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Rich Rodriguez (official thread of last laughs)

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HailToMichigan;1068648; said:
OCBucksFan -

You're asking why I continue to stand up for Rodriguez when it seems clear to all in scarlet and gray that he's lower than a snake.

First, see above, it's part of my point.

Next, I wouldn't be here - a Michigan fan on an Ohio State site - if I didn't enjoy the arguments. Rep dings be damned. If I get a red mark or two for being a homer, so what? I like the arguments. I hope it spices things up for you guys too. It's more fun than reading 200 posts from fellow Michigan fans that those dingbats in Columbus are out to get us. (Almost unanimously, Michigan fans are thrilled to have hired Rodriguez and don't have the slightest concern in the world that Buckeye fans don't like him.)

Do you not think that RR deserves even the slightest benefit of the doubt from Michigan fans? Nobody is perfect. Of course we know that RR has some sketchy recruits on his record. Of course we think he'd have done better by waiting four hours to call Terrelle Pryor. Of course we wish he'd just pay or settle the $4M, and that the school would step up to help. (Though I imagine the school's hands became tied a bit when WVU filed the lawsuit.) The ideal coach is a flame-wielding seraphim with access to Jim Tressel's playbook, but that doesn't exist. And yes, even Tressel has a blotch or two on his record. If you're willing to overlook the giant shitstain that is Maurice Clarett and all the accusations and allegations that swirled around him, surely I'm allowed to overlook Pac-Man Jones and Noel Devine - both of whom, it has not escaped my notice, along with Chris Henry, managed to stay out of trouble while at WVU. ("But Pat Lazear!" I've addressed that too. At WVU, you take what you can get. RR is not the entire athletic dept. and I have my doubts he'll be allowed to recruit felons to the school, and he really won't need to, so I'm not concerned. I'll be disappointed if he does, but I don't think he will.)

Anyway, I do think Michigan fans owe RR the benefit

We are not supporting RR for no other reason than "doing well in the Big East." He's been successful at every stop with far fewer resources than he'll have at Michigan. He brings with him a terrific-looking cadre of assistants.

This may well be a lose-only position, at least on a Buckeye site. I don't care. There will never be some tell-all exonerating event that will make you guys go, "wow, we were so wrong about this guy!" The likely scenario as I see it will be that this shredding stuff goes away quietly, because there's very little to it IMO, and many of you guys will continue to believe the worst. When I post things about, say, RR visiting players at their homes and taking an interest in their lives, all I get in reply is, "Do you really think that would change my opinion?" Would anything? I don't get an answer to that question. I could post the story on ESPN where RR pretty much denies everything, but would anyone here believe it? So I don't harbor any illusions that you guys will jump to my side and "see the light" as it were, but I don't care. I believe what I believe about the guy, and I don't believe anything even approaching the worst, and I'm not gonna change what I say and shut up or suck up just to curry favor.
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HTM, if you tead my previous post on this thread I think you will know that I don't believe alot of the rumor and innuendo flying around right now. There are two sides to every story and WVU are not just an innocent bystander in all of this. As I posted on another forum:

I personally can't fathom a person acting this way towards something that he once cared about without any provocation. WVU is in no way, in my eyes, the innocent victim in this case. There is alot of dirty laundry in the air in this case and most of it has been provoked by Morgantown, some of it rightfully and some of it should have been handled behind closed doors. Translation, it's none of our bussiness and certainly none of the "we right stories based less on fact and more on inuendo and rumors" ESPiN media. WVU is more than aware what they are doing and I bet they know much of it is inappropriate and they should be held accountable as well.
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So please take this the appropriate way, Please put yourself in the other side of this scenario.

At the end of the 2010 season TSUN finishes as the Big 10 Co-Champion and based upon the head to head tiebreaker earns a trip to the Rose Bowl. Mack Brown has chosen to retire as the Texas HC and they are aggresively looking for his successor. They attempt to lure away Alum Major Applewhite. When he chooses to stay put in his current position they tur their attention to Butch Jones a highly sought after up and coming young coach. When he turns them down they set up a meeting with another candidate. At this same time your coach takes an unplanned trip to Kansas City. When asked if he has any interest in the opening at Texas he says he is now a "Michigan Man" and thats where he intends to stay even though he courted USC last year after Pete Carroll left to take over the Oakland Raiders. Then the next day it comes out across the internet that your coach has accepted the job at Texas. The situation get's messier when it comes to light that the source of this information happens to be the best high school player in the nation who he apparently called before telling his own team. That player now has Texas on his list and you are off. Then a bad situation gets worse when he will not coach you in the Rose Bowl and the downward sprial continues when in his introductory press conference in Austin he proclaims that he intends to fight the 5 million dollar buyout in his contract because your University didn't live up to your end of the agreement in his opinion. Now most recently upon returning from an emotional victory in the Rose Bowl and a well deserved break you come to find that many if not all of the records he produced while coach are missing. I know it seems far fetched, but how would it make you feel?

And the visits you speak of him having with TSUN players and talking about having an interest in their life. Don't you think he had those same discussions and in home visits with the players from WVU?

There are two sides to each story and this one i'm sure is far from over.
 
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HailToMichigan;1068668; said:
Clarification: I don't mean news outlets. They're just reporting. Opinion columnists - you know, the Dennis Dodds of the world - they have deadlines too.
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Thanks for the clarification - your definition of interest then only applies to message boards, my definition of broad interest also includes the reporters and media. After all, that is also a reasonable measure of whether a story has traction - by the way, for the moment, this one surely does have traction.

HailToMichigan;1068668; said:
So my point remains. Only in Buckeye country do they care this much about Rich Rodriguez, and only in Buckeye country is he so reviled. (And West Virginia, but you get my drift.)
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I do disagree that it is only in Buckeye country (and your parenthetically included WVa) that people care this much about Rich Rodriguez and what he does. For, in truth you can travel other boards than those and see plenty of posts by TSUN fans both pre-emptively and reactively defending Dick Wadriguez against the stories that are coming forth.

I am absolutely certain that the same is true on the TSUN boards.

That tells me one thing - surprise, surprise, Michigan fans care very much about the reputation of their newly annointed head coach. They are in the position of having to defend his very action, inaction, or trying to spin the stories coming out about him - and they are doing so on other fans forums (not just Buckeyes).

What is most surprising in all this, to me, is that the current round of Wolverines defending for Dick almost entirely ignores the one consensus opinion expounded by the body politic that is BP. That opinion is that taking the initial report as writ, WVU's AD looks remarkably incompetent.

True, that doesn't mean we are buying that DW didn't rip files, a premise all the TSUN faithful almost have to buy at discounted rates before they begin defeding the Dick. But, does that really matter? What in this, besides trying to get us to buy that RR did no wrong, is there for you to defend?

All in all the current episode is highly comical to most of us. Of course, I do understand why you would not see things in that humorous light.

To be completely clear, if they do find evidence showing Dick Wadriguez did shred the night away in Morgantown, then it becomes no laughing matter at all. As I have asserted before, I don't think they will find such evidence.
 
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NastyDogg72;1068688; said:
HTM, if you tead my previous post on this thread I think you will know that I don't believe alot of the rumor and innuendo flying around right now. There are two sides to every story and WVU are not just an innocent bystander in all of this. As I posted on another forum:

So please take this the appropriate way, Please put yourself in the other side of this scenario.

At the end of the 2010 season TSUN finishes as the Big 10 Co-Champion and based upon the head to head tiebreaker earns a trip to the Rose Bowl. Mack Brown has chosen to retire as the Texas HC and they are aggresively looking for his successor. They attempt to lure away Alum Major Applewhite. When he chooses to stay put in his current position they tur their attention to Butch Jones a highly sought after up and coming young coach. When he turns them down they set up a meeting with another candidate. At this same time your coach takes an unplanned trip to Kansas City. When asked if he has any interest in the opening at Texas he says he is now a "Michigan Man" and thats where he intends to stay even though he courted USC last year after Pete Carroll left to take over the Oakland Raiders. Then the next day it comes out across the internet that your coach has accepted the job at Texas. The situation get's messier when it comes to light that the source of this information happens to be the best high school player in the nation who he apparently called before telling his own team. That player now has Texas on his list and you are off. Then a bad situation gets worse when he will not coach you in the Rose Bowl and the downward sprial continues when in his introductory press conference in Austin he proclaims that he intends to fight the 5 million dollar buyout in his contract because your University didn't live up to your end of the agreement in his opinion. Now most recently upon returning from an emotional victory in the Rose Bowl and a well deserved break you come to find that many if not all of the records he produced while coach are missing. I know it seems far fetched, but how would it make you feel?

And the visits you speak of him having with TSUN players and talking about having an interest in their life. Don't you think he had those same discussions and in home visits with the players from WVU?

There are two sides to each story and this one i'm sure is far from over.
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I definitely hold no illusions about the depth of RR's loyalty to Michigan. I like to think Michigan is one of those jobs around the country where there is no step up except to the pros, Texas being a lateral step. But, sure, he might jump for more money somewhere. I'm too jaded to ever believe any coach when they say they're a "School X Guy For Life," unless they were, say, Lloyd Carr or Joe Paterno where they really have spent all their life there. Rich Rodriguez is a bit of a mercenary hire. If he really does a bang-up job, does great things for Michigan like he did for West Virginia, and leaves for more money or because he hates the AD (both of which seem to be part of the reason he left WVU) then I'm far more inclined to get pissy at the school than the coach.
 
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Oh8ch;1068636; said:
As a manager you are paid to do a job and keeping records is commonly part of that job. Conditioning records are not mandated by law or something the U as a whole cares about. But if you are creating being paid to do a job and as part of that job you create those records it is a stretch to call them personal data.
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As a state employee, I can unequivocally state that any records I create in the course of my job are not "personal data." All work product is subject to retention records and possible public records request... including sticky notes! If you are the creator of a record, then it is your responsibility to retain the record no matter how many copies have been made. If he destroyed records outside of the retention schedule, then he violated state law.

Personally, I think the story is in those phone calls to UM recruits before his official resignation. Unethical at best, violations at worst. Either case is not good.
 
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HailToMichigan said:
I'm too jaded to ever believe any coach when they say they're a "School X Guy For Life," unless they were, say, Lloyd Carr, Joe Paterno, OR JIM TRESSEL where they really have spent all their life there. Rich Rodriguez is a bit of a mercenary hire. If he really does a bang-up job, does great things for Michigan like he did for West Virginia, and leaves for more money or because he hates the AD (both of which seem to be part of the reason he left WVU) then I'm far more inclined to get pissy at the school than the coach.
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Fixed! :p
 
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FuckMICHIGAN.jpg

I thought this was Michigan's worst hire.
 
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HailToMichigan said:
Clarification: I don't mean news outlets. They're just reporting. Opinion columnists - you know, the Dennis Dodds of the world - they have deadlines too. I mean message boards, blogs, etc. - the "voice of the fans" so to speak. They simply do not care.

Quotes from the USC link. Very helpful in proving my point.




From Texas, where they are more critical than at USC (unsurprising) but still the comments are not



Three pages at LSU. Two at Texas. One at USC. All about the shredding thing, nothing even mentioning Pryor or any of the other stuff. Nary a whisper at TexAgs.com. RCMB said nothing until the shredding - and even there, he has defenders:



So my point remains. Only in Buckeye country do they care this much about Rich Rodriguez, and only in Buckeye country is he so reviled. (And West Virginia, but you get my drift.)
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I have a feeling if they had somebody on their boards defending RR to the death (despite the fact that he hasn't really done anything to earn such an honor), they'd have more pages.
 
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HailToMichigan;1068597; said:
Keep in mind - there are only two places where the shitstorm is raging full throttle. Columbus and Morgantown...
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Wow, I've lived in 7 different States; but I've never lived everywhere at once. That's amazing. You must have SEC speed or something to keep track of what people are saying everywhere.

I guess the one place where you don't live, Tallahassee, is the only exception to your rule then. People down here are giggling about it like they didn't have problems of their own.

But are they talking about it as much as they do in Columbus? Of course not. You're our rival, not theirs. But it is the only football related issue occuring entirely north of the Mason-Dixon that has generated calls on their Sports Talk Radio in a long time.


[non sequitor]I haven't said it before, so I guess I should mention it: It seems reasonable to me that SOME of this is a result of WVU administrators feeling embarrassed and acting like it. But to believe that ALL of it comes from WVU malfeasance is obtuse at best[/non sequitor]
 
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After what we went through with JT, MoC, and the piling on by ESPN, I tend to take a very neutral view on developing news stories like this. There is just too much room for manipulation of the media by both sides, and both sides are certainly motivated to do so. I am also sick and tired of the national pastime of college football fans constantly trashing the players and coaches of their rivals. Showing a little respect would do us all some good.

But there are a few observations regarding RichRod I can't get away from:
  • I could never see Bo or Lloyd leveraging their institution the way RichRod did with WVU.
  • He sure did create a lot of animosity when he left; he left a damn big wake behind him.
  • Calling recruits while in the employ of WVU is ethically questionable and I suspect it's a minor violation of sorts, especially since he wasn't yet the HC at Michigan.
  • The whole filegate business smells vindictive or spiteful to me. Why wouldn't he be helping the transitional staff come up to speed on his administrative system/affairs? A class act would want the institution he is leaving, and for which he is presumably fond, to succeed.
  • The $4 million question is clear. WVU didn't renege on its promises, RichRod chose to go to greener pastures. He should have made that decision with the intent of meeting his contractual obligations in one form or another. Whether or not he gets a way with it doesn't make it right.
I don't know whether or not he will succeed at Michigan. With their talent pool and national audience (ability to recruit), I suspect he will. But for better or for worse, he has changed the definition and image of the venerable "Michigan Man"
 
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