zone and is starting an attack.
- Team B - the trapping team - retreats to the neutral zone (between the bluelines).
- When the Team A puck-carrier crosses his own blueline, he sees a lot of wrong-colored jerseys, little room to maneuver and not many options for a safe pass.
- He ices the puck, tries to force a high-risk pass, or turns it over by trying to skate through too many bodies.
- If they retrieve the puck and see an opportunity, Team B gets a decent scoring chance going back the other way. What's more likely is that they throw the puck down the ice and line up in their trapping formation again.
- Repeat as necessary.
I do not see anything in there that says "Make sure that Team B hits people that don't have the puck."
Show me a link where it says that the Eastern teams don't want a balanced schedule. Maybe that is the Canadian teams or something.
I still stand by my belief that the Red Wings are playing great hockey, and the Pens are still having issues keeping up with the Wings. Plus, Malkin's head is not in the game. One shot in two games. One shot! He has stated he is tired. I believe it. Maybe it is shifts, maybe it is season length.
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