QB Troy Smith (2006 Heisman Trophy Winner)

[ysubuck]

If Justin continues to progress and if the running game can get on track, I think we've seen the last of Troy Smith playing. He might be on the team, but I think it would take a series of injuries (Zwick, Boekman, maybe even Robbie Schoenhoft) to get him back on the field.

I could be wrong, but that's my feeling.

 

[AKAK]

If Justin continues to progress and if the running game can get on track, I think we've seen the last of Troy Smith playing. He might be on the team, but I think it would take a series of injuries (Zwick, Boekman, maybe even Robbie Schoenhoft) to get him back on the field.

I could be wrong, but that's my feeling.

He's either on the team or he isn't.... There is no point in keeping here if he's the best QB and he's going to sit.

If Zwick... or whoever is better... fine... but its a good thing Coach Tressel and Mr Gieger are bigger men than some of you who would act rashly or out of spite... I absolutely agree with changning the policy to deal with these situations... but I also believe that Troy should be dealt with according to the policies that were already laid out. Kicking Troy off the team to "set an example" is only going to set the example that don't treat people fairly, are inconsistent in your policies, and don't act according to the standard that you've set for yourself.... and utimately show no discipline in your own actions... I don't think that's the message we want to send as a program, and I'm sure that's not the message Tressel wants to send to the team.

 

[Saw31]

...but its a good thing Coach Tressel and Mr Gieger are bigger men than some of you...

I'm not a man because I disagree with you?? Maybe you should be questioning TS's or Mr. Baker's manhood instead of mine.

To say that tOSU has no flexability in it's own policies is crazy. These situations should be dealt with on an individual basis just like anywhere else where punishment is dealt out. All the factors in determining this punishment should be considered. This did not happen in a vacuum.

 

[AKAK]

I'm not a man because I disagree with you??

It doesn't say that anywhere...

What it does say is that Gieger and Tressel are big enough men to take the heat for the program instead of using Troy as their scape goat and take the easy way out, because they think that's the right thing to do. And they realize that no matter how much we want to call Troy A grown up and 'responsible for his actions' (which I agree with)... Tressel and Geiger and Mrs. Holbrook also realize that the Coach/Player relationship or Student/Teacher relationship is not equal. And that the "mentor" has a greater responsibility than the "protege." If we presume that the University as a whole has a mission to 'better' its students, through academics, athletics, or otherwise, part of the 'greater responsibility' of the mentor has to be to leave open, as much as possible, those avenues that give the University the ability to impact the lives the students. That's the kind of person Jim Tressel is, and the kind of Person I want leading the football team of my Alma Mater.

When asked if the Players understood that they had possibly played in the Greatest game ever played, He responded:

I don't know that they will fully get it until more time passes. They were starting to get it. I can picture some of them out there saying, "we're the national champions, we're the national champions, we did it, we did it." You know, it will be something that will be very, very special the rest of their lives. I hope what they get from it is, you know, what it takes to be a champion: All the people that are important, all of the things that have to be done and all the lessons learned. If they get that, I don't care if they ever get what it means to be a national champion. I hope they get the lessons.

Sound like a guy who's going to walk away from Troy Smith?

Sound like a guy who's going to take away the opportunity from Troy Smith to learn lessons that he's obviously struggled with?

Sound like a guy who's going to take away every opportunity for a young man to succeed?

Even in the Maurice Clarret version of events... from his own mouth... after all the things he did and said, the door was never completely shut on him either.

To say that tOSU has no flexability in it's own policies is crazy. These situations should be dealt with on an individual basis just like anywhere else where punishment is dealt out. All the factors in determining this punishment should be considered. This did not happen in a vacuum.

Once again, I didn't say there was no flexibility... didn't even use the word fexibility... As far as your statement goes.... I agree, and I have no reason to believe that all the factors weren't considered.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

If Justin continues to progress and if the running game can get on track, I think we've seen the last of Troy Smith playing. He might be on the team, but I think it would take a series of injuries (Zwick, Boekman, maybe even Robbie Schoenhoft) to get him back on the field.

I could be wrong, but that's my feeling.

I really don't like this statement, because what you're saying is that if tOSU is going to do ok without Smith, then it's ok to kick him off the team. If, however, he is needed in order for tOSU to win, then he must play. Maybe this isn't how you meant it, but that's sure what it looks like.

I'm not a man because I disagree with you?? Maybe you should be questioning TS's or Mr. Baker's manhood instead of mine.

To say that tOSU has no flexability in it's own policies is crazy. These situations should be dealt with on an individual basis just like anywhere else where punishment is dealt out. All the factors in determining this punishment should be considered. This did not happen in a vacuum.

I don't think that's what AKAK meant, bro. I fully agree with AKAK, however, in that if tOSU changes its policies now, and punishes Troy in a manner which far exceeds the original policy that was in place, the University looks bad. Apparently I am one of the few that does not advocate "making an example" of Troy. If the university wants to come out and say that the next player to be caught breaking NCAA violations will be the example, then that's fine. But you can't punish this player overly-harsh simply because there is a media firestorm surrounding the (hopefully) baseless accusations of a disgruntled former dicklicker in MoC.

My opinion remains the same. It's a greater shame to the University if they break the guidelines set into place simply to better themselves in the public eye...and face it, if Smith is kicked off the team for this, that is exactly what the University would be doing - taking the easy way out and trying to save face. And that is the coward's way out, and is more shameful to me than Smith breaking the rules.

edit: AKAK beat me to the punch. But he can defend himself....

 

[exhawg]

I really don't like this statement, because what you're saying is that if tOSU is going to do ok without Smith, then it's ok to kick him off the team. If, however, he is needed in order for tOSU to win, then he must play. Maybe this isn't how you meant it, but that's sure what it looks like.

To me it sounds like ysu said Troy should be sent to the bottom of the depth chart and forced to work his way up from there. If he is cleared of trouble (I doubt that will happen any time soon) he will have to earn the job in practice. To be the starter again it would probably require that JZ and TB were both playing very poorly or injured. IMO we are going to need Troy on scout team for the Texas game to get the D ready for Young. If in fact Troy is only suspended 1 more game I still doubt that he will see the field against Texas.

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

I absolutely agree with changning the policy to deal with these situations

I agree with this 100% and it needs to be changed.

but I also believe that Troy should be dealt with according to the policies that were already laid out. Kicking Troy off the team to "set an example" is only going to set the example that don't treat people fairly, are inconsistent in your policies, and don't act according to the standard that you've set for yourself.... and utimately show no discipline in your own actions... I don't think that's the message we want to send as a program, and I'm sure that's not the message Tressel wants to send to the team.

I believe the message is that the punishment should fit the crime and that each case will be dealt with on an individual basis, as it has been during coach T's tenure, but just two games for breaking the cardinal rule in college athletics? What message is that sending. Hold these kids responsible for their actions and punish them accordingly. I believe anyone who takes money knowingly, should have their scholarship revoked and expelled from the university....end of story. If you cant punish the booster for giving the money, maybe the harshest pentaly that can be given to a player will maybe, just maybe help these kids to do the right thing and not take money.

 

[Saw31]

What it does say is that Gieger and Tressel are big enough men to take the heat....

Well, that's not what it "said". You took a shot at me and others and I answered it.

...using Troy as their scape goat....

TS is a "scapegoat"? That implies that he isn't the one to blame here. That implies that something else is the problem. That's fine if that's what you believe, but as I read that, I can't begin to see how he would be the "scapegoat" when he was the one walking out of the booster's office with an envolope full of money, knowing full well the ramifications to himself and those around him.

Tressel and Geiger and Mrs. Holbrook also realize that the Coach/Player relationship or Student/Teacher relationship is not equal. And that the "mentor" has a greater responsibility than the "protege."

I have to admit, you lost me here a little. What exactly do you think JT, AG, and KH should take responsiblity for here? To me this statement once again trys to deflect responsibility away from TS to others. We can debate all day long who is the biggest benefactor in these relationships and probably end up right back where we started.

If we presume that the University as a whole has a mission to 'better' its students, through academics, athletics, or otherwise, part of the 'greater responsibility' of the mentor has to be leave open, as much as possible, those avenues that give the University the ability to impact the lives the students.

Not at the expense of others, or the University. A saying comes to mind; "Your rights end where mine begin". Obviously I do not mean "my" rights personally, but of those around TS, particularly all his teammates who haven't done anything wrong.

Sound like a guy who's going to walk away from Troy Smith?

Sound like a guy who's going to take away the opportunity from Troy Smith to learn lessons that he's obviously struggled with?

Sound like a guy who's going to take away every opportunity for a young man to succeed?

Interesting questions that I will answer with a few of my own.

When is enough enough?

When do you preserve the 100 other kids' opportunities that are put in jeopardy because of one person?

When does the institution, having said mission, need to be protected so to continue said mission?

Even in the Maurice Clarret version of events... from his own mouth... after all the things he did and said, the door was never completely shut on him either.

An act of benevolance that was obviously wasted in hindsight. What I feel about this decision has certainly changed since when the decision was taken. I suppose I wouldn't be very objective at this point.

Once again, I didn't say there was no flexibility... didn't even use the word fexibility... As far as your statement goes.... I agree, and I have no reason to believe that all the factors weren't considered.

But that's how it read.

Troy should be dealt with according to the policies that were already laid out.

I may not have understood fully what you meant, but I read this as having very little flexability.

edit: AKAK beat me to the punch. But he can defend himself....

I not trying to make this a battle, but a little confrontation never hurt anyone.

I think we all have the same goals in mind, just some differences in how to get there.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

Saw31 - I'm not quite sure what you're saying, except that you're disagreeing with AKAK. Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm just not sure what that opinion is. It is my opinion, and apparently AKAK's, that if the University steps outside the guidelines which were already in place, simply to "set an example" of Troy Smith, then the University's actions would set a negative precedent, and in fact do further damage, as opposed to helping repair what has already been done.

Further, nobody has said that what TS did wasn't wrong, or that he shouldn't be punished. The basis for the whole argument in defense of Smith is that he should NOT be thrown off the team...not that he shouldn't be punished. Troy made a mistake, and should be punished for it. But the punishment should fit the crime, and both are clearly outlined in the NCAA violations. Going to such an extreme over and above the guidelines as kicking Smith off the team is simply rash overkill, and IMO would do much more harm than good.

 

[Saw31]

I edited your post by mistake instead of replying to it. My most humble apologies.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

It's all good, then. I have 100% faith in Tressel and Geiger, and believe they will do what's right for the University, the team, and finally Smith himself. While I agree with you that this situation is horrible, and reflects even worse on the University, I still say that the guidelines are in place for a reason. Follow them. And that is not to say that Smith shouldn't still be punished further by the coach...but there is no way in hell he deserves to be booted from the team. I do feel that most will agree with that statement over time, once they've had a chance to cool down a little.

You also touched on an extremely salient point - neither you, me, or anyone else (at least that has spoken up) know what Geiger and JT know. Like I said earlier, I have complete faith in them to do the right thing, and if they are already talking reinstatement, then this particular transgression is likely a one-time thing (albeit with massive consequences and fallout), and I will fully support whatever decision they make regarding Troy Smith personally.

 

[Saw31]

I have 100% faith in Tressel and Geiger, and believe they will do what's right for the University, the team, and finally Smith himself.

And I hope it's in that order.

 

[AKAK]

My opinion is that AG immediately talking about reinstatement shines a much worse light on us than would going above and beyond the NCAA guidelines. To me it looks as if we only care about winning. I don't believe that. I agree with AKAK that AG and JT are about more than that. My arguement here is more about perception.

And mine is that those guys don't worry about perception.-

Edit- Not exactly wahte I mean.- Let's say they aren't going to let perception prevent them from doing what they think is right.

And... if all we cared about was winning, no one would ever know a thing about this happening, most likely. (Note the whistle blower didn't go to the Media... I'm sure he could have been convinced that this could be taken car of "in house")

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

My opinion is that a 2 game suspension (if that's what we're looking at) for what others have pointed out is one of the cardinal sins of amatuer athletics is ridiculous...

TS walking around with evelopes full of cash from strangers...

Are JT and AG too emotionally involved with these kids to see the bigger picture? Are they putting the welfare of someone who may not deserve it above those who do?

Even "cardinal sins" have levels of infraction. Is taking $100 on the sly the same as, say, taking $1,000 in a more brazen manner? I don't think so. How many have seen Troy Smith "walking around with envelopes full of cash"? I haven't heard of any, have you? Also, the minute that the head coach of a football team loses emotional attachment to his players, he's done. I think Jim Tressel has proved himself as a head coach over 18 seasons, and Geiger proved himself as AD at two major institutions over 15 years, so if they feel reinstatement is warranted, I'll defer to their judgment, thank you very much.

 

[Saw31]

How many have seen Troy Smith "walking around with envelopes full of cash"? I haven't heard of any, have you?

Booster’s employer tipped off OSU
Springfield man gave QB cash, tried to aid others, lawyer says

Tuesday, December 28, 2004
Jill Riepenhoff
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

A Columbus businessman’s relationship with Buckeye quarterback Troy Smith raised enough eyebrows at his office that the company attorney called Ohio State.

That Dec. 9 phone call eventually led to Smith’s suspension from the team and an investigation involving Robert Q. Baker, a 46-year-old Springfield resident who pays big bucks to watch football games from a 35-yardline luxury suite in Ohio Stadium.

Geoffrey Webster, 56, an attorney for Poly-Care Services, confirmed for The Dispatch yesterday that Baker gave Smith an unspecified amount of cash and tried to arrange jobs for Smith and another player.

"It certainly had a smell to it," said Webster, who represents Poly-Care, a provider of healthcare products with a headquarters on Westbelt Drive, on Columbus’ West Side.

Baker, the former executive director of the Ohio Academy of Nursing Homes, helped found the company.

"I can’t comment on any of it," OSU Athletics Director Andy Geiger said yesterday. "It’s an ongoing investigation."

Baker, who is not an OSU graduate, did not return phone messages left with his wife at their Springfield home.

As part of his responsibilities for Poly-Care, Webster handles employee code-of-conduct investigations. He was given incident reports from two employees who questioned Baker’s relationship with Ohio State football players.

Baker has since left the company for unrelated reasons. But last week, the company bought out his financial interest and fired his personal secretary, Benjamin Dutton, who also is Baker’s nephew, Webster said.

According to the incident reports obtained by The Dispatch, one employee said she overheard a conversation between Baker and Dutton after a man identified only as an "Ohio State player" came into the office one day in the spring and left with an envelope.

Baker called Dutton and asked whether Smith had received the money with assurances that there were no strings attached, the incident report says. Baker responded, "Now I own him," the report says.

Dutton explained to the unidentified employee that Baker had a similar deal with another Buckeye who now plays professional football, the report continues.

The employee, who doesn’t follow college football, thought the incident was odd but not worth reporting until learning weeks later that Baker wanted to hire Ohio State football players.

Another employee, a company officer, said he filed an incident report after Baker approached him about finding jobs for Smith and freshman tailback Antonio Pittman.

"He said, ‘I don’t care what they do; find something,’ " said the officer, who asked not to be named for fear of retribution.

The players, the officer said, never filled out job applications and never showed up for work.

Smith has not commented on his suspension as part of an agreement with OSU. Pittman did not return a phone call yesterday in San Antonio, where he is preparing for Wednesday’s Alamo Bowl game against Oklahoma State.

The company never paid either any money, the officer and Webster said.

Both characterized Baker as an avid football fan who wanted to be as close to the program as possible. He spent thousands of dollars wining and dining friends and clients in the luxury suite at Ohio Stadium, Webster and others said.

The suites themselves cost patrons between $20,000 and $75,000 a year. It’s not known exactly how much Baker paid for his.

In spring 2003, Baker hired Chris Gamble, then an Ohio State junior playing both cornerback and wide receiver, to meet people and sign autographs.

Ohio State looked into the job after a Dayton reporter interviewed Gamble at a nursing home where he was signing autographs. Gamble assured Ohio State officials that he had other job duties as well.

That summer, OSU said it had found that Gamble had not violated any NCAA rules.

The relationship between Baker and Gamble continued and included golf outings at the Springfield Country Club, employees said.

During halftime of last year’s Fiesta Bowl, Gamble called Baker on a cell phone, said a Poly-Care employee who overheard the conversation. {Note to staff - no sideline cell phones permitted!!!}

"He was upset because he had missed a catch," the employee said. "He was looking for some reassurance from Bob."

Attempts to contact Gamble through the Carolina Panthers, for whom he plays pro football, were unsuccessful.

Webster, who is an Ohio State alumnus and a member of the Buckeye Club, said he hopes the university takes away Baker’s suite and football tickets.

The NCAA defers those decisions to individual schools unless there is a major infraction, spokesman Erik Christianson said. Smith’s violation is considered minor, Geiger has said.

"This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth," Webster said. "The university has to do something to get rid of this small group of boosters."

Dispatch reporter Rob Oller contributed to this story .

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This is where I got that. I hope my assumption that this was TS is correct.

Not exactly wahte I mean.- Let's say they aren't going to let perception prevent them from doing what they think is right.

That's fine and as I sort of touched on in the post that Mili so conveniently deleted I am still too angry to make a rational judgement and I admit that.