QB Todd Boeckman (official thread)

[schwab]

That was a fun read Dryden. As if getting 25 verbals by now was going to help the cause, we come to find out that all most fans do now is find problems with the actual team on the field, rather than who is going to take their spot.

No wonder Texas fails, and fails, and fails...

 

[Oh8ch]

Nice post Dryden. And isn't it remarkable that when you are returning a QB who won the Big Ten, took an overachieving team to the NC, and was voted first team Big Ten QB that we should have a QB controversially in 2008?

I have been defending TB as much as anyone, but I agree he has his issues. The question is what standard you are using for comparison. If your standard is perfection he falls well short. If your standard is a Heisman winner he falls well short.

But as mentioned above if you look around the country at some pretty strong programs you can see some pretty shabby QB play. If you look at OSU over the past ten yeas there has been some marginal play. And Boeckman is NOT a marginal QB.

If you are just critiquing then all comments are fair game. But if you are discussing who should start the standard becomes the other options available. I don't think anyone is arguing Bauserman is ahead of him, so it boils down to Pryor.

Pryor is ahead of where I thought he would be this early. He is also athletic enough that at some point what he can do running the ball trumps a lot of other weaknesses. But the last thing we need against USC is the second coming of Art Schlichter (with all his talent) throwing four picks. Nor do we need a Vince Young who in his first year playing for Texas threw 6 TDs and 7 picks.

We have no clue how well Pryor can read a D or run this offense, but it is pretty fair to suggest he can't do so as well as someone who has a year in the program for every week Pryor has.

 

[Jaxbuck]

That was a fun read Dryden. As if getting 25 verbals by now was going to help the cause, we come to find out that all most fans do now is find problems with the actual team on the field, rather than who is going to take their spot.

No wonder Texas fails, and fails, and fails...

I just do not get this moral indignation over people pointing out the weak spots in a players game. I haven't ever seen anyone say they don't like TB, think he's a bad QB or aren't happy he's a Buckeye.

What I have seen is people point out his weak spots. TB gets happy feet and threw too many INT's last year. I remember when the question mark with Beanie was his fumbling. Well, once he went out and put that one to bed for a consistent period of time, no one brings it up anymore.

If Todd Boeckman has a PSU kind of night against USC a lot of the doubt will be eased. Untill then a lot of people still see the same issues, are concerned about it and don't think YSU was a very good barometer to judge him vastly improved by. TB did indeed play terrible in our last 3 games of '07. He showed flashes of more of the same in the spring game and again against YSU. I personally am not saying he sucks, bench him or anything other than I'm still concerned about how he will perform against the better teams.

Again, I just don't see what is so hard about this or why some feel the need to make snide remarks about anyone and everyone who may have the audacity to point out the blemishes.

 

[Oh8ch]

Again, I just don't see what is so hard about this or why some feel the need to make snide remarks about anyone and everyone who may have the audacity to point out the blemishes.

The problem is that there are a mix of people some of whom are saying Boeckman has flaws and others saying Pryor ought to be getting more reps or even starting.

There are also many of us who believe that the number of posts pointing out blemishes are a bit excessive for a kid who has contributed so much. (Although perhaps my own sense of that comes more from conversations outside of this board where it gets really silly than I am justified from reading here.)

 

[schwab]

I'm certainly not trying to imply that pointing out weaknesses in TB is bashing. Jax, I wasn't pointing out you, or anyone else. I just think that sometimes fans don't appreciate what they have, and that includes me. I am from NW Ohio, so at some point along the scale, I guess you could say I have a Boeckman bias or something, but I don't. I am going face value here, as are you, and we just see different things. If starting Pryor would help us beat USC, then as a Buckeye die-hard like we both are, I would pull for it all the way. But I think TP is a change of pace guy this year, as opposed to starting, and I know others feel different. I am no one to tell you what you can't say about TB. When I responded to Dryden's post, it was a reference to 12 years worth of QB's in Columbus, and the 'replacement' comment was made in reference to the ovation Pryor was extended when he came in the game Saturday. I just think we have a helluva QB and some of us are pushing him out the door.

 

[Jaxbuck]

The problem is that there are a mix of people some of whom are saying Boeckman has flaws and others saying Pryor ought to be getting more reps or even starting.

There are also many of us who believe that the number of posts pointing out blemishes are a bit excessive for a kid who has contributed so much. (Although perhaps my own sense of that comes more from conversations outside of this board where it gets really silly than I am justified from reading here.)

I think the volume of the blemish posts is probably due to this team being so stacked and free of questions in so many other areas. Also the BTN replaying the Illinois game 596 times hasn't helped. Everytime you look up you see TB have one of the worst days a QB can have.

Everyone has known for about 9 months now that the areas of concern were TB improving, the interior DL improving and a 3rd WR stepping up. Tough to go over that little bit for this long and not dwell on any one of them too much I guess.

 

[schwab]

Although perhaps my own sense of that comes more from conversations outside of this board where it gets really silly than I am justified from reading here.

I am guilty of that myself.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I'm certainly not trying to imply that pointing out weaknesses in TB is bashing. Jax, I wasn't pointing out you, or anyone else. I just think that sometimes fans don't appreciate what they have, and that includes me. I am from NW Ohio, so at some point along the scale, I guess you could say I have a Boeckman bias or something, but I don't. I am going face value here, as are you, and we just see different things. If starting Pryor would help us beat USC, then as a Buckeye die-hard like we both are, I would pull for it all the way. But I think TP is a change of pace guy this year, as opposed to starting, and I know others feel different. I am no one to tell you what you can't say about TB. When I responded to Dryden's post, it was a reference to 12 years worth of QB's in Columbus, and the 'replacement' comment was made in reference to the ovation Pryor was extended when he came in the game Saturday. I just think we have a helluva QB and some of us are pushing him out the door.

I didn't take it personally or anything and I wasn't directing my post right at you even though I quoted you. I just wanted to make a point about that general message I have been seeing quite a bit lately.

I agree that some are too ready to push TB out the door for Pryor but lets be realistic, Todd has had to be the guy bewteen arguably the best QB in OSU history and the guy most think will be better. After seeing what Bellisari went through, I think OSU fans are behaving pretty well overall.

The real test will come if TB has a bad game vs USC and we lose. I think most people are content to have TB as the starter for a run at the NC but if that chance dies in LA then the calls for Pryor to start are going to get loud(er). I'm not condoning it and don't even really want to talk about it but if things go bad out there it will happen.

BTW-I am from a little town in Ohio about an hour south of St Henry. I have a soft spot in my heart for TB, believe me.

 

[HorticullyBuck]

from my standpoint i have yet to meet a student that has really liked TB a lot, we respect him but we dont think hes anything special. thats what i've herd and seen a lot of; i feel the same way; hes good, but i disagree he was the best bigten quarterback, hes just on the best big ten team. i would put 20 or so college QB's ahead of TB. everyone has different views of course, think it has somthing to do with the new age of spread offense? and younger people wanting that spread ability with TP??

**I do not think TP should start over TB for the last time**

 

[schwab]

from my standpoint i have yet to meet a student that has really liked TB a lot

Hint..this guy is hanging out with the fellas, exclusively...

we respect him but we dont think hes anything special.

He took your Buckeyes to the national title game, oh, I dunno, around 8 months ago...how soon we forget... there are 117 teams that cannot say that....

thats what i've herd and seen a lot of

Do you hang out in a frathouse? Filled with dudes who 'should be playing' for the Buckeyes? Sounds very much so...

i feel the same way; hes good, but i disagree he was the best bigten quarterback, hes just on the best big ten team.

Let me guess, Juice Williams or the kid from Indiana fits in here...

i would put 20 or so college QB's ahead of TB.

your suggestion, i've got the time if you do

everyone has different views of course, think it has somthing to do with the new age of spread offense? and younger people wanting that spread ability with TP??

Just think, you could be a Michigan fan right now, rooting for that very thing... how far does that get them?

**I do not think TP should start over TB for the last time**

Very well then. Class dismissed. :tongue2:

 

[Magua]

I have no problem with pointing out a players weaknesses or blemishes...but lets cut the guy SOME slack. Instead of laying into him(not saying many of you are, but some have in the past) perhaps look at the positives he brings to the table.

I just think we sometimes go a little overboard with the constant rehashing of the same drivel over and over and over...and some people just flat out blast a kid for throwing a pick, after he just threw 3 td's.

Troy Smith spoiled us, thats the bottom line. Some of you forget the days we had before it(Thanks Dryden for remind us tho lol).

 

[osugrad21]

Jax, you have always been extremely respectful in your critiques. However, that is not always the case with some folks...when the constant harping adds up, it changes the climate of this site and that is not something we want or will allow. Critique and dissection has always been allowed...but there is a line and some people do not see that line as well as you do.

 

[generaladm]

I went back and reread all the posts following the YSU game to gain perspective of this discussion of whether TB is the QB to lead us to glory, and the difference between pointing out weaknesses and bashing. I think I've found the solution that will solve all of our problems. Everyone add Cajunbuck to your ignore list. Sure, we could just wait until he gets banned again, but can we really take the chance that he could completely derail a perfectly good thread before that happens? Cajunbuck just doesn't have "it", that ability to objectively analyze the play of our beloved football team, and contribute thoughtful, coherent posts. To me, he looks just like he did after the 07 Illinois game. Irrational, easily baited into contradicting himself. He struggles recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of the entire team due to his personal biases toward certain players and coaches. He also doesn't seem to have that "rally around me" effect on the board. He does inspire posters with similar ruby red reps to add to the buffoonery and jump to his defense; but for the regular posters, who's insightful observations keep this board going, he is merely an obstacle in the quest for civil discourse. I dare say that Cajunbuck could be our undoing this year, due to his missing cognitive powers, and his lack of being a "Buckeye". Do what's best for OSU and BP, add Cajunbuck to your ignore list.

Now that that's out of the way, the good thing about TB's performance is that it was solid, and the few mistakes are easily fixed. He tended to be a little high on his intermediate passes. The amount of time he was taking on reads I can't totally blame on him without seeing the coverage. I thought it was a little disturbing that our WRs failed to get separation on deep routes (Hartline's reception was the only one I remember). The two deep balls to Robo, he was double coverered, and TB decided to make the throw anyway. Both were nice passes that Robo had the better chance to grab, but I don't want to see those types of plays against USC or ILL. If the WRs are not getting separation, that may have alot to do with TB's hesitance to make quick reads. If that continues next week, I'd like to see Flash, Posey, and Saine run some fly routes, just to stretch the safety bubble. The play calling should also be a little better next week. Tressel did place some of the blame for the red zone problems on the calls. One thing I would like to see from any of our QBs is a killer fade pass in the red zone. With our WRs it should work to either side, if the timing's there.

 

[Dryden]

FWIW, my snarky little diatribe on the last 12 years wasn't directed at anyone in particular, nor should be taken as my vote of confidence, or dissent, for Boeckman.

I was just making the observation that the best QB on the roster is always the guy who isn't actually in the game at the present time, unless they're Troy Smith in 2006.

The problem is compounded 100-fold when you're the QB that's blocking Vince Young 2.0 from playing time. Hence my observation that everybody knows Pryor is the best option for this team, *nudge nudge, wink wink* until he goes out and throws 4 INTs like the Freshman he is, then it's Todd-time again.

In my eye, I think some of the criticism Boeckman receives should not even be on him, but on the receivers. The WRs just aren't getting the level of separation that we saw in the past with guys like Holmes, Ginn, and Gonzo. Heck, even the broadcasters mentioned it against YSU. When the RBs & WRs have come to play, such as when Ray Small and Mo Wells both stepped up big time at Penn State last year, Boeckman (not coincidentally) shined.

 

[MajesticTurkey]

In my eye, I think some of the criticism Boeckman receives should not even be on him, but on the receivers. The WRs just aren't getting the level of separation that we saw in the past with guys like Holmes, Ginn, and Gonzo. Heck, even the broadcasters mentioned it against YSU.

Precisely. When the Big Ten Network announcers have some insight, you know it's obvious. We don't have the incredible cast of receivers we have in years past, so the receivers we have now have to work harder to get open, and it seems at times they just aren't willing to. With how high on Boeckman Coach Sweatervest seems to be, I have no doubt that he sees the same issue. Boeckman, as far as we can tell so far, is everything we want in a QB. Poised, smart, good throws. A few mechanical errors, but nobody's perfect. A little slow on the release, but that hasn't hindered his game so far. It will, once we start playing some premier corners who will read that and close sooner, but that's not our issue here.

In short, the receivers need to get open, and force Todd to make one fewer choice (do I go for a pass that may or may not open, or do i tuck and run, or throw it away).

There will NEVER be a QB that leads a team to glory. A QB is dependent on his offensive line (like Tom Brady) or his receivers (like Brett Favre) or on his coach (like Drew Brees). A good QB is the most beneficial thing to a team you can have, but I don't know a single QB who can win without anyone around him, except perhaps Vince Young. And even then he needed a lot of luck and a few good breaks going his way to get the NC. What we have in Todd is a QB that does what we need him to do. If he takes care of the ball this year, then he'll just be Craig Krenzel - doing what needs to be done of a QB to get the ball to skill position playmakers. That will win the title.

I hope everyone here avoids the inevitable talk that will occur of starting Pryor over Boeckman. As long as Pryor is looking to Boeckman as a mentor, teacher, and QB-father, we should look to Pryor as still in development.