QB Troy Smith (2006 Heisman Trophy Winner)

[ysubuck]

Vengeance has nothing to do with it my man. I'm talking about sending a message to any other player who might be considering doing something like this. I'm also talking about sending a message to the rest of the country (including recruits) that this is how Ohio State deals with this type of behavior. Ohio State is a national laughing stock right now because of this. No media type can mention anything about Ohio State next season with prefacing it with "depending on how the NCAA investigation comes out."

There wouldn't be an NCAA investigation if Troy Smith had done the right thing. This wasn't a mistake. It was a conscious choice. There is no arguing that.

I'm sure that he's going to be kept on the team and that he's going to play again someday. I'll also be a huge hypocrite and cheer like crazy when he does something great. It's just my opinion that this is a special case and that Ohio State needs to take this as an opportunity to send a strong message to the rest of the country. It's a shame that Troy would be the "sacrificial lamb" in that scenario, but it's his own fault. All he had to say was no.

I don't disagree that Maurice Clarett is the dark cloud over Ohio State right now, but that was starting to clear up. You give that kid enough rope and he'll hang himself. Nobody was taking him seriously anymore until Troy stepped up and verified everything Clarett said.

 

[scarletngray]

I am in the group that would prefer to never see TS play again at tOSU. My main reason is that EVERYTIME he took the field it would give ESPiN the opportunity to spend five minutes to go over the fact that he was suspended because he took money from a booster.

I don't want to spend the next year or two listening to ESPin rehash this every time tOSU plays a game. And believe me, if opportunity is there, they will!!!

We can win with JZ. I want the focus to be on the team, not TS and his infractions. Overtime, the more JZ plays, the less focus will be put on TS and his buddy MoC.The coaches, players, students, school and fans deserve this.

We need to try to put all this behind us, as soon as possible. As long as TS is in the spotlight, especially the starting QB, it will never happen. JMO

 

[AKAK]

I don't want to spend the next year or two listening to ESPin rehash this every time tOSU plays a game. And believe me, if opportunity is there, they will!!!

Too late for that....

Like they can't say... "And Justin Zwick, who got his starting job back after Troy smight was kickid off the team for..."

Yeah.. that sounds a whole lot better.

 

[Steve19]

Apologies to BuckIprof. Someone mentioned that they were teaching journalism and I thought that was you.

YSU, Saw, I respect your opinions and I share your anger. To be honest, I am still almost unable to talk about all this and feel an awful lot like kicking the dog! I am angry at MoC, his hangers on and attorneys. At Troy Smith. At the whole lot of these wankers! I actually wish Clarett was in the pros now, just so I could watch someone take him out at the knees.

But I also realise that anger like this is not good for me. So, yeah, what with five years of anger management classes, I am hoping to put it behind me!

Is it factually correct to say that Smith brought on the NCAA investigation? I thought Andy Geiger had already requested that and it was not complete. Unless I misunderstand, Smith's only influence is to widen it to include his offence.

I have made the point as to why I think it is wrong for the University to boot this kid. But there also is a tactical issue here as well. If we kick him off, we send more than a message to the team or potential recruits. We send a signal that we are over-reacting to the ESPiN microscope and that we are worried about other things being discovered. We feed their propaganda mill that THEY have brought justice to the world and that their SPIN actually was "good investigative journalism".

Witness the negative reaction across the media, not just on ESPiN, to the self-imposed basketball sanction this year. Geiger's resignation hasn't stopped ESPiN, if what I am reading on BP is correct, then the buggers already are after Jim Tressel. These things don't stop the shit, they bring more of it.

I also don't believe in deterents. These kids already heard all of this years ago and still they did it. I saw a professor's letters from the athletics department at OSU very clearly stating the limitations on boosters, ensuring that athletes got "no favors" but frequently checking on class attendance, work ethic and progress. So, I feel pretty sure that many deterents are in place already. If BP posters are right, then there are a small group of bad apples in every big athletics program. My experience in life as a company director is that bad apples are unlikely to be deterred by any penalty because they believe they will never get caught (and I have put a few fraudsters in jail in my time!) They think that they are special and simply deserve the gravy and won't get caught. Witness MoC's attitudes to this day.

So, it is my opinion (and its an opinion that may not be as good as anyone else's) that we win nothing by getting rid of Smith. I can accept why others see it differently and surely understand everyone's anger. Yep, just five years in anger management classes...

 

[martinss01]

Emotionally, I am just where Clarity sits. This kid legitimized Clarett and I want him to simply disappear.

However, universities are where people go to learn. Universities have a mission to teach.

Smith's actions are repugnant and he has hurt something that we dearly care for. Moreover, because of what he did, it's possible that further and deeper investigations by the NCAA may find something else (as they would at any major program under this kind of spotlight) and ESPiN will claim to "right" in their obscene behavior.

Nevertheless, universities have a responsibility to educate and kicking Smith out is to abrogate that responsibility. Actually, it lets him off the hook because he probably would see more playing time elsewhere.

Give him a 4-6 game suspension, put him low in the pecking order and he probably will not see much playing time the remainder of his time at OSU. But he may get a degree and learn a lot about life that can make him a success. That would be one win out of all of this darkness.

ive been saying that since the news broke so your definitely not alone. while i don't see jt kicking him off the team, i do feel he is essentially done here. he'll put on the uniform and will always be a part of the "family". but he will never be at the head of it again. not without significant help from others.

clarity, that was a great post. i don't necissarily agree with kicking him off the team, but i don't have a problem with it either. trust me, i feel the exact same way.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

How do you know the other kids dont take the money???? I can promise you that there are a lot more player recieving benefits then we suspect. Just because they are not getting caught does not mean that it is not going on. It's hard on both sides of this case. As for honor, in the world today it is hard to have honor (as the way you put it). Like i said before what he did was not right but he is nothing more then a dumb kid offered money.

biggs, Please don't ever assume you know anything about what it is to be on a team at Ohio State or any other college when you've never played a down or been in the lockerroom with any of these athletes. You can make all the promises you want but you hold not a shred of knowledge of what it is to be a teammate on any level of sports if you state you'd take the money and then lump all of us other former/present athletes into that category. I rarely comment on this load of crap and usually enjoy reading this site, especially the recruiting boards (it's one of the very best I might add) but when I see totally ignorant and unfounded statements like this it pisses me off!! YES there are and always will be a few unscrupulous athletes and booster out there who RUIN a teams reputation but it is NOT the norm and those athletes that sacrifice their integrity towards his future and especially his trust with his players deserve what they get. After they have been racked over the coals and are picked up from the ashes ... then the team may take him back.

p.s. it's sad with all the positives that Ohio State has brought to us that this overblown pile of crap has become the focus and that there are so many doomsday predictions when in fact we have a very good recruiting class coming in already and a very good future no matter what negatives some might bring to the table. It is and always will be great to be a Buckeye !!!

 

[HineyBuck]

StoRM--way to get after it!

But, actually, I think you said it better in the Smith Booster Identified thread:

"No biggsj6030, some of us can say that they played college football at a major Big Ten school and that even though there always were big time temptations; he NEVER EVER did something as selfish as taking money from boosters. There are countless meetings and coaches telling scholar athletes of these temptations and of the bad results. More importantly all players know that it will mean letting their teammates down and that's a cardinal sin amongst players. In the locker rooms they will sometimes be shut out by some players(at least for awhile) and deservingly so. No biggs, I respect your opinion but not all scholar athletes are as shallow and self serving as to take money and let their teammates(and the fans) down. It's been going on for many many years and in every locker room but teammates and especially coaches cannot always tell who's "on the take". Yes all kids make stupid stupid mistakes and Troy shouldn't be totally vilified but he does deserve any and all knocks he gets because most of all he let his teammates down and secondly even though he is still young ... he should of known better. Youth is not an excuse to be washed over to justify all matters, especially this subject. This is something that goes beyond that and is a major major sin for a teammate/player. He let his fans and school down but most of all he let his teammates, who depended on him, down and thats unnacceptable.

"As for that booster ... lowest form of scum there is out there. They do nothing good for the name and reputation of Ohio State. They know nothing of what it really means to be a part of the Buckeye family."

All I can add is "Amen."

:osu:

 

[FKAGobucks877]

Vengeance has nothing to do with it my man. I'm talking about sending a message to any other player who might be considering doing something like this. I'm also talking about sending a message to the rest of the country (including recruits) that this is how Ohio State deals with this type of behavior. Ohio State is a national laughing stock right now because of this. No media type can mention anything about Ohio State next season with prefacing it with "depending on how the NCAA investigation comes out."

What message? I get what you're trying to say, but my problem with this is I think it sends the wrong message. If this course of action were followed, as you recommend, I think the message recruits would get is that if an individual player has to be a sacrificial lamb, for the good of the university, then so be it. The Ohio State University I attended and respect and admire will not do this, simply because it is "the best thing". My University will always do the right thing, regardless of public opinion. And the right thing is to follow the guidelines already set in place, and not kill Troy Smith's career and college education because he violated a rule that should have warranted only a 1-2 game suspension.

There wouldn't be an NCAA investigation if Troy Smith had done the right thing. This wasn't a mistake. It was a conscious choice. There is no arguing that.

Untrue. The investigation was already ongoing. This violation didn't start it. In fact, the violation occurred before tOSU had even played one game this year. Again, the timing of this smells very funny to me...but yeah, it was a conscious choice. And he should be punished for making the wrong one...appropriately.

Let me make an analogy here, and hopefully this will be made more clear to you. Let's say you get in a fight at college. Over the next year or so, many fights break out, and it becomes an "epidemic" at your college. Many people are arrested and charged with assault, and forced to pay a fine. Then, after all the fighting seemed to be getting better, someone comes forward and says, "Wait, I saw ysubuck fighting last year." So, the courts go overboard. You get charged, and convicted, of attempted murder, and have to serve 20 years in prison. All because an example needed to be made. Instead of following the established procedures and laws, they circumvented them to make a point. Sound fair to you?

 

[gost8]

Let me make an analogy here, and hopefully this will be made more clear to you. Let's say you get in a fight at college. Over the next year or so, many fights break out, and it becomes an "epidemic" at your college. Many people are arrested and charged with assault, and forced to pay a fine. Then, after all the fighting seemed to be getting better, someone comes forward and says, "Wait, I saw ysubuck fighting last year." So, the courts go overboard. You get charged, and convicted, of attempted murder, and have to serve 20 years in prison. All because an example needed to be made. Instead of following the established procedures and laws, they circumvented them to make a point. Sound fair to you?

Very good point... I think all that is in order is this... Tress needs to round up all his players and say something like, Guys we are gonna go with whatever punishment the NCAA hands out to Troy for his infraction and whatever punishment we get as a whole for the MOC situation, but as of today any further infractions of taking cash from boosters or any other major infraction that we go over again and again with you guys. YOU ARE DONE !!! No suspension, no slap on the wrist. You are gone. No arguments or exceptions. You will not play another down at this University, period. And then, most importantly, if there is another violation follow through with it. These guys need to learn tOSU does not NEED them. (I think a lot of the "star" players think this, and therefore feel they can do what they want and the university will cover it up.) Of course this is all just my opinion and you can disagree, but I think that this approach could and would start the healing process.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

Interesting analogy FKA and I am not disputing any of what you said but what's your solutions to the present state of boosters and athletes relations and of curing the violations that are warranting so much attention these days?? Clearly the present penalties are not deterring a few individuals. So what do you or anybody think is the best answer??

In this incident the kid not only hurt himself but he hurt his teammates, freinds and family . He brought them down too with his selfish act and in that light there can be little sympathies as to what his judge and jury holds down as penalties for him now. Now he needs to take whatever concequences are given and try to realize that it was not a free ride and one can't just take take take. There are other players involved who depend on him and trust him and if he betrayed that then the penalties should be very harsh. Troy being made an "example" may or may not be the answer but it won't be going overboard at this particular time.
Yes I do also in my heart beleive you are correct that we should consider this kid as a family member of the Buckeyes and pick him up after he fell so low and made such a huge error in judgement but he did more than just hurt himself in this case and now he has to live with whatever the results are overboard or not ... sometimes enough is enough.

Go Bucks and keep the faith !!!

 

[Saw31]

I had to go back and read what I wrote earlier in this thread because I've written, deleted, written again, rewritten, deleted, etc. This is so frustrating.
I just want to let everyone know that I have a lot of respect for your opinions even if I come off as a smartass sometimes. You haven't changed my mind, but I, in no way, discount what you have said. I have no delusions that my opinion is somehow more important than anyone else's. I do however believe that my opinion has merit.

All that being said: I don't agree with what some have said about "timing". Some have claimed that this happened way before the recent round of articles and that would be correct. But, isn't there always a but, this happened after the original problems with MoC. He saw firsthand what happened, and being friends with MoC I assume they spoke about things that happened. Therefore I find it difficult to believe this was just a random act of stupidity on the part of TS.

 

[ysubuck]

FKA,
The investigation was being welcomed and encouraged by AG and the NCAA (from my understanding) was satisfied with how things were being handled. Now the NCAA is coming in and "turning over stones that were, before, left unturned." (Can't remember where I read this, but I think it was on this site).

I completely understand where you are coming from, and it is just my opinion that he should be off the team. He should be off the team, much like Maurice Clarett was off the team. Hopefully this is an isolated incident and Troy is the only guy that has taken money. But I maintain that the damage he has done to this program is going to take years to mend, no matter what the NCAA finds. It shouldn't matter what the rest of the nation thinks, but the reality is that it does matter. It matters in recruiting, the life blood of any program. This incident is not just about Troy and Troy taking money. If it was simply a matter of "Troy took money so Troy needs to be punished" then that would be different. That's not the case. Troy took money and caused a backlash on the university and his team mates. Not that I think it was ever an issue, but technically Troy could have cost Boekman his red shirt. I just feel that this goes way beyond "Troy screwed up."

I guess my argument should be that the NCAA needs to hand down stiffer penalties for these types of infractions. The coach and the university cannot be blamed for following the guidelines. I just feel that based on what the penalty is, players can continue to take money from boosters and just suffer a 1-2 game suspension if they get caught. How is this going to modify the behavior? Suppose the 3rd string guard takes a $1000 off of a booster. He gets a 1-2 game suspension, but he wasn't playing anyway. The university and the football program, however, get investigated and get blasted by every media outlet in the United States. Is that fair?

 

[FKAGobucks877]

No, it isn't fair, and neither is life. If the NCAA penalties were harsher, then TS should be punished in whatever way the NCAA says. I have absolutely no problem if JT comes out and says that TS will be benched, or 4th string, or whatever else. I guess my whole point is that I have complete faith in Tressel to take the appropriate actions. And again, I am in no way trying to make excuses for what TS did...but IMO, he does not deserve to be thrown off the team.

Storm - I'm sorry, I really have a hard time following your post. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I really just can't quite follow it. I think you need more periods. Seriously, I don't have the answers. Luckily, it's not my job to have them either. I don't know that the coaches or administration can realistically do any more than they have. It's quite possible that in the long run, this whole TS fiasco will work better at deterring the athletes from this type of behavior than anything Tressel or Geiger could have done (or can still do). With the tremendous amount of negative publicity, on top of Smith's punishment (whatever that may be), hopefully everyone's eyes are wide open to this crap, and it puts a stop to it. If it's even going on. For all we know, the TS incident was an isolated one...but I think we all agree this stuff goes on everywhere.

 

[AKAK]

I guess my argument should be that the NCAA needs to hand down stiffer penalties for these types of infractions. The coach and the university cannot be blamed for following the guidelines. I just feel that based on what the penalty is, players can continue to take money from boosters and just suffer a 1-2 game suspension if they get caught. How is this going to modify the behavior? Suppose the 3rd string guard takes a $1000 off of a booster. He gets a 1-2 game suspension, but he wasn't playing anyway. The university and the football program, however, get investigated and get blasted by every media outlet in the United States. Is that fair?

Okay-- If that's your argument going forward... I doubt anyone has a problem with that... but there is an inherent danger in the case of Troy smith in not following precedent... the precedents being similar violations and the explanation of what the penalties would be to during compliance meetings... and the danger is that arbitrary action could have as bad an impact on the university image and recruiting as no action.

Kicking the kid off the team is still passing the buck, and the cowards move, IMO.

 

[FKAGobucks877]

Okay-- If that's your argument going forward... I doubt anyone has a problem with that... but there is an inherent danger in the case of Troy smith in not following precedent... the precedents being similar violations and the explanation of what the penalties would be to during compliance meetings... and the danger is that arbitrary action could have as bad an impact on the university image and recruiting as no action.

Kicking the kid off the team is still passing the buck, and the cowards move, IMO.

AKAK is much more eloquent than me. I agree, 100%.