Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

[AKAK]

Yes, they should, and they most likely will.

What I am saying is that the NCAA should hold the universities to the same standard if they want to flaunt their moral/ethics clauses. Both the HC and the AD were complict in the cover up of major felonies of a coach/ex-coach in order to not punish the brand. How can the NCAA not get involved? If this was just at the top, and Joe and Curley had nothing to do with the cover up, then the NCAA would have no reason to step in and investigate. Since it did involve both the AD and HC, then the NCAA has probable cause to go in a scour the Athletic Department now to see if there is more cover-ups going on either related to this situation, or any other cover-ups that may have occurred.

Kids get suspended for games for lying about a cheeseburger someone bought for them while on a recruiting trip, yet you seem to be saying that the NCAA should look the other way when a HC and AD in a major program were covering up felonious activity in order to save the brand doesn't warrant the same type of action?

The problem is you're, at the end, simply applying a moral standard that says covering up child rape is worse than covering up cheeseburgers. And morally, you are 100% correct.

There are things the NCAA does and doesn't do however.

If they want to stretch the ethics violations into major infractions, I'm sure they could. I don't think their mission is to "go there" - and even if they do, they're really stretching to levy serious penalties. It's a slippery slope that a lot of folks don't mind going down... but... I don't. And I don't think it's appropriate. (Especially if the reason for the NCAA to do it is to try to protect their own brand in return)

Finally, and this isn't directed at you. There's been one death penalty case. But, I think people forget that SMU got busted (for things obviously within the scope of NCAA regulation) got penalized, told to clean up their act and then just went ahead and kept doing it. Major infraction repeat offender with direct disregard for the sanctions levied against them.

Like it or not... dirty as you think they really might be... we're not even going to have a repeat offense... and they're going to have to stretch the rules to get an infraction in the first place.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

The problem is you're, at the end, simply applying a moral standard that says covering up child rape is worse than covering up cheeseburgers. And morally, you are 100% correct.

There are things the NCAA does and doesn't do however.

If they want to stretch the ethics violations into major infractions, I'm sure they could. I don't think their mission is to "go there" - and even if they do, they're really stretching to levy serious penalties. It's a slippery slope that a lot of folks don't mind going down... but... I don't. And I don't think it's appropriate. (Especially if the reason for the NCAA to do it is to try to protect their own brand in return)

Finally, and this isn't directed at you. There's been one death penalty case. But, I think people forget that SMU got busted (for things obviously within the scope of NCAA regulation) got penalized, told to clean up their act and then just went ahead and kept doing it. Major infraction repeat offender with direct disregard for the sanctions levied against them.

Like it or not... dirty as you think they really might be... we're not even going to have a repeat offense... and they're going to have to stretch the rules to get an infraction in the first place.

But some of these ethics are written into the bylaws as pointed out in the letter... they may be vaguely written, but acting upon the bylaws seems like it could easily be within the letter of the law

 

[Muck]

Solve for X motherfuckers.

X = ∞

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Like it or not... dirty as you think they really might be... we're not even going to have a repeat offense... and they're going to have to stretch the rules to get an infraction in the first place.

An infraction stemming from covering/enabling a pederast, yes.

However, it seems the Freeh report was pretty focused on that aspect; the coverup of Sandusky. It did hint at the 'culture' as mentioned above and I think it seems likely and even inevitable that there's been LOTS swept under the rug at State Penn over the years.

Whether the NCAA can get their hands on the evidence that Freeh obtained is abother story...

 

[AKAK]

An infraction stemming from covering/enabling a pederast, yes.

However, it seems the Freeh report was pretty focused on that aspect; the coverup of Sandusky. It did hint at the 'culture' as mentioned above and I think it seems likely and even inevitable that there's been LOTS swept under the rug at State Penn over the years.

Whether the NCAA can get their hands on the evidence that Freeh obtained is abother story...

One we know what, specifically, those things are, I'd be happy to consider them.

 

[BB73]

Which would help explain why they've never had an NCAA violation.

It's hard to violate rules that you don't even acknowledge exist while an old bastard that clearly isn't concerned with reporting things runs your entire community from the University Board of Trustees to local law enforcement for half a century.

Those cynics looking for the Freeh report to reveal that Sandusky was removed from consideration as JoePa's successor in 1998 due to the first investigation may have been surprised to see yesterday that Sandusky was told he wouldn't succeed Paterno earlier in 1998, before the May incident that triggered the first investigation. JoePa told Sandusky that his commitment to The Second Mile took up too much time, so Sandusky wouldn't be able to dedicate himself to the program like a head coach would need to do.

Also, although it wasn't disproved, there was no evidence in the Freeh report that McQueary received his assistant coaching job in order to stay quiet about Sandusky.

However, I believe there is other circumstantial evidence that points to a long-term cover-up. VP Schultz retired in 2009, and was replaced by Horvath, who announced last July that he was leaving for a job at the Smithsonian last September (he got out just in time). But PSU re-hired Schultz, at a time when the Grand Jury was wrapping things up and thing were just about to get nasty. I believe they re-hired Schultz in order to avoid having a new person around that would have access to old emails, etc., who wouldn't be hesitant to reveal a coverup by others.

Also, the long-annoying position of PSU being a state school, but not really be a state institution subject to FOIA requests, has a basis in not just being reluctant about revealing JoePa's salary - they had some serious skeletons in their email closets that they knew could potentially haunt them. The new administration needs to subject themselves to all FOIA requests as a sign on ongoing transparency.

Finally, JoePa's claim to not have email or know how to use a computer (unless he needed to send an email via an assistant coach's account, or wanted a letter of explanation to come out almost 6 months after he died), was a convenient way for him to maintain "plausible deniability' regarding Sandusky as a sexual predator, and also any other potential NCAA violations along the way. It also would have made potential perjury charges against him, were he still alive, be more difficult to prove.

 

[AKAK]

But some of these ethics are written into the bylaws as pointed out in the letter... they may be vaguely written, but acting upon the bylaws seems like it could easily be within the letter of the law

I believe the letter did mention something along the lines of "been applied half a dozen times" in the past, so, I'd be curious as to how.

Again, I understand everyone wanting to have the Pedsters get theirs... I don't understand the desire to give the NCAA even broader latitude to legislate morality. I guess it's because they are so good at what they do now.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I believe the letter did mention something along the lines of "been applied half a dozen times" in the past, so, I'd be curious as to how.

Again, I understand everyone wanting to have the Pedsters get theirs... I don't understand the desire to give the NCAA even broader latitude to legislate morality. I guess it's because they are so good at what they do now.

And I don't necessarily disagree with your approach to the NCAA's purview on this except to point out that it seems as if Emmert - in a rare epiphany of NCAA-forward-thinking - has thought through the angle you've taken and outlined what the NCAA's case could be vis-a-vis LOIC and the tools at their disposal within the bylaws.

 

[Saw31]

In the Freeh Report it mentions that Provost Rodney Erickson's involvement with the decision to name Sandusky a Coach Emeritus.

Rodney Erickson was named President of Penn State to replace Graham Spanier.

Exactly who I was thinking about when I made that post. And he's just one that we know about. There are probably dozens, if not more of PedPa's minions running around the administrative offices. Still lots of shit to power spray off the walls at that place.

Whether the NCAA can get their hands on the evidence that Freeh obtained is abother story...

In Freeh's Q&A, I seem to recall him saying both the NCAA and B1G had contacted him. IIRC, he said he kept them apprised of the process, but would not give them the findings until the full report was released publicly. IOW, they are just now going over the report, just like the rest of us.

 

[muffler dragon]

I found it particularly interesting in the Q&A when Freeh was asked how he found the documents. He said that it was luck and a matter of searching, and then stated (paraphrased), "When someone tries to conceal evidence that hard, it's a stupid thing to do". Just made me laugh and I hope there is something tangible to that statement that makes it out.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

If they did vacate victories from Joe Pa, I think that satisfies some of the blood thirst. Of course they would have to remove the Paterno statue + his name from the library, etc.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that tearing it down during this artfest thing would provoke massive riots. That it should be down by the end of the month is a no-brainer.

His name needs to come off the library, and if they need to give the family back the $4MM that should be an easy check to write. Plus, that'll just go to show that it wasn't some humble bit of support for the academics but just another brick in his self-aggrandizing wall of ego and image.

 

[muffler dragon]

Exactly who I was thinking about when I made that post. And he's just one that we know about. There are probably dozens, if not more of PedPa's minions running around the administrative offices. Still lots of shit to power spray off the walls at that place.

Bob Dvorchak last night on the radio said that there were no less than 15 people who knew about what happened in 1998.

 

[Mike80]

I guess I don't understand HOW a major university can get by without a centralized compliance department.

I guess now we know.

 

[Saw31]

Bob Dvorchak last night on the radio said that there were no less than 15 people who knew about what happened in 1998.

I'll wait for the FACTS to come out!






I would be shocked by this revelation, shocked I tell you!

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

Obviously we have way too many real attorneys on this site.. who SHOULD be working.. but for those that aren't

Can the 4 names that keep popping up.. can they be sued personally? Can Joe Pa's estate be sued by the victims?