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Shaggy Texas - Shaggy Bevo, Thujone, MS Pain, Butt Hurt, and BBQ (RIP)

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LordJeffBuck said:
2005 Texas went 13-0 and defeated #2 Southern Cal, #4 Ohio State, #20 Texas Tech, and #22 Oklahoma. The Horns should've lost to both OSU and USC (both ended up being 3-point wins). They blew out the rest of their schedule by an average score of 53 to 14, with the closest game being a 40-29 road victory over arch rival Texas A+M.

By comparison, 2002 Ohio State went 14-0 and beat #2 Miami, #9 Michigan, #10 Washington State, and #16 Penn State. The Buckeyes had seven games that they won by seven points or less (two went into overtime), and all seven of those games could have been losses.

I'd say that it's pretty close between those two teams, which are arguably the best ever for each school, and in the discussion for best ever of all time. I wouldn't say that 2005 Texas was the best ever, or even in the top ten, but it's not really a ludicrous assertion, especially coming from a bunch of homers.
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Worth the distinction that Texas played Ohio State on the road and the Oklahoma game is a true 50/50 attendance split at the old Cotton Bowl. Then played USC in Pasadena.

Ohio State had all their major games at home and the Fiesta Bowl was decidedly a pro-Buckeye crowd by a 75/25 margin, at least.

Point to Texas on that comparison.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
As noted earlier, Texas arrogance is as much about a deep insecurity of how the rest of the country sees them as it is actual pride.
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Oh, baloney, ORD.

I understand everyone's knicker-twist syndrome relative to UT, but my kid spent 6 years of educational time in the state of Texas (none of which were at UT). I have to say that Texans are on balance the least insecure humans on the face of the earth.

Sometimes arrogance is just arrogance. Similarly, sometimes it's deserved.

UT's no longer is. Doesn't mean, though, it never will be again.
 
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jwinslow said:
They also beat the best dynasty of the BCS era, since the Cornhusker dominance predated that. And that was probably the best championship game of the era as well. So you can see how they get to that point.
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This statement doesn't identify a team, and could literally be taken to mean either one in the 2002/2005 comparison. I'm assuming you mean Texas ending USCs dynasty though.

Ohio St ended Miamis dynasty too. The 2000 Canes would have beaten anyone in the country by the end of the year. They had a 5 point loss in September at Washigton then ran the table, beating #7 Florida by three possessions in the Sugar Bowl. That Canes team would have beat Oklahoma if given the chance. The 2001 edition had the most absurd collection of future NFL All Pros assembled in the modern era. The 2002 team was favored by 2 TDs over Ohio State for a reason. That Fiesta Bowl was the most brutal game I've watched in my lifetime. At least 4 players have since admitted they participated in the 2nd overtime with concussions (Fox, Nickey, Krenzel, and Dorsey), and McGahee had his knee destroyed.
 
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LordJeffBuck said:
No idea, to be honest. Here is a LINK to Billingsley's methodology, but it says nothing about number of games played.

I found the updated Billingsley 200 list, which is current through 2014. Texas 2005 ranks #19.

Here's how Ohio State's team fare:

Ohio State Teams in the Billingsley Top 200
031. Ohio State 2002 (14-0-0) (349.108) (#1) (#1 AP)
035. Ohio State 1954 (10-0-0) (346.983) (#1) (#1 AP)
036. Ohio State 2014 (14-1-0) (344.763) (#1) (#1 AP)
047. Ohio State 1944 (_9-0-0) (311.796) (#1) (#2 AP)
057. Ohio State 1968 (10-0-0) (335.665) (#1) (#1 AP)
106. Ohio State 1996 (11-1-0) (325.654) (#3) (#2 AP)
121. Ohio State 1973 (10-0-1) (323.244) (#5) (#2 AP)
125. Ohio State 1961 (_8-0-1) (308.034) (#2) (#2 AP)
159. Ohio State 1975 (11-1-0) (316.018) (#2) (#4 AP)
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Having seen all the above Buckeye teams except 1954 and 1944, I can say with confidence that our reigning National Championship team is the best Buckeye team I've seen. Not particularly concerned about how "Billingsley" sees it.
 
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BuckTwenty said:
I've heard good arguments from people that know better than me that the '69 team was the most talented team OSU ever assembled. Just couldn't beat That Team that day in November.
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Problem with comparing pre 73 teams is the scholarship changes. Title IX passed in the summer of 72, so the 73 season imposed the limit of 105 scholarships. In 78 it dropped to 95, and in 92 it dropped again to 85. Pre-72, the Ohio States and Alabamas of the world routinely had 150+ scholarship players, and the freshmen didn't even play.

The other side of the coin is that while teams played fewer games, that's negligible because they weren't loading the home schedule with three cupcakes for gate and vending figures.

The real disparity was in the SEC, which did not have a standardized conference schedule. Some SEC teams played four conference game while others played seven.

Might as well have been a different sport. The game was fundamentally changed with TV rights in 84, and again with realignment, 85 scholarships, and the Bowl Coalition in 92-94.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
To be honest, this is the most fun I've had with the shag in months.

According to one of them, I'm "just a #$%^ing wine wholesaler who went to a [Mark May] university.

First off, I'm a wine importer, which may not be the coolest job out there, but I'm hardly sitting in a cubicle producing TPS reports. Oh well, when I'm in Florence this October as an all-expenses paid guest of the Chianti Classico Consorzio, sipping a Negroni on some sidewalk cafe, I'll undoubtedly be tortured with the knowledge of how [Mark May]ty my life is and how much better it could be had I gone to Tejas.

Secondly, as far as that [Mark May] university goes.......OOPS!

23455_zpsyghtvivm.jpg
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For some reason I was under the impression you also went to Chicago?
As careers go, wine importing seems decent. A lot of lawyers over there... but being a lawyer anymore is as crowded as getting a business degree.

jwinslow said:
They also beat the best dynasty of the BCS era, since the Cornhusker dominance predated that. And that was probably the best championship game of the era as well. So you can see how they get to that point.
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I'm honestly not sure if you're talking about the USC dynasty, or the Miami dynasty here. The 2002 and 2005 NCs are both classics imo... most of these games end up rather lopsided.

LordJeffBuck said:
This is a bit old (2008) and the link is now broken so I can't update the list, but here's how one computer pollster ranked the top teams of all time:



Here's another computer pollster (Berryman) who ranks 2005 Texas as the #7 team of all time and 2002 Ohio State as the #23 team of all time, both being the best ever for each school: LINK to Berryman's 100 best college teams of all time. Interestingly, the 1968 Ohio State team does not rank in the top 100, but 1996 (#48), 1975 (#50), 1973 (#76), and 1998 (#100) all do.

Of course, computers don't watch football games, so their objective formulas cannot possibly capture all the nuances of a subjective experience ("I know it when I see it"). But in this case, I do agree with the computers that the 2002 Ohio State team was the best Buckeye team of all time, with 2014, 1968, and 1954 also being in the discussion.
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The VTech game kinda kills it, but I'd honestly put 2014 ahead of 2002 if we're looking at the teams that went to the Natty. Having to go through #1, #2, and a B1G CCG (plus #8 MSU beating #5) kind of mitigates against the VTech too.
 
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Dryden said:
This statement doesn't identify a team, and could literally be taken to mean either one in the 2002/2005 comparison. I'm assuming you mean Texas ending USCs dynasty though.

Ohio St ended Miamis dynasty too. The 2000 Canes would have beaten anyone in the country by the end of the year. They had a 5 point loss in September at Washigton then ran the table, beating #7 Florida by three possessions in the Sugar Bowl. That Canes team would have beat Oklahoma if given the chance. The 2001 edition had the most absurd collection of future NFL All Pros assembled in the modern era. The 2002 team was favored by 2 TDs over Ohio State for a reason. That Fiesta Bowl was the most brutal game I've watched in my lifetime. At least 4 players have since admitted they participated in the 2nd overtime with concussions (Fox, Nickey, Krenzel, and Dorsey), and McGahee had his knee destroyed.
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kujirakira said:
I'm honestly not sure if you're talking about the USC dynasty, or the Miami dynasty here. The 2002 and 2005 NCs are both classics imo... most of these games end up rather lopsided.
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OSU crushed the Miami dynasty, but I don't think Coker keeps it rolling either way. Contrast that with Carroll who was the best college coach for awhile and was one playcall away from challenging for best NFL coach at the moment.

Both 02 & 05 were absolute classics, though most folks enjoyed 05 much more because of the offense. The media and casual fans typically cannot appreciate savage defensive battles (I'd say unless they were in the SEC, but frankly I don't think most bought into ESPN's propaganda about that LSU-Bama game).

Even if you give OSU the #1 spot (which most will not, especially given the perception of the flag), USC-Texas was a very close second.
 
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