Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

[AKAK]

I completely agree with the first half. It's the Big Ten Presidents, the AAU and the accrediting agencies that need to get involved.

There is massive LOIC. Again, I just think it's hard to shoehorn it into ncaa defined LOIC.

Let me be clear that is the point I'm making.

If some other organization wants to shut down their football program for being bumbling criminal fuck-ups, that's a different discussion. I just don't see a lot of NCAA here.

 

[buxfan4life]

I don't think the NCAA needs to be poking its nose into HOW universities are managed... and again, unless there are violations, there's no LOIC.

As to your last point, and I know you don't mean it this way, but, I would think, I would want the football coach to directly influence the punishment the players get. If I have a good coach, it's not going to be a luxury. I know you meant this in the other direction... and we'll see if anything comes from the improper benefit angle of that. But again, my current understanding of "improper benefits" is getting stuff, or preferential discounts (or free shoes) and when the NCAA suspends players for getting these, usually its and "Improper benefit of less than $500" or whatever. Not sure how you value fewer or more hours of community service.

Preferential treatment where a football player does not get the same discipline as other students according to the Student Code of Conduct, simply because they are football players is most definitely an improper benefit. The fact that Joe Ped basically wiped his ass with the school's Code of Conduct so that his players maintained their eligibilty should be a violation. Also, the NCAA, since it deals with universities, should also require that institutions adhere to the Clery Act wholey and fully, which clearly did not happen at Penn State, and the HC and AD were part of that violation.

I know a lot of people feel this is not a football problem, and therefore the NCAA has no ruling, but when it is shown that the HC of a major program has been covering up felonious activity in the name of preserving the brand, then it becomes indirectly a football problem since the HC is neck deep in the cover-up.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

I'm beginning to think that people are getting to hung up on LOIC as it pertains to known violations and punishments handed down by the NCAA. It would seem to me that the situation is well beyond LOIC. It's more like CIF or Complete Institutional Failure. I'm not sure what the NCAA does in situations of ethics but it would seem that the culture at PSU was without a doubt ethically and morally bankrupt. I'd dare say the NCAA might have to consider making up some shit for this case as nothing like this has happened before.

 

[AKAK]

I'm beginning to think that people are getting to hung up on LOIC as it pertains to known violations and punishments handed down by the NCAA. It would seem to me that the situation is well beyond LOIC. It's more like CIF or Complete Institutional Failure. I'm not sure what the NCAA does in situations of ethics but it would seem that the culture at PSU was without a doubt ethically and morally bankrupt. I'd dare say the NCAA might have to consider making up some shit for this case as nothing like this has happened before.

Is this in any way a good idea?

 

[AKAK]

Preferential treatment where a football player does not get the same discipline as other students according to the Student Code of Conduct, simply because they are football players is most definitely an improper benefit. The fact that Joe Ped basically wiped his ass with the school's Code of Conduct so that his players maintained their eligibilty should be a violation. Also, the NCAA, since it deals with universities, should also require that institutions adhere to the Clery Act wholey and fully, which clearly did not happen at Penn State, and the HC and AD were part of that violation.

I know a lot of people feel this is not a football problem, and therefore the NCAA has no ruling, but when it is shown that the HC of a major program has been covering up felonious activity in the name of preserving the brand, then it becomes indirectly a football problem since the HC is neck deep in the cover-up.

I just don't think this is appropriate. I get that folks want their pound of flesh, but, if there's a Clery act violation, uhhh... shouldn't the DOE deal with that?

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I don't think the NCAA needs to be poking its nose into HOW universities are managed... and again, unless there are violations, there's no LOIC.

As to your last point, and I know you don't mean it this way, but, I would think, I would want the football coach to directly influence the punishment the players get. If I have a good coach, it's not going to be a luxury. I know you meant this in the other direction... and we'll see if anything comes from the improper benefit angle of that. But again, my current understanding of "improper benefits" is getting stuff, or preferential discounts (or free shoes) and when the NCAA suspends players for getting these, usually its and "Improper benefit of less than $500" or whatever. Not sure how you value fewer or more hours of community service.

Again (and this is for all) I think the NCAA has found several bylaws of which PSU could be in violation

http://www.ncaa.com/content/ncaa-letter-penn-state

 

[Oh8ch]

I am in the camp that doesn't see a clear path within it's own bylaws for the NCAA to punish PSU, although I also believe such a path may be found and hope that it is.

That said, I am starting to see calls on the PSU boards for voluntary sanctions to placate the NCAA. 2 or 3 year bowl ban for example.

Let's look inside that Pandora's box.

Jim Tressel was deceitful. He hid information about players exchanging their own property for tattoos. His deceit allowed otherwise ineligible players to keep on playing.

Joe Paterno was deceitful. He hid information about children being sodomized. His deceit allowed children to continue to be sodomized for 14 years.

Now, let's turn that into an algebraic equation:

Lying to keep players eligible = one year bowl ban and 9 scholarships.

Lying so that children are sodomized = X.


Solve for X motherfuckers.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Now, let's turn that into an algebraic equation:

Lying to keep players eligible = one year bowl ban and 9 scholarships.

Lying so that children are sodomized = X.


Solve for X motherfuckers.

FIFY... wanted to add proper scale (as much as I could with BP's fonts)

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Now, let's turn that into an algebraic equation:

Lying to keep players eligible = one year bowl ban and 9 scholarships.

Lying so that children are sodomized = X.


Solve for X [censored]s.

X = 409 vacated victories and 2 years of no on-field competition.

 

[buxfan4life]

I just don't think this is appropriate. I get that folks want their pound of flesh, but, if there's a Clery act violation, uhhh... shouldn't the DOE deal with that?

Yes, they should, and they most likely will.

What I am saying is that the NCAA should hold the universities to the same standard if they want to flaunt their moral/ethics clauses. Both the HC and the AD were complict in the cover up of major felonies of a coach/ex-coach in order to not punish the brand. How can the NCAA not get involved? If this was just at the top, and Joe and Curley had nothing to do with the cover up, then the NCAA would have no reason to step in and investigate. Since it did involve both the AD and HC, then the NCAA has probable cause to go in a scour the Athletic Department now to see if there is more cover-ups going on either related to this situation, or any other cover-ups that may have occurred.

Kids get suspended for games for lying about a cheeseburger someone bought for them while on a recruiting trip, yet you seem to be saying that the NCAA should look the other way when a HC and AD in a major program were covering up felonious activity in order to save the brand doesn't warrant the same type of action?

 

[Muck]

The problem there is that there are still plenty of minions running around that campus. They only fired the top minions...

In the Freeh Report it mentions that Provost Rodney Erickson's involvement with the decision to name Sandusky a Coach Emeritus.

Rodney Erickson was named President of Penn State to replace Graham Spanier.

I'll believe they'll tear this down when I see it happen.

A single block of C4 should be enough to completely circle the base with a ring charge.

Have a solid exfil plan.

Easy peasy.

 

[colobuck79]

And didn't a witness say that the current coach knew something?

 

[PlanetFrnd]

X = 409 vacated victories and 2 years of no on-field competition.

In all seriousness:

Year... Wins...Losses
1998..... 9 ........ 3
1999..... 10 ...... 3
2000..... 5 ........ 7
2001..... 5 ........ 6
2002..... 9 ........ 4
2003..... 3 ........ 9
2004..... 4 ........ 7
2005..... 11 ...... 1
2006..... 9 ........ 4
2007..... 9 ........ 4
2008..... 11 ...... 2
2009..... 11 ...... 2
2010...... 7 ....... 6
2011..... 9 ........ 4
Total... 112..... 60

409-112 = 297 === not quite as good as Tubby Raymond

 

[ucfknight]

If they did vacate victories from Joe Pa, I think that satisfies some of the blood thirst. Of course they would have to remove the Paterno statue + his name from the library, etc.

 

[HorseshoeFetish]

Is this in any way a good idea?

IMO...yes. That was a Chet line from Weird Science btw. You are trying to say that the NCAA shouldn't be involved because it's uncharted territory and in your eyes there is no clear "violation". I'm saying the NCAA should be involved for the same reasons. Let's not forget that the BoT didn't hire Louie to find NCAA violations, they hired him to find out how deep this scandal went. What we got were references to a "football culture" as being the reason these crimes went unreported. I believe that this opens the door to the NCAA investigators to pick through this mess and find something appropriate to stick PSU with.