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daveeb;1307063; said:
Here are my thoughts:

1. Guys, he's a True Freshman playing in the Big Ten. His center is a True Freshman. One of his Wide Receivers and possibly his favorite target is a True Freshman. His second running back is a Redshirt Freshman. His kick returner, the guy who sets up where he starts, is a True Freshman.

I'll give u Brewster.. although i dont think that matters much.. isnt Georgia starting a true frosh center and RT as they hang 50 points on LSU..

Im not buying your arguments about Posey, Herron, and Thomas.. cmon, that's silly..

All I know is that Robert Griffin down at Baylor... with alot less to work with is leading an offense that's about 50th in the nation, playing in a much tougher conference, as a true frosh... and our offense is like 95th or something..

Using the "we're starting a freshman QB" excuse to take blame off these schemes and playcalling would be acceptable if we were ranking around where Baylor is ranking... Ranking 95th in offense at Ohio St. with the best RB in the country, a senior laden Oline, veteran TEs, and veteran WRs... is simply unacceptable.. and that is not Pryor's fault.. it is the fault of Jim Bollman and Coach Tressel
 
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This is what I don't get.

Tress is all about the odds. He opines that conservative playcalling, ball control, punting field position is the name of the game.

I think it is quite the contrary. If you keep it close, then one play can change the outcome of the game. Chances are that sometimes the other team will be the beneficiary, and you will loose the game.

IMO (totally non-football mind) if you score more points, than your chances of having a single play determine the outcome go down dramaticly.

You still can play field position. You can still be conservative. But score two TD's and all this BS would be mute.

I just don't get it.
 
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Buckeyecty4;1307090; said:
Using the "we're starting a freshman QB" excuse to take blame off these schemes and playcalling would be acceptable if we were ranking around where Baylor is ranking... Ranking 95th in offense at Ohio St. with the best RB in the country, a senior laden Oline, veteran TEs, and veteran WRs... is simply unacceptable.. and that is not Pryor's fault.. it is the fault of Jim Bollman and Coach Tressel

USC was game planning. LSU was play calling. UF was forgetting to show up. This one is the lack of execution by the OL. If Beanie was out and we had someone else back there getting two yards a pop, I would be incensed too. But it is what it is. When the bread and butter can't buy a yard because of the horrendous OL play, then perhaps you'd be just lucky to be in this game in the first place. I agree that it's still Bollman, but it's not for play calling. They passed 12 times out of the 25 first down plays they ran.
 
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I do not get it...I honestly just do not get it. Maybe it's because I've grown up without a championship in my hometown (Philly, PA), and just straight up let down after let downand just flat out dissapointment. Teams who are picked to "go all the way" and don't and just play embarrassing ball. Every sport has been an embarrassment...the Flyers, Eagles and the Sillies (although that will change tomorrow night :biggrin:). I have been a Phillies season ticket holder the past 3 seasons and they have been dissapointing, the flyers and eagles get to the playoffs and like a dick tease, only take you so far.

So why am I talking about three sports that have no bearing on Buckeye Football at all? because this year I sold my lower level left field row 11 GAME 5 World Series tickets for a good amount of cash...I turned around and spent it on two tickets for Ohio State Michigan...well not all of it but you catch my drift. As I look back on that decision now after the PSU game and after games 3 and 4, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again either. The Buckeyes are my team and they mean the most to me without any Philly team comming remotely close. I am very passionate about it and when they lose I take it to heart just like the rest of you.

What I cannot stand is everyone crying about the loss last night. IMHO it is childish and immature. LJB you brought a lot of great points with that post and I agree with alot of it. I am tired of hearing everyone say "The Season is over", "This is a dissapointment", "It's all TP's fault", etc. It's all bullshit and you guys need to look at it from another perspective. The last time I looked 10-2, being second in the Big 10 and a chance to goto the Rose Bowl (PSU goes to the MNC) is not dissapointing. It was an extremely hard fought game with a lot of chances for both teams to win. Penn State made no mistakes and we made one. It could have been the other way around easily. Like I posted earlier, I was the only Buckeye fan in a bar full of PSU fans. After they won they gave me a good game and there is nothing to be ashamed of. They were flat out SHOCKED they only won by 7 points. Most of those asshats thought they were going to win by 24 or MORE points. Make no mistake about it PSU is an excellent team. WE HAVE NOTHING TO BE DISSAPOINTED, ASHAMED, OR PISSED OFF FOR! Look to the future, hold your head up high, the future is bright.

By the way, this season isn't over...the future starts with M!ch!gan and I see another year they have to wait until they see a W. GO Buckeyes and keep working hard, cause God knows..Some of us are proud of you!

ps. sorry for the long post needed to get that off my chest.
 
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A program and fan base at a crossroad

My two cents; we as a fan base and the football program as a whole are at a collective crossroad.

(A) Are we happy to win at least 3 out of 4 against TSUN, win the Big Ten title at least every other year, have a good chance to at least get to or be in the hunt for the NC game, and have a team who with a few exceptions is comprised of players we are proud of on and off the field... OR

(B) Is it absolutely vital that we get to the NC game every few years and not just make it there but actually show up and not get embarrassed; all the while accomplishment most if not all of the things mentioned in A

As a student who had to endure the Cooper years, I would have given my left testicle to win even HALF of the games against scUM, let alone anything close to the current record Tressel owns against them. I can recall saying I would take a 1-11 record as long as the 1 was a win vs scUM; did I mean it? I doubt it deep down but it is a real reflection on how much things (for better or worse) have changed about our expectations.

Whether or not you would put yourself and/or the goals of the football program as a whole in the A or B category, I still believe that both can be accomplished with Tressel at the helm.

When he was hired on at the end of a string of disappointing season ending losses to Michigan, he was given the goal of ending that trend, giving us the odd Big Ten title or two, and recruiting kids we can be proud of on and off the field. He has completed those goals and then some and even given us the bonus of one NC team under his watch. If you are in the A crowd, then he has done nothing to disappoint.

If you find yourself drifting into the B crowd, then I believe that is still possible with just a few changes. We are incredibly lucky to still be able to recruit some awesome classes and elite players, despite the back to back losses in the NC game, so I believe with the exception of the OL the talent is here. But will todays player still come to tOSU in the forseeable future if we continue to lay an egg in big OOC/NC games? We will always be able to recruit the die-hard in state I've wanted to be a Buckeye my whole life kinda player; the elite recruits may start to waver a bit when faced with the prospect of playing (boring to some) Tresselball. In my opinion plan-B is only achievable if we either hire a new OL coach and/or let Tressel turn over the play calling reigns to an new coordinator. Every big game team we have faced and lost in the last few years have all said the same things..."We knew what was coming and we stopped it". I don't know if I can give the defense a free pass on some of the NC/USC losses, but when the offense goes 3 and out time after time, they can only play flawless D for so long. You can say what you want about lack of execution but sometimes bad playcalling can be just as big a key to failure as poor execution.

I don't even know for sure what crowd I would put myself in these days. I have been blessed to see within recent memory a winning recored against scUM, back to back Big Ten title, and even the once in a lifetime for some programs National Champion. Is it unreasonable to expect B when A is what Tressel was hired for? Maybe so, but I think with just a few maybe not so minor changes we can have our cake and eat it too so to speak.

P.S. I was front row 50 yard line for the USC/Washington St game two saturdays ago. For one brief moment I had a glimmer of what it is like to be in the fanbase would would give BOTH testicles to have anything close to the equivalent of (A) in their future. My GOD that was an awful display of football, USC could of scored 150 points if they were even remotely inclined to.
 
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If last night had been my first experience with American football, then I'd never watch another game again. That was quite simply the lamest, ugliest excuse for a football game that I've ever seen, and both teams were equally at fault. The one and only big play in the entire game resulted from a boneheaded move on the simpliest play in football - the quarterback sneak (but more on that later). It wasn't a defensive slugfest ... it was offensive ineptitude at the highest level.

I enjoyed it. Looked to me like two teams who wanted to win. It was two schools known for great D playing great D.

2) Terrelle Pryor is a true freshman, and we certainly expect him to make freshman mistakes. But his fumble on the aforementioned quarterback sneak was not a freshman mistake ... it was a stupid play. Pryor has played enough football to know that his job is to take the snap, follow his center, fall forward, gain eighteen inches, and go back to the huddle to call the next play. You can't become a hero on a quarterback sneak, Terrelle ... but you certainly can become a goat.

Ya, that was a mistake nobody should make. Although I'm a little upset because it ultimately cost us the game. It wasn't nearly all his fault.

3) Before the year started, I thought that Pryor would win a game all by himself, and he did that at Wisconsin. And now he has the distinction of losing a game all by himself. It's generally pretty difficult to identify a single play throughout the course of a game that was the definitive turning point, but his fumble was that play. At that time, Ohio State was up 6-3, with 11:03 left in the game, with third down and inches to go. The Buckeyes had just run five straight times for a combined 22 yards, and had crossed into Penn State territory. The Nittanty Lions' defense looked like it was finally wearing down, and a successful quarterback sneak would have given the Buckeyes further momentum and a fresh set of downs ... and capping the drive with a touchdown would have essentially ended the game. But after the fumble, Penn State got the ball in great field position and eventually scored the game-winning touchdown against a rather dis-spiritied Ohio State defense. Although they had a final chance (see below), the Buckeyes never really recovered from that unfortunate play.

100% agreed

4) The fumble was definitely Terrelle Pryor's "Joe Pisarcik Moment", but he did have a chance to redeem himself at the end of the game. Down 13 to 6 with 1:07 left, the Buckeyes began their final drive of the game at their own 20-yard line after a touchback. Pryor completed a couple of passes to Ray Small to move the ball into Penn State territory, and then he tried to play the hero once again. After a fierce pass rush from Aaron Maybin (more on that later), Pryor rolled out to the right, set himself, somehow found Brian Hartline engulfed in a sea of white jerseys, and with plenty of time to throw launched a bomb into triple coverage that was promptly picked off. On that play, the four Penn State pass rushers were all caught inside, three pass defenders were following Hartline to the endzone, and the short zone on that side of the field had been vacated. Pryor was already near the right sideline, so all he had to do was take off running, gain ten or fifteen yards for the first down, go out of bounds to stop the clock, and then run the next play. But instead, Terrelle thought with his ego and not with his reason, and he went for the highlight reel play instead of the sure thing. Now of course, we can write that off as a "freshman mistake", but we also have to wonder if Pryor is one of those players who will always try to win the game all by himself ... and if that is the case, does he have the talent to do so? If the answer to the latter question is "yes", then we may have the next Vince Young in Columbus ... but if the answer is "no", then we might just have a problem on our hands....

Think you're being too critical here. I am left wondering why our coaches drew up a hail mary type play with that much time left. I understand why TP didn;t run it also. There was a man close enough to make a play on him, and if he doesnt get out the game is over b/c we are out of TO's. Not that he should have chucked a rainbow into triple coverage.... I just didn't like the play call.

5) Two big games, nine total points. That ain't gettin' it done, folks. It all starts up front, and after a few solid (but certainly not spectacular) games in a row, the Buckeyes' offensive line reverted to their true form ... getting blown up on running plays and blown by on passing plays. Blame the coaching all you want, but the talent ... and the depth ... just isn't there.

Agreed. A certain someone was obviously getting burned all night. I'm sure we all know who I mean. Coaching can only do so much.

6) And another thing about the offensive line ... have the Buckeyes had a truly athletic offensive lineman since Orlando Pace? Maybe LeCharles Bentley and Nick Mangold, but that's about it. Brewster, Shugarts, and Adams seem to be a huge step up in terms of athleticism ... and Justin Boren is a proven commodity ... so let's hope that the offensive line gets a huge upgrade next season.

Especially if Beanie leaves. We won't have a back who can take on 3 people and keep rumbling. I'm not being left confident with our OL for the rest of this year or next. Heres to praying Shugarts, Brewster, and Adams are the real deal.

7) While the offense was anemic last night, the defense wasn't anything special. Yeah, they held the allegedly high-powered Nittany Lion offense to 13 points and 281 total yards (both season lows), but we all watched the game last night, and none of us was impressed with that Penn State team. The defense made no big plays (no turnovers, one sack), did nothing to change the momentum of the game, couldn't hold Penn State to a field goal after the Pryor fumble, and couldn't force the Lions to punt on their final drive. In general, the Buckeyes' defense got "out-hit" by the Lion's offense ... the Penn State offensive line won most of the battles in the trenches, and the Penn State ball carriers were consistently able to fight through tackles for extra yardage. Oh, it wasn't a bad game by the Buckeye defense by any means, but when they were called on to win the game in spite of the Buckeye offense, they just couldn't do it ... and that is what separates a truly great defense (2002) from a merely good defense (2008).

I disagree. Our D easily put our boys into position to win. The only downfall for me was letting Royster run all over them when Devlin came in. I don't understand how anyone can blame our D when they only gave up 13 points.

8) Penn State was called for exactly one penalty last night (it was declined by Ohio State). If those had been two SEC teams, then we'd all be saying that the officials (with orders from the league office) were trying to help the undefeated team stay undefeated so that they could get to the big money national championship game. But those were Big Ten officials last night, so we can just blame it on plain old incompetence.

It's beyond me how that is possible as well. They should be reviewed. Although still wasn;t a reason we lost.

9) I don't care what anyone says, games like last night's hurt worse than the blow-out losses. Yeah, we can try to rationalize those games away with a bunch of "what ifs", but in reality we know that our team got beat from start to finish by the likes of Florida, LSU, and USC. Last night, however, we really should have won the game, and but for perhaps the single most ill-advised, momentum-killing play in the history of Buckeye football, we probably would have won the game. And that just plain sucks....

I agree 100%. I was more ticked after the blowouts but the next day I moved on. Today I've been upset all day. Just disapointed bc this time I know we should of won and didn't.

10) Was it just me, or did the whole team seem flat for most of the game? For a homecoming night game against the #3 team in the country, it sure seemed like the visitors were way more pumped up than the home squad.

I don't think so. The D was doing well and flying around nicely getting the crowd into it. The O did seem flat though.

11) I am convinced that several players on this team "mailed in" the season from day one. Fortunately, they'll all be gone next year. No names, please, but I am not referring to Jenkins, Laurinaitis, or Boeckman....

I know exactly who you are reffering to. I just don't get how anyone could do that. You'd think those in question would want it more then that.

12) This is Ohio State. There are no moral victories, no good losses, no learning experiences. The Buckeyes are supposed to win 80-90% of their games, and last night's contest was one that should have gone in the "win" column. No excuses.

Yes and no. I believe it was good for Pryor in the long run. Thats about it.

13) After the USC game, I said that the Buckeyes' season was officially "over", and that Tressel should start Terrelle Pryor for the remainder of the year so that he could gain valuable experience for the 2009 season. It worked. Now I'm saying that the Big Ten season is officially "over", and that Tressel should open up the offensive play book so that Pryor can gain valuable experience for the 2009 season. Please listen...

The season is certainly not over. We could still manage a share of the B10 and who knows, maybe even still win it outright. That and we still have a good shot at a BCS game if we win out. Also, we still need to send our seniors out with another win against scUM. I do agree we need to let Pryor get more of the playbook. I also think we need to let some younger guys get some more shots as well. In place of some who haven't earned their right to keep starting or playing as much.
 
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If PSU/OSU win out, OSU would most likely end up in the Rose. So this loss didn't take as much off the table as the USC loss did. I really think that OSU will take care of whoever the opponent will be in the Rose. Look at 2005 for comparison, Troy Smith made OSU a much more dangerous team at the end. TP will elevate this OSU team by bowl time. OSU should take the 3 remaining teams behind the woodshed to take advantage of all the bloodshed that's about to happen to top 10 teams. A top 5 finish is still possible because crazy things tend to happen at the end of the season and I don't think it will be much different this time around. There's still a lot to play for, like a revenge game against USC or SEC.
 
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Buckeyecty4;1307090; said:
and our offense is like 95th or something..
In some areas they're in the hundreds. It's worse than you think.
Using the "we're starting a freshman QB" excuse to take blame off these schemes and playcalling would be acceptable if we were ranking around where Baylor is ranking... Ranking 95th in offense at Ohio St. with the best RB in the country, a senior laden Oline, veteran TEs, and veteran WRs... is simply unacceptable.. and that is not Pryor's fault.. it is the fault of Jim Bollman and Coach Tressel
Add to the talent a very good looking freshman running back, a freshman burner for kick off and punt return work, and a freshman receiver whose playing well and getting open. Add also that the problems on the O-line are not happening at center, but at guard and tackle, especially the two tackles.

Next time you're at a game watch 75 warm up and interact with the team. Let me know what you see and what you think.

As for the season, yeah, the second Laurenitus signed on for senior year, along with Jennings, you knew the defense would be solid, what you didn't know was that the loss of Gholston would take most of the pass rush away and a good deal of the up front push, and that the DC would put the D in the nickle for the entire final 4 minutes of the game, when everyone in the house knew PSU was going to try and pound it and play beat the clock.

I can't find it in me to put one ounce of blame on Terrelle. Tressel knew the RAW potential of this kid and must have made some very early assessments regarding this o-line. He knew that kicking 5 field goals against YSU, dancing with OU into the final quarter, meant this team was not ready for prime time. I think the big score against the spartans caused me to forget what I had witnessed against Purdue and the first half of the season. When you re-watch that game you realize that 14 points are scored by the defense and the offense had the ball on the MSU 17, 37 and their own 47 in the first half... even a blind pig finds the acorn...

Finally, when it takes a running back of the caliber of Beanie, Pittman or MoC to have ANY kind of running attack there's something seriously wrong with the line and the line coaching. When Beanie went down there was no running game to speak of. When MoC couldn't play UC was the equal of the National Champs. And how quickly we forget the time in between Mo and the Pittman/Beanie era when the bucks couldn't run a lick. That's the responsibility of the O-line.
 
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nwbuckeye;1307136; said:
I don't even know for sure what crowd I would put myself in these days. I have been blessed to see within recent memory a winning recored against scUM, back to back Big Ten title, and even the once in a lifetime for some programs National Champion. Is it unreasonable to expect B when A is what Tressel was hired for? Maybe so, but I think with just a few maybe not so minor changes we can have our cake and eat it too so to speak.

P.S. I was front row 50 yard line for the USC/Washington St game two saturdays ago. For one brief moment I had a glimmer of what it is like to be in the fanbase would would give BOTH testicles to have anything close to the equivalent of (A) in their future. My GOD that was an awful display of football, USC could of scored 150 points if they were even remotely inclined to.

I agree with much of your sentiment, but there are only two other programs in the Big 10 that can compete with OSU on a steady basis and only another dozen or so programs in the nation that have similar advantages. The Bucks enjoy enormous advantages in terms of tradition, fan base, and MONEY. This team will have no less than two first round draft picks and probably another six drafted. That's beaucoup talent. That's talent that shouldn't get embarrassed in big games, talent that shouldn't go THREE games without an offensive touchdown. And that's a program where fans are going to be highly critical and demanding.
 
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cincibuck;1307205; said:
Next time you're at a game watch 75 warm up and interact with the team. Let me know what you see and what you think.

i dont see a direct correlation between jumping up and down, bumping chests, swinging my arms around, drawing attention to oneself with antics and anything. in fact i think we live in a culture which celebrates a tailback who stays on the field before the game after his team leaves the field during the pregame and stands out on the field by themselves and swings their arms around jumpinig up and down. i dont really care what you do as long as you act with class and play football. telling the crowd to get louder when you are on the road doesnt do much for me.




we can go round and round but the reality is not one person in this thread has hit the nail on the thread why we lost the game....
 
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daveeb;1307063; said:
Here are my thoughts:
7. From what I heard, the reception for Coop was less than favorable. Very disappointed.


I don't think Coop was received badly but I know why you would say that. As he was being presented with his award Penn St. came running out of the locker room and the crowd started booing them. I'm pretty sure no one was booing Coop (as frustrating as the 90's were:().
 
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jimotis4heisman;1307212; said:
i dont see a direct correlation between jumping up and down, bumping chests, swinging my arms around, drawing attention to oneself with antics and anything. in fact i think we live in a culture which celebrates a tailback who stays on the field before the game after his team leaves the field during the pregame and stands out on the field by themselves and swings their arms around jumpinig up and down. i dont really care what you do as long as you act with class and play football. telling the crowd to get louder when you are on the road doesnt do much for me.




we can go round and round but the reality is not one person in this thread has hit the nail on the thread why we lost the game....

Because Penn State scored more points?

Look, we lost the WWI aspect of this game, plain and simple...trench warfare. The run blocking was awful, and the pass rush was pedestrian at best. We also didn't stop the running game in the 4th quarter when we needed to, or get the goal line stand we were set up for.

FACT: I've seen some blame the refs for not calling holding, but Big Ten refs never call holding, and let's face it...if you want holding calls, you have to be in POSITION TO MAKE A PLAY to get the holding call, and that just didn't happen either. We played solid defense, but we played defensive defense in the 2nd half...there wasn't a lot of swarming attack at the line, especially in the 2nd half. They're not going to call holding if you aren't going to make a play, and our line didn't get called for it either, remember (though, they didn't really block much, so...)

FACT: Royster had more yards on less carries than Wells. That is simply unacceptable. I like Royster, he's a fine back, and when he is a senior he will be a nightmare...Wells is supposed to be the nightmare right now, but when you're 1 on 6 because of the lack of blocking, it's hard to look like the guy who has single-handedly carried us to at least half a dozen victories over his career, and owns Michigan. That's not the fault of Wells. He had to be sick to his stomach after the game.

FACT: Penn State's defense is well coached, solid in their fundamentals, and play hard football. They do not, however, have game-changers athletically, nor any real great players individually. Schematically, they were good, but if we had any blocking at all at the point of attack, their line is nothing special. They run a lot of guys in there, they rush the passer pretty well with 4 on the wings, but there is no reason on earth we should not have been able to run the ball.

FACT: Pryor should not have fumbled. Well duh. He will learn better ball security when he runs outside, it's the growing pains of a guy who never had to worry about those things as much when he was just that much better than everyone else in HS. That said, he was trying harder and was more distraught about the loss than the entire rest of the offense (save Wells perhaps) combined, so it's hard to fault the kid for trying hard and failing. At least he left it all out there...can the line say the same?

FACT: The playcalling was typical, and teams are starting to figure it out. We ran a bunch of points up early against Michigan State, but when Tressel gets into a big game, he's always relied on the special teams and defense, but less emphasized has been his reliance almost completely on the running game, which requires good 2nd half blocking. We've gotten away with it in the past because it was good enough, we've had high calibur backs, and that teams knew what was coming, but couldn't do anything about it in the 4th quarter because they were tired. Penn State did not have that problem, and we saw the result. The knock on Tressel in the media has been that he is a Big Ten coach who tailors his game to the conference and can't win the big one OOC. However it is clear that changes are needed in the "big game" strategy, conference or not.

In any event, we were not only in position to win, but had all the momentum and the lead in the 4th quarter...the team did not respond at all for the rest of the game, and the clock management wasn't all that good either. It was a bad loss, not because of the score or the quality of the opponent, but because of what it shows about where our team is right now.
 
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So - does Penn State get mauled by Texas or Bama ...or Oklahoma? if they get to the BCS championship game?

Would you want JoPa to win it for the Big-10, or hope they get thumped because they are State Penn?
 
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If ya go back to the preseason threads, you'll see a lot of level headed posters warning that if TB was not our starting QB come Michigan, Ohio State's problems would not be whether or not they'd get to the Title game.

Plain fact is this - relying on a Freshman QB to get you there is all but certain to doom you to not getting it done. That's not a knock on Pryor, it's a statement of reality. Something tells me the same idiots who are calling this season a waste or an embarrassment are the same shitfucks who were also first in line on the bench Boeckman bandwagon.

Pryor's fumble, btw, was not careless. He had a good hold on the ball and was making a good read regarding how to execute that particular play. He coulda dove forward at the snap, and he would have gained the yard (inch). BUT... if he beats that tackle from the guy (Rubin) who caused the fumble, Pryor's a hero for gaining 25 or so yards. It didn't work out... big fucking deal. It sucks, but it's reality for shits sake. Get the fuck over it and enjoy the last three games and a quality bowl.

Likewise, on the game planning - and to echo Bucklion - if things had stayed clean - that is Pryor doesn't fumble - two more minutes come off the clock at least, PSU starts at their own 20 or so (probably, assuming a punt and no score) and with the way the D was playing, I like OSU's chances.

This outcome isn't about "Fault" so much as it's about the fact that Rubin made a hell of a play and it cost us. That's football. This loss hurts because it's a loss... but there's not a thing embarrassing about it... there's not anything to say "Well, this is fucking waste of a year" It's a loss. They happen.

Point is, If this is the worst that ever happens to you, you're life is pretty good.... so shut your fucking yap.
 
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