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QB Troy Smith (2006 Heisman Trophy Winner)

BuckeyeFROMscUM said:
Your cries for him to be removed from the team are from a selfish desire for the NCAA to not be punished. Smith has been made an example of, considering he may not be involved with team activity until the week before the Texas game, possibly removing him from the starting lineup forever and perhaps a shot at the NFL.

My motives are transparent but TS's are not??

I didn't post because of the NCAA and possible sanctions. I'm worried about the fine, upstanding people and our great University, who have had their reputations tarnished because of this "kid" and MoC. The fact that he is just out of high school makes it worse, not better. The people they have hurt have worked a lifetime for what they have. TS and MoC haven't done a thing in life to warrant any kind of consideration in comparison.

"Just to put it in context."
 
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stxbuck said:
Guess what -hundreds of other young men-many from the same economic situation or worse than Troy Smith-are in the same position-and they don't take the cash. I think it is pretty arrogant to assume that this goes on at every college and use that as justification. Does it happen at other schools-yes, I'm sure it does. However, the "everyone else is doing it/ you haven't caught the others" defense is pathetic. I tell the students in my classes that honor is doing the right thing when no one is looking. Apparently you and Troy Smith don't share that thought.
How do you know the other kids dont take the money???? I can promise you that there are a lot more player recieving benefits then we suspect. Just because they are not getting caught does not mean that it is not going on. It's hard on both sides of this case. As for honor, in the world today it is hard to have honor (as the way you put it). Like i said before what he did was not right but he is nothing more then a dumb kid offered money.
 
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When and how the incident happened should be considered into his penalty from the program. Who is going to draw a harsher sentence, someone who runs their own car into a telephone pole while drunk, or someone who runs into another car killing a young pregnant mother while drunk?

It's the same act, the same negligence, just with two different results. And no, I'm not comparing him taking money to drinking and driving. I am merely illustrating that in order for justice to be served, sometimes you have to reach past the act itself, and consider the consequences of their actions as well. A guy robbing a store shoots his gun into the ceiling to scare people into submission. No one is hurt. In a different reality, the same guy shoots his gun into the air, not realizing there is an apartment overhead, and kills a teen who was watching tv. Same crime, different consequences.

What Troy did, in of itself, isn't the end of the world. Taking money is a pretty serious mistake, but it's one that would normally just reflect on himself.

However, because of the timing of MoC's (his friend) accusations, it's damning for the school. Troy has in effect cost us at least one recruit, forced Geiger into retirement, put the very program itself under an ever harsher spotlight, and who knows what else. He showed a blatant disregard for the team, his coaches, and the institution.

You know, I've convinced myself here. I started typing this thinking I'm fine with a 2 game suspension, but I realize I'm not. Someone has to be made into an example. If Troy is that example, then he's put himself in that position. I can honestly say that, right now, I'd like to see Troy off the team. Bear in mind I basically never say that. I didn't say it about Izzy, Chattams, Arden or even MoC (at first). On the contrary, I usually argue against it because I feel strongly that these student-athletes should be learning, and they'll learn more having to work through the consequences of their own actions, than they will just getting booted out and end up playing with a new team. However, and I allow that I could be too swayed by the damage he's done, right now I don't want him back at all. Maybe that will change. I'm lucky in the sense that I'm realistic about how little my opinion matters. I still have absolute confidence in Geiger and Tressel. That will allow me to be comfortable with whatever they do with Troy, because I believe in their sense of justice, and ability to consider all the facts. So two games or a boot, I'm on board with the program, as insignificant my 'sponsorship' of their decision means.

It's all a lose-lose proposition. Kick Troy, bring him back, whatever. Nobody wins. We've already lost, he's already lost, the program certainly has.

I fear that we haven't seen the worst of any of this yet. And that's just a miserable thought.


--edit--
"Other kids are doing it/Other teams" is a reality, but not an excuse. People drive drunk all the time without killing themselves or others. That doesn't make it okay for you to get in a car and do it yourself. It's tantamount to saying that your convenience carries the weight of greater importance than the lives of other people out on the road. Troy fucked up, there is NO excuse that can defend his actions. I don't think it makes him a bad kid. If he never plays another down for tOSU, I will always associate him at least in part with his stunning performance against the Weasels. Unfortunately, I will also remember him for being the proverbial straw that broke the program's back.
 
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biggsj6030 said:
How do you know the other kids dont take the money???? I can promise you that there are a lot more player recieving benefits then we suspect.

I always love this type of arguement. Question someone else's knowledge while claiming knowledge that you could not possibly have. Brilliant.


biggsj6030 said:
As for honor, in the world today it is hard to have honor (as the way you put it).

And that would make you part of the problem.
 
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I think the punishment fits the crime. The two game suspension is nothing...really, it is nothing compared to what he has done to his future.

He is now the last rung on the ladder. And I think JT is going to grease the first few rungs on Troy's way back up. Barring injury or terrible play/practice by JZ or TB or any freshmen I think we might not see much of him next year. If that's the case then he could very well struggle for the remainder of his career at tOSU. Oh...and I doubt we will hear any crying over playing time again.
 
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UGABuck said:
He is now the last rung on the ladder. And I think JT is going to grease the first few rungs on Troy's way back up. Barring injury or terrible play/practice by JZ or TB or any freshmen I think we might not see much of him next year. If that's the case then he could very well struggle for the remainder of his career at tOSU. Oh...and I doubt we will hear any crying over playing time again.

I wondered the same thing and mentioned it another thread. Glad to know I am not completely crazy or at least am not the only one thinking this way.

The more I think about it the more upset I get not only what he did to the school and program, but also how we abused the trust that JT had in him. Unfortunately, now because of his actions JT may have to change how he approaches his players. The trust he has shown his players has been abused by a small minority, but their actions may have consequences on how he treats the rest of the players.
 
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Emotionally, I am just where Clarity sits. This kid legitimized Clarett and I want him to simply disappear.

However, universities are where people go to learn. Universities have a mission to teach.

Smith's actions are repugnant and he has hurt something that we dearly care for. Moreover, because of what he did, it's possible that further and deeper investigations by the NCAA may find something else (as they would at any major program under this kind of spotlight) and ESPiN will claim to "right" in their obscene behavior.

Nevertheless, universities have a responsibility to educate and kicking Smith out is to abrogate that responsibility. Actually, it lets him off the hook because he probably would see more playing time elsewhere.

Give him a 4-6 game suspension, put him low in the pecking order and he probably will not see much playing time the remainder of his time at OSU. But he may get a degree and learn a lot about life that can make him a success. That would be one win out of all of this darkness.
 
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In regards to "mission to teach", that's where I want to be, know I should be, and suspect where I'll end up. It's just all too fresh right now. Couple that with the suspicion that it's all going to still get worse for us, and it's hard to be balanced on anything related to Troy Smith right now.

But even feeling that way, I can appreciate your last paragraph as something that sounds totally appropriate. A real suspension, and bottom of the food chain. If he learns from this, then he'll be better for it.



Steve19 said:
Emotionally, I am just where Clarity sits. This kid legitimized Clarett and I want him to simply disappear.

However, universities are where people go to learn. Universities have a mission to teach.

Smith's actions are repugnant and he has hurt something that we dearly care for. Moreover, because of what he did, it's possible that further and deeper investigations by the NCAA may find something else (as they would at any major program under this kind of spotlight) and ESPiN will claim to "right" in their obscene behavior.

Nevertheless, universities have a responsibility to educate and kicking Smith out is to abrogate that responsibility. Actually, it lets him off the hook because he probably would see more playing time elsewhere.

Give him a 4-6 game suspension, put him low in the pecking order and he probably will not see much playing time the remainder of his time at OSU. But he may get a degree and learn a lot about life that can make him a success. That would be one win out of all of this darkness.
 
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Steve19 said:
Give him a 4-6 game suspension, put him low in the pecking order and he probably will not see much playing time the remainder of his time at OSU. But he may get a degree and learn a lot about life that can make him a success. That would be one win out of all of this darkness.
He's already proven he's the kind of guy that would leave under these circumstances and play elsewhere. I believe he would become ESPNs darling and an example of an overzealous program who picked some young kid to be it's scapegoat (ala Clarett) and he'd go play in the SEC.

We cannot win the perception battle on this one.
 
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BuckeyeInTheBoro said:
We cannot win the perception battle on this one.

There's the bottom line. There is no winning. No coming out of this clean. ESPiN (what's the 'i' all about, anyway) is going to keep on wailing on us, the fans of other programs are going to take as much delight in our suffering as "we" collectively do in theirs when the roles are reversed.

The tragic thing here is that we could well be as clean and well-intentioned a program as we've believed all along, but it doesn't matter. We might be approaching the point where we have to face penalities, just so the NCAA can save face. Hell, maybe we're guilty and we deserve them. I doubt very many people know for sure either way.

Pure suspicion, Hubs. No more. I just think the media is doing its best to dictate how this story is going to end. That's their thing these days, create the news, not just report it. Look at the BCS. They want to decide who plays in the game. Reporters have all forgotten that they're to report. It's all about opinion, personal perspective, and rhetoric now. Sensationalism over substance. Get people outraged over balanced objectivity. It all makes me sick.

The joke used to be "What's 100 lawyers down at the bottom of the ocean? A good start." Forget lawyers, used car salesmen, spammers, telemarketers and pyramid schemers -- the media are (IMO) the lowest rung on the evolutionary ladder. 100 members of the media down at the bottom of the ocean makes for a better joke, and a better start.
 
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The sad thing is that Tressel's name will never be clean. He could have done absolutely nothing in all of this but try and keep kids in line taht didn't want to, and he'll still be considered dirty no matter how he does the rest of the time he is the coach.

I don't think Smith should be spared or pitied. I also don't think he should be crucified.

The fact of the matter is that this is a mess that can't be resolved.

I really wish tOSU was actually guilty of something so that there would be some sense of feeling like this made sense at all. Maybe if Ginn or Holmes were the recepient of this money. But no, it was the backup QB who hadn't done anything at all.

And until another program becomes the more corrupt school, we will have to endure the jeers of the nation.

The media has always been at teh bottom of the totem pole. Jim Gray solidified that viewpoint of mine when I was just a small child watching the olympics and he'd ask them: "you just trained your entire life for this race and then tripped and fell. How do you feel?" Guess where he works now? ESPN (if I'm not mistaken).
 
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I remember a moment when I thought Karl Malone was going to literally kill Gray right on camera (I think it was him, he was posing basically the same question to Malone just a few seconds after the Bulls won the title). Now that would have been news worth tuning in for.


BuckeyeFROMscUM said:
The sad thing is that Tressel's name will never be clean. He could have done absolutely nothing in all of this but try and keep kids in line taht didn't want to, and he'll still be considered dirty no matter how he does the rest of the time he is the coach.

I don't think Smith should be spared or pitied. I also don't think he should be crucified.

The fact of the matter is that this is a mess that can't be resolved.

I really wish tOSU was actually guilty of something so that there would be some sense of feeling like this made sense at all. Maybe if Ginn or Holmes were the recepient of this money. But no, it was the backup QB who hadn't done anything at all.

And until another program becomes the more corrupt school, we will have to endure the jeers of the nation.

The media has always been at teh bottom of the totem pole. Jim Gray solidified that viewpoint of mine when I was just a small child watching the olympics and he'd ask them: "you just trained your entire life for this race and then tripped and fell. How do you feel?" Guess where he works now? ESPN (if I'm not mistaken).
 
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