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Just visited another city, and yep, my town is gone from the face of the earth. Fantastic job Maxis.

Both problems happened right around the time I started a great work. Not sure that is the issue or not. Guess I am done with this game for a while since it's such a massive pile of crap.
 
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scott91575;2313998; said:
Deety, I sent you a pretty massive gift. It's 10 million simoleons. I did this because I am getting calculation errors on this city too and I wanted to send out some cash before it becomes unplayable. I also sent you some other gifts of money too (over 1 million) prior to that.
How YOU doin', Sugar Daddy? :p

I haven't been in the region yet, but I'll spread the wealth around to anyone connected.
 
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Deety;2314319; said:
How YOU doin', Sugar Daddy? :p

I haven't been in the region yet, but I'll spread the wealth around to anyone connected.

Don't expect it to show up. If you read the rest of the thread my city is now dead. Until I see a patch concerning my issues, I will not be playing again. I posted on the official problem forum, and there is a sticky for my issues (so I am not the only one). I doubt anything will be done about my specific cities, but there is some slight hope since there is a thread started by Maxis for my specific issues. I have a feeeling these issues will grow since I have certainly gotten further than most people in this game, and it was late game where I had my issues.
 
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THEWOOD;2314315; said:
scott91575, do you work? I envy all the time you have to spend playing simcity

Not right now. I quit my job to come home and help out my father (I hated my job anyway even though it paid well). Yet much of that just means being around and running errands. So that gives me plenty of free time to just play video games.

Eventually I will try and get one of those job things in the area.
 
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Now that I have reported my stuff to Maxis I decided to look around the forum. I found this interesting since I did run into the lack of worker issue...

As a user named ?anickle? brought up an experiment he made so he could understand why only a minor percentage (10-15%) of the sim population is considered workforce, I have decided to run the same experiment myself and stubled upon major flaws in the core game, flaws that are until now probably unknown for almost every player, if not all of them. This is new, and this is very concerning.

The credit of the idea goes to anickle, who performed his own version of the experiment, which can be found here:
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9359265.page

My experiment:

I started sandbox mode and built water, electricity and garbage facilities, police and fire stations and a clinic.

I built one single house, low density and low wealth, and stood obeserving them. The whole experiment is made entirely with this type of house.

One single house, as already explained by anickle, has a pop. of 6: 4 workers, 2 shoppers and actually 2 kids that are never included in the population count. So it is safe to assume that from now on, provided sims don?t die, my workers count and my shoppers count will always be: ?no. of houses x 4? (workers) or ?no. of houses x 2? (shoppers).

I kept building more houses and recording the increase in the numbers of workers and shoppers. As expected, all the numbers were perfectly fine. For a while. User marcoyim believed the pop. count started to go wrong at 500, so I tested for that, and he is absolutely right.

This is the count of the population and the number of workers and shoppers so far:

1 house = 6 pop, 2w + 4s
12 houses = 72 pop, 48w + 24s
53 houses = 318 pop, 212w + 106s
83 houses = 498 pop, 332w + 166s

And here it goes the odd part: as the next house was finished, the population count increased by 7, not by 6. As the next house was finished, the population count increased by 10, and at the next time it increased by 12.

BUT THE HOUSES CONTINUED WITH 6 PEOPLE (4W+2S).

So indeed, the game adds a phantom population in the count that doesn?t really exist, and I guess I figured out the general way in which it does that. I will put the numbers as they are easier to understand by themselves.

House 1, which would achive 500 or more in the pop count: 7 sims (6 real)
House 2: 10
House 3: 12
House 4: 13
(...)

I kept counting this for 41 houses, always subtracting the former pop count on the new one to find how many sims the game added in the pop count, while the houses always actually had 6 sims. The real progression I found was this:

7, 10, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 16, 17, 18, 17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19, 18, 19, 19, 19, 20, 19, 20, 20, 21, 20, 20, 21, 21, 20, 21, 21, 21, 22, 21, 21, 22, 22, 22.

The final house count was at 121 and the population was at 1.294, but I had 507 workers and 254 shoppers. If you do the math, I should have a little less (and 1 worker died too). It was not at the ?pop x 4? and ?pop x 2? ratio I told you before because 24 workers and 12 shoppers were added to the real population trough this process of adding phantom people. So as you see, they increase both real and ghost sims in our cities.

I stopped counting there as I though I already had the general idea, and I am sure you get it too: The game adds an increasing number of sims per house to the population count, in an organized way, without ever adding these sims in your actual city.

This is alarming, at least. It means that the game is not what is advertised (intentionally or not), it means glassbox does not process every sim individually. One can argue that each sim is technically tracked individually when it exist in the map, but that is not so true as I will continue below.

Besides the experiment above, playing with the concepts of the game brought me insights of how the engine works and how it is flawed at every level. Here are miscellaneous things I captured while doing the whole thing:

1. If you demolish a bulding that provides jobs, for ex. a power plant, while a worker is working, this worker is deleted along with the building. I managed to intentionally have a city with no workers by doing this. Note that I did it when I only had 2 houses, so I don?t know if that will ALWAYS happen.

2. After I closed the police, fire station and clinic, 1 worker at the police and 1 at the clinic took AGES to go out. It means that if you demolish it after closing, chances are you will lose one worker there.

3. The game does not know how to behave when sims die: If one sim die both the pop count and the workforce also goes down by 1 (so far so good), but the house where he lived keeps showing 6 citizens. Worse, if those sims leave your city the count will go down further 6 points instead of 5, meaning that you actually lose 7 sims, not 6.

4. Even if you only have 1 single house in the map, the house will show 3 kids running around it and 3 different sims appeared for me going in and out while 2 workers were at work. That means I saw 6 people + 3 kids (9 total), and these people, although (usually) maintaining their names, used different ?sprites?/models each time, with no consistency at all. There was no connection with the names and ?surname? of the house. The only rule was that sims that leave the house for working always had the same surname as the house. That means the sims are not ?real? agents, they are randomly generated each time, with different names and models every time, provided they are not going to work.

5. Numbers I gathered for you guys while playing:
Commercial: 5/10L, 2/4M, 0H (I found two different values for C, I guess different buildings have different job slots. There may be more)
Industrial: 20L, 6M, 0H (Again, there may be others)
Wind Power Plant jobs: 20L, 6M, 0H
Sewage facility: 0L, 0M, 0H
Garbage dump: 20L, 6M, 0H
Police: 10L, 4M, 0H
Fire Dept: 20L, 6M, 0H
Clinic: 12L, 8M, 4H

No wonder my town had a worker issue. I kept killing them off by rebuilding my town so many times.
 
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It's amazing how much time people unafiliated with he game and unpaid in any way spend on this stuff. It makes sense that EA has grown so lazy since a dedicated community has basically committed to do their jobs for them much better than they ever could for free. I just hope these issues that the community is doing such an amazing job of finding and documenting are addressed. I'm also still waiting for the Mac launch... :lol:
 
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Buckeye86;2314377; said:
It's amazing how much time people unafiliated with he game and unpaid in any way spend on this stuff. It makes sense that EA has grown so lazy since a dedicated community has basically committed to do their jobs for them much better than they ever could for free. I just hope these issues that the community is doing such an amazing job of finding and documenting are addressed. I'm also still waiting for the Mac launch... :lol:
They may find that making a game the community can't fix with mods doesn't work... literally.

I am swimming in moolah gifts now (wheeeee!), but need yous guys to connect to Sheeseles Seashells if you want a share. Until then, I'll be jumping in piles of it out in front of the Mayor's Mansion.
 
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Deety;2314378; said:
They may find that making a game the community can't fix with mods doesn't work... literally.

I am swimming in moolah gifts now (wheeeee!), but need yous guys to connect to Sheeseles Seashells if you want a share. Until then, I'll be jumping in piles of it out in front of the Mayor's Mansion.

I'm glad you got it. It just sucks I didn't send more before my city died. I had 50 million simoleons in my treasury when it went down.
 
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Deety;2314378; said:
They may find that making a game the community can't fix with mods doesn't work... literally.

I am swimming in moolah gifts now (wheeeee!), but need yous guys to connect to Sheeseles Seashells if you want a share. Until then, I'll be jumping in piles of it out in front of the Mayor's Mansion.

scrooge-mcduck.jpg


I'm glad you got it. It just sucks I didn't send more before my city died. I had 50 million simoleons in my treasury when it went down.
 
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I sent out a couple of invites to a region I created on the NAW4 server. The region is called BPNAE4, or something like that. Still waiting on reponses from some BPers on friend requests so once I get them I'll send out invites for them as well.

I am yet to see NAE2 available.
 
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scooter1369;2314476; said:
I sent out a couple of invites to a region I created on the NAW4 server. The region is called BPNAE4, or something like that. Still waiting on reponses from some BPers on friend requests so once I get them I'll send out invites for them as well.

I am yet to see NAE2 available.

I've been on NAE3 lately with my roomate, we built a 4 city region where we each have two cities.

I will look out for the NAE4 region invite though. UN: CJston15 if you haven't added me yet.
 
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