Some BCS facts for your SEC friends

[GeauxTigers99]

I thought Florida beat us last year 41-14 not LSU?

That is what I love about SEC fans. They always bring up "the conference". Your teacher made a direct reference to OSU's record vs. LSU's record. You respond with a remark that has nothing to do with what your teacher put on the board.

Didn't you guys lose to Kentucky this year. They eeked in to the polls this week at 25

I don't think that any team that loses to Kentucky in football should be able to argue about anything. If I were you, I would pray that Kansas loses.

just friendly trash talk, nothing more, nothing less. Take a step off your pedastal and realize people can have a little friendly banter w/o being rude.

And you're right, LSU lost to Kentucky this year. In triple overtime, on the road, at their peak of the season, after a hard fought game w/ Florida. We had also played a South Carolina team the week before that was ranked in the Top 15, followed by a game w/ an Auburn team that's playing pretty good football right now too. Oh yeah, we just finished beating a ranked Bama team in an emotional game, where the Tigers played probably the sloppiest football I've seen in a while.

Keep playing that strong Big Ten schedule, and keep running your mouth. If I were you, I'd pray that Kansas keeps winning.

 

[CausticMick]

Actually we pray we get to play LSU. Let's not forget your less than glorious games v. South Carolina, Tulane (until the 4th), Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. SEC speed is a falacy- a 4.4 is a 4.4 no matter if it's taken in Ohio, Florida, Louisiana, Washinton, Massachusetts, or frickin' China. Let last year's game go- at least when you get punched in the mouth on the first play you'll finally know.

 

[GeauxTigers99]

Actually we pray we get to play LSU. Let's not forget your less than glorious games v. South Carolina, Tulane (until the 4th), Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. SEC speed is a falacy- a 4.4 is a 4.4 no matter if it's taken in Ohio, Florida, Louisiana, Washinton, Massachusetts, or frickin' China. Let last year's game go- at least when you get punched in the mouth on the first play you'll finally know.

As I've said before, I hope you guys get what you wish for. :cheers:

Look, I have no problem respecting Ohio State, or the history of the Big Ten. I also realize that this is not last year, and more importantly, I believe that last year's blowout was a fluke to begin with. I really don't believe that Florida was the better team by 30pts. The better team, yes, but not by that margin.

Good luck the next 2 weeks Buckeyes, hopefully we can start comparing matchups b/w our two teams soon.

 

[Gatorubet]

Actually we pray we get to play LSU. Let's not forget your less than glorious games v. South Carolina, Tulane (until the 4th), Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. SEC speed is a falacy- a 4.4 is a 4.4 no matter if it's taken in Ohio, Florida, Louisiana, Washinton, Massachusetts, or frickin' China. Let last year's game go- at least when you get punched in the mouth on the first play you'll finally know.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don't get what one of Charlie Weis's vitamins and sparklers have to do with this thread.

 

[Gatorubet]

I don't get what one of Charlie Weis's vitamins and sparklers have to do with this thread.

Great post. I agree.

 

[NateG]

I don't get what one of Charlie Weis's vitamins and sparklers have to do with this thread.

Well if you break it down it really isnt that far :topic:.


See Weis coaches for Notre Dame who got sparkled last year by LSU.

Geaux is obviously a LSU tiger fan.
but other than that i'm clueless too.

 

[Zem]

I don't get what one of Charlie Weis's vitamins and sparklers have to do with this thread.

Perhaps everyone realizes this, but... Ohio State 0, SEC 8. It's a less fallacious argument than a LSU fan using 41-14. Hopefully the donut can be replaced with anything that looks like a 1 in January if it comes down to that.

Charlie Weis's Irish are currently 1-8, and his staple was used as the zero. Omen?

 

[Coqui]

As I've said before, I hope you guys get what you wish for. :cheers:

Look, I have no problem respecting Ohio State, or the history of the Big Ten. I also realize that this is not last year, and more importantly, I believe that last year's blowout was a fluke to begin with. I really don't believe that Florida was the better team by 30pts. The better team, yes, but not by that margin.

Good luck the next 2 weeks Buckeyes, hopefully we can start comparing matchups b/w our two teams soon.

I think there were 4 main factors that caused it to be a blowout (not necessarily just the victory)

10% related to Leaving it all out onf the field for the Michigan game.
5% Long layoff time.
45% Getting too cocky and sleeping on the opponent.
40% Our #1 go to receiver injured on the first play of the game (who Smith always looked first to)

Take out all those factors and I assume it would have been a much closer game. Florida still would have won IMO, but not by much.

 

[CausticMick]

Perhaps everyone realizes this, but... Ohio State 0, SEC 8. It's a less fallacious argument than a LSU fan using 41-14. Hopefully the donut can be replaced with anything that looks like a 1 in January if it comes down to that.

Charlie Weis's Irish are currently 1-8, and his staple was used as the zero. Omen?

I don't get what the past has to do with the present. Ohio State won the Big Ten last year, therefore, we will win the BTC every year from here on.
Sounds pretty stupid, eh?

Nor do I understand how a team that narrowly escaped 5 if not 6 losses could possibly think they could cruise over any top-tier team. Is the SEC the best conference in the country? Probably, but LSU hasn't demonstrated too much superiority over any of it.

, and you spelled "Go" wrong. Betcha can't spell Ohio either.

 

[Zem]

I don't get what the past has to do with the present. Ohio State won the Big Ten last year, therefore, we will win the BTC every year from here on.
Sounds pretty stupid, eh?

, and you spelled "Go" wrong. Betcha can't spell Ohio either.

0-and-8 is a pattern suggesting Buckeye teams might have a problem stemming from the SEC teams' style of play. Or maybe it's a mental block. Whatever, it's a disturbing pattern that goes back to Woody, and was mainly established by you-know-who. Last year's NC game was just one game. Heading into it, I thought it was an excellent opportunity for redemption. :(

Nor do I understand how a team that narrowly escaped 5 if not 6 losses could possibly think they could cruise over any top-tier team. Is the SEC the best conference in the country? Probably, but LSU hasn't demonstrated too much superiority over any of it.

I don't think it's clear they are the best conference at all. LSU wasn't sloppy just in the 'Bama game. They've dropped an inordinate amount of passes, and committed a ton of penalties all year. Plus the bad coaching decisions, confused players.. Yet they keep beating these vaunted SEC teams.

Originally Posted by Coqui
I think there were 4 main factors that caused it to be a blowout (not necessarily just the victory)

10% related to Leaving it all out onf the field for the Michigan game.
5% Long layoff time.
45% Getting too cocky and sleeping on the opponent.
40% Our #1 go to receiver injured on the first play of the game (who Smith always looked first to)

I think most of it was a horrible game plan. The defense should have pressured Leak, and the offense should have run quicker, less slowly developing plays.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

0-and-8 is a pattern suggesting Buckeye teams might have a problem stemming from the SEC teams' style of play. Or maybe it's a mental block. ...

Or maybe it's a pattern suggesting:

• Woody's penultimate team got into a bowl they didn't deserve and our QB played it, by his own admission, coked out of his mind.
• Most of the games happened with John Cooper at the helm.
• Steve Bellisari didn't start the Outback Bowl for reasons well known
• Last January has been rehashed too much already

It's a new day...

 

[Bill Lucas]

Read this about the 0-8 record vs the SEC (in bowl games).



Ohio State is 0-8 vs the SEC in [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]bowl [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]games[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Chalk up one for the SEC. Heck, chalk up eight for the SEC. 0-8 is 0-8. It can't be defended. But in this case it can be explained.

The mounting second number after the dash is brought to the forefront each year around bowl time when the Big Ten vs the SEC, which is the best conference, debate rages at its most fierce. That second number reached eight when Ohio State was unexpectedly humiliated by Florida in the National Championship game.


As a Buckeyes' fan it seemed as though 0-8 was plastered all over every ESPN family of networks' graphic for the ensuing 24 hours. My co-workers who love to debate [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]college [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]football[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] picked up on the newly adjusted record and quickly used it as bullet number one in the battle over best conference.


For weeks we had been punching and counter-punching Big Ten vs SEC. Starting on January 9th, I would've thought the Buckeyes' lost eight games to the SEC this year. My pro-SEC debaters would boldly proclaim SEC superiority followed by their most convincing argument: Ohio State is 0-8 vs the SEC. It was used so many times against me I started to doubt what I'd seen for the past three months. I checked the Buckeyes' schedule for that shocking defeat to Vanderbilt at the Horseshoe and what about that embarrassment at Scott Field in Starkville, MS?

In reality, what I did was first explain in a most sarcastic tone that they could only use 0-1 as part of their argument for best conference. I took even great joy in asking them when this streak started. I knew no one had a clue.


The streak started under Woody Hayes. Most of my debaters know the name; know about the famous tantrums, but if they've ever seen the man stroll the sidelines it was on Zibrudor film quality on ESPN Classic.


On January 1, 1978, one year prior to winning their first of two consecutive national championships, Alabama whipped Ohio State 35-6. I watched that Sugar Bowl in horror. But my first two seasons as a Buckeyes' fan were also Woody Hayes' final two as Buckeyes' coach. Never a tactical genius, Woody had obviously lost the edge that drove his teams to outwork and out-will their opponents. [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Penn [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]State[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR], Oklahoma, Purdue, Michigan and Clemson in his last game. Woody lost all the big games in his final two seasons. That Alabama team finished 11-1 and # 2 in the country.

Earle Bruce succeeded Hayes and went 81-26-1 over nine seasons. He won four Big Ten Championships, finished in the Top Ten four times, went 5-4 vs Michigan and 5-3 in bowl games. Bruce never faced the SEC in a bowl game, losing to Alabama in the 1986 Kickoff Classic 16-10 and tying LSU in Baton Rouge in 1987. The Bama game was a hard fought clash between top ten teams. In '87 LSU and Ohio State faced as top five teams, but OSU stumbled to a 6-4-1 finish. LSU went 10-1-1.

Now we talk the John Cooper factor. Despite a number of accomplishments on paper, Buckeyes' fans look back on those 13 years with disappointment and disgust. Cooper coached 157 games in Columbus. Change the result of just a few of those contests and Cooper is now a legend. Despite winning 11 games three times and 10 games twice Cooper's legacy is losing the [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]big [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]game[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR].


The SEC beat Cooper five times. But Cooper was an equal opportunity whipping boy. Michigan beat him 10 times out of 12 decisions and he lost 8 of 11 bowl games. Cooper lost the 1990 [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Liberty [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bowl[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] to Air Force as a 17 point favorite. He lost that game with Robert Smith in the backfield, three [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NFL[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] receivers and a defense stocked with more pros. Some coaches know how to find a way to win. Cooper found a way to lose.


That said, Cooper's best teams didn't play the SEC in the postseason. The 1996 and '98 squads finished # 2 in the country after winning the Rose and Sugar Bowls against the Pac Ten and Big 12.


Before the current format of bowl slotting, prestigous programs like Ohio State were elevated to bowl games they didn't deserve. The 1989 Buckeyes finished 24th in the country, but played a top five Auburn team in the [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hall [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]of [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fame[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] Bowl. The '92 edition lost on a late touchdown to Georgia in the Citrus. UGA finished 8th. OSU finished 18th.


In 1994, 12-1 Alabama scored a touchdown in the closing minute to beat four times beaten Ohio State. Buckeyes' fans should credit Cooper with re-establishing OSU as a talent factory. But those teams routinely underachieved against everybody. Matching them up against higher rated SEC teams skews the equation greatly.

Following two paragraphs of Cooper bashing, I let the embattled coach exit this article with a blaze of glory. His first team at OSU; that terrible 4-6-1 group, beat a top five LSU team 36-33. Thank you Greg Frey and Bobby Olive. Go Bucks!


On the dawn of January 8th Jim Tressel was nearing sainthood. A few hours later such talk had been silenced. The Buckeyes were demolished. I've watched the game three times and each look makes it even less believable.


For as badly as the players were beaten, Tressel was outwitted ten times over. The man with a velvet touch in the big game served up a ragged game plan. He left his offensive tackles to fend for themselves well after it was proven that help was needed. He called three straight pass plays after his running game accounted for a touchdown to close the game to 21-14.


And worst of all, he refused to let the defense loose. He never challenged receivers and never forced Chris Leak to make a difficult throw. Florida's offense somehow thrived by running for 3.4 yards per carry and throwing the ball downfield once.


Buckeye defenders missed few tackles. It simply took an eternity to close on the ball. I never saw an OSU cornerback lineup on my TV screen. I begged Defensive Coordinator Jim Heacock to force Leak to make an [COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NFL [/FONT][COLOR=#980202! important][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]throw[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Just one, please?

Tressel's glossy big game record has picked up two smudges courtesy the SEC. His first team lost on a last second field goal to South Carolina 31-28. That team lost five games. That game could've gone either way. Those two teams could've won or lost against forty other teams in American on any given day.


The next year the Buckeyes jelled, navigated a rugged schedule and beat the unbeatable Miami Hurricanes to win the national championship.


Even the most ardent SEC supporters can't tell me that their conference champion, Georgia, would've won that game. Same thing for the '05 season, Tressel's second best team finished 4th in the country. SEC champ Georgia was ripped for 38 points by West Virginia. Give OSU that matchup too.

Penn State is 5-2 vs the SEC since 1990. Michigan owns the same mark. OSU's 0-6 record against the Southeastern Conference during that time would point to disaster against its two most competitive conference rivals, but we know better. The Buckeyes own the Big Ten's best record during that time and have won 15 of 27 against Joe Pa and the Maize and Blue.

The SEC argument is simple. 8-0 means we're better. Careful examination shows that timing can distort the meaning of eight games spread over 30 years. Reasoning doesn't change results, but it should change rationale.


____________________________________________

This article was submitted by Mark Rogers. Mark has worked in television for 16 years...9 years as a sportscaster...6 years covering the SEC (mostly Alabama, MSU and Ole Miss). For the past five years he has worked at ESPN in Network Operations.​

 

[Gatorubet]

The SEC argument is simple. 8-0 means we're better. Careful examination shows that timing can distort the meaning of eight games spread over 30 years. Reasoning doesn't change results, but it should change rationale.

Better beat the skunk bears or you'll go bowling with the SEC again instead of winning the Rose Bowl. :scum4:

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Better beat the skunk bears or you'll go bowling with the SEC again instead of winning the Rose Bowl. :scum4:

If we do, in fact, lose next week...

Bring It!