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Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Partially, I guess.

Once again, everyone currently at Ped State knew what they were getting into or had a chance to leave. If I invite you over to my house and say, "But, if you DO come over, I'm going to kick you in the balls" don't be fucking surprised when I kick you in the fucking balls.
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I thought you were kidding. Dick.
 
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I'm trying to figure out how I feel about this. I was disturbed that the NCAA got involved in a crimminal matter and leveled sanctions against a program that resulted in coaches and players being punished for things they had no direct connection with. For example, Ohio State is being punished right now for the perceived sins of Jim Tressel and TP/Tat 5. Does that make any sense? If not, then it doesn't make any sense to punish Franklin and Hackenburg for the sins of Sandusky and Paterno.

On the other hand, all the NCAA can do is punish programs, especially when the coach/player offenders get out of Dodge. And we are talking about child rape and pedophilia here - and I do recognize that putting the interests of the PSU football program ahead of the interests of child rape victims is despicabale - and deserving of some sanction. I thought the NCAA over-reached in their initial decision to get involved, but also over-reacted in the severity of the sanctions they imposed. That said, once you have imposed said sanctions, how seriously are you taking child rape when you cancel a significant portion of them?

Here's where I think the NCAA needs to go: punish specific players and coaches for specific misdeeds, and sacntion programs/schools/athletic departments only if they are complicit in the wrong-doing. If the cheating coach and player leaves, is fired, is suspended, etc. then that is the punishment. Make losing your job or eligibility the ultimate penalty, and then we will get away from this nonsense where Urban Meyer is 3 guys short because of the decisions of players that are no longer at Ohio State and a coach that is now the prez of another institution.
 
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OSUK said:
I'm trying to figure out how I feel about this. I was disturbed that the NCAA got involved in a crimminal matter and leveled sanctions against a program that resulted in coaches and players being punished for things they had no direct connection with. For example, Ohio State is being punished right now for the perceived sins of Jim Tressel and TP/Tat 5. Does that make any sense? If not, then it doesn't make any sense to punish Franklin and Hackenburg for the sins of Sandusky and Paterno.

On the other hand, all the NCAA can do is punish programs, especially when the coach/player offenders get out of Dodge. And we are talking about child rape and pedophilia here - and I do recognize that putting the interests of the PSU football program ahead of the interests of child rape victims is despicabale - and deserving of some sanction. I thought the NCAA over-reached in their initial decision to get involved, but also over-reacted in the severity of the sanctions they imposed. That said, once you have imposed said sanctions, how seriously are you taking child rape when you cancel a significant portion of them?

Here's where I think the NCAA needs to go: punish specific players and coaches for specific misdeeds, and sacntion programs/schools/athletic departments only if they are complicit in the wrong-doing. If the cheating coach and player leaves, is fired, is suspended, etc. then that is the punishment. Make losing your job or eligibility the ultimate penalty, and then we will get away from this nonsense where Urban Meyer is 3 guys short because of the decisions of players that are no longer at Ohio State and a coach that is now the prez of another institution.
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This is not a detriment against cheating. As a program, you cheat until you get caught, have a ton of plausible deniability, then just get rid of a few sacrificial lambs and keep on doing what you're doing. Also known as: how shit already works in big time college athletics.
 
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Mike80 said:
Fuck Ped State. Fuck the NCAA and fuck every single one of the subhuman scum that went out and cheered for the NCAA's lack of balls last night.
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Add the BIG to your list because they were part of the sanctioning IIRC so they must have agreed to ths sham...

I heard some local sports guys here in Indy discussing this tonight when a caller called in about how this was getting lost in the Ray Rice news and how disgusting that was. The local guy said that when he saw the video of the gathering of folks wanting the Joe statue returned he realized then that the NCAA should have burnt the program to the ground and that the folks there had not learned and the culture would never change. First time I think I have ever agreed with the guy.
 
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OSUK said:
Here's where I think the NCAA needs to go: punish specific players and coaches for specific misdeeds, and sacntion programs/schools/athletic departments only if they are complicit in the wrong-doing. If the cheating coach and player leaves, is fired, is suspended, etc. then that is the punishment. Make losing your job or eligibility the ultimate penalty, and then we will get away from this nonsense where Urban Meyer is 3 guys short because of the decisions of players that are no longer at Ohio State and a coach that is now the prez of another institution.
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They do that. Players are suspended and coaches are slapped with "show cause" status which makes them virtually impossible to hire. Tressel was essentially banned from coaching college football for five years for his violations.

The problem at Ped State is that they had the worst case of lack of institutional control imaginable. The football coach was able to overrule the AD AND the university President to hush up kids being raped in the athletic facilities. They didn't even have a compliance department. The football coach was able to run off university VPs for daring to suggest that football player discipline should go through normal channels. The football coach ordered that the entire athletic department not comply with the Clery Act. That was an institutional culture problem of the highest magnitude. The payers were all free to go elsewhere.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
They do that. Players are suspended and coaches are slapped with "show cause" status which makes them virtually impossible to hire. Tressel was essentially banned from coaching college football for five years for his violations.

The problem at Ped State is that they had the worst case of lack of institutional control imaginable. The football coach was able to overrule the AD AND the university President to hush up kids being raped in the athletic facilities. They didn't even have a compliance department. The football coach was able to run off university VPs for daring to suggest that football player discipline should go through normal channels. The football coach ordered that the entire athletic department not comply with the Clery Act. That was an institutional culture problem of the highest magnitude. The payers were all free to go elsewhere.
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+1

People that don't understand the meaning LOIC will never understand why the NCAA had to take action in 2012.
 
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I'm about all out of institutions I have any respect for...Heisman, NC2A...just goes on and on. Where ever did the concept go of having an ethical standard and holding to it no matter what? So disappointing and weak. So very, very weak. :shake:
 
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Delaware Buck said:
+1

People that don't understand the meaning LOIC will never understand why the NCAA had to take action in 2012.
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Does "institutional control" mean that you control, and are responsible for, every person within the program and their acts/decisions? If so, I dare say no one has institutional control. Urban and Gene Smith had LOIC with Tracey Sprinkle. They should have been staking out the Grown and Sexy on July 4. I am being ridiculous to demonstrate how ridiculous the concept is.

My understanding is that institutional control means that the rules are explained, some mechanisms are set in place to prevent common violations, and when a problem does occur, it is honestly reported and dealt with. Obviously, the Penn State football coach failed to do what he should have done, and the 2 AD guys, along with Spainier, failed to deal with the problem honestly. So, a clear example of LOIC.

But where I get hung up is how you punish/correct a LOIC. Paterno was fired, as were Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, and the latter 3 are facing prosecution. That LOIC seems to have brought very severe penalties to those responsible PRIOR TO, AND WITHOUT, ANY NCAA INVOLVEMENT. But then we also have this idea that the program had become so important that it created the context where a child rapist/pedophile's crimes were kept quiet. Yeah, I want that punished too so there is a bowl ban, loss of scholarships, and a huge fine. 60M fine seems to have a sufficient ouch factor. A 4 year ban and making PSU an FCS school is where we get into punishing players and coaches - who have no connection to the misdeeds, and had no hand in creating the culture in which the misdeeds occured. That's what I have a problem with because it is unfair on it's face (just as unfair as Ohio State taking the field with 3 less guys this year because of 2010-11 violations), and it isn't punishing anyone who was responsible for the LOIC or context it occured in - so how can it be corrective or helpful? It makes no sense.

I found the students' chanting of Paterno's name after the announcement of dropped sanctions in poor taste, and indicative that this particular group still doesn't get it. But do we want to suggest that the NCAA start regulating and sanctioning the thoughts and attitudes of fans? God help us if they start that nonsense.
 
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imo what you seem to be missing is that the culture is the problem, the ncaa cannot punnish the fans directly so they punnish the team and thereby punish the fans. It is the community and leadership at Pedd st that nutured and bottle fed this whole sainthood of curroption that needed protection from the fall.
 
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Penn State had a LOIC, because the cart was pushing the horse. The football coach hand picked the leadership of the athletic department, and basically told the University administration how it was going to be. The crimes were hidden for the purpose of not damaging the football team's brand. There was no compliance monitoring at Penn State - NONE. The culture at that school was rotten to the core, and it needed to be changed. Personally, I believe they should have gotten the death penalty, because I have never seen such a glaring example of LOIC!
 
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OSUK said:
Does "institutional control" mean that you control, and are responsible for, every person within the program and their acts/decisions? If so, I dare say no one has institutional control. Urban and Gene Smith had LOIC with Tracey Sprinkle. They should have been staking out the Grown and Sexy on July 4. I am being ridiculous to demonstrate how ridiculous the concept is.

My understanding is that institutional control means that the rules are explained, some mechanisms are set in place to prevent common violations, and when a problem does occur, it is honestly reported and dealt with. Obviously, the Penn State football coach failed to do what he should have done, and the 2 AD guys, along with Spainier, failed to deal with the problem honestly. So, a clear example of LOIC.

But where I get hung up is how you punish/correct a LOIC. Paterno was fired, as were Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, and the latter 3 are facing prosecution. That LOIC seems to have brought very severe penalties to those responsible PRIOR TO, AND WITHOUT, ANY NCAA INVOLVEMENT. But then we also have this idea that the program had become so important that it created the context where a child rapist/pedophile's crimes were kept quiet. Yeah, I want that punished too so there is a bowl ban, loss of scholarships, and a huge fine. 60M fine seems to have a sufficient ouch factor. A 4 year ban and making PSU an FCS school is where we get into punishing players and coaches - who have no connection to the misdeeds, and had no hand in creating the culture in which the misdeeds occured. That's what I have a problem with because it is unfair on it's face (just as unfair as Ohio State taking the field with 3 less guys this year because of 2010-11 violations), and it isn't punishing anyone who was responsible for the LOIC or context it occured in - so how can it be corrective or helpful? It makes no sense.

I found the students' chanting of Paterno's name after the announcement of dropped sanctions in poor taste, and indicative that this particular group still doesn't get it. But do we want to suggest that the NCAA start regulating and sanctioning the thoughts and attitudes of fans? God help us if they start that nonsense.
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Institutional control means you have enough control over the football program so that you don't use it to cover up children being molested. I don't think that's too much to ask.
 
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