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OL Justin Boren (Official Thread)

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HailToMichigan;1127925; said:
When I go into politics, no doubt you'll be right there with a microphone and a notepad. Stop trying to twist my words around to make that ludicrous claim. Find me where I said that. Find me where I said anything stronger than he was probably going to have to earn his job in camp like everyone else. And find me where I said I believed he'd lose his job.
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I agree that you have not used those exact words - but I am surprised by the implication you offer up, ok, surprised is the wrong word, skeptical is closer.
Your implication - under Carr et al there was no competition for starting roles, well, certainly not for Boren.
Spring Ball through till end of August surely something like that would have played out anyway, each year.
Exhibit 1 - 2004
Michigan coach Lloyd Carr is always eager to watch the competition that develops during spring practice
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Exhibit 2 - 2007
Here?s how Carr broke down the battle at various positions:
Right Tackle
Carr?s conclusion: ?You know, it?s just too close to call at this point.?
Steve Schilling: ?I think at right tackle, Steve Schilling has had an excellent fall. He?s an extremely talented guy, with great size and athletic ability. A guy that is smart and loves to play. I think he?ll be a great player here someday.
Mark Ortmann: ?I think Mark Ortmann has done a very good job and has competed well.?
Carr also mentioned Perry Dorrestein, but added no commentary.
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Could go on - but it is pretty obvious that there were not guaranteed positions at TSUN before RR either, that there was competition - and really, isn't that the normal state of affairs at a D-1A program?
 
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JCOSU86;1127937; said:
I don't think you can be more clear than this.
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Originally Posted by Jaxbuck
If you aren't in politics you should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HailToMichigan
When I go into politics, no doubt you'll be right there with a microphone and a notepad. Stop trying to twist my words around to make that ludicrous claim. Find me where I said that. Find me where I said anything stronger than he was probably going to have to earn his job in camp like everyone else. And find me where I said I believed he'd lose his job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HailToMichigan
I never, ever, ever claimed Boren wouldn't start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HailToMichigan
...given that RR declared open season on every starting job, it should have come as no surprise if someone else demonstrated a better grasp of the system and Boren sat.

It's clear to me from all of those posts that HTM is correct that he never stated that Boren would lose his job. All he stated is that it wouldn't be a surprise. Big difference between that and actually stating he wouldn't start.

Having said that, yeah, it's obvious that HTM is trying to minimize the impact/loss and embarrassment of this, but he never stated anything beyond the fact that it wouldn't be a surprise if Boren lost his job. Is that stretching things...I think so, but we're stretching things just as much by attempting to pin him down as definitively stating he WOULDN'T have started.

Meh, BB73 said what I said first, and he said it better. Thanks BB.
 
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I think what I read Jwins as saying was that IF Boren had chosen to attend Ohio State when he originally graduated from HS he would have broken into the lineup by now and maybe sooner (as in last season).

I agree by the way.
 
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ysubuck;1128024; said:
I think what I read Jwins as saying was that IF Boren had chosen to attend Ohio State when he originally graduated from HS he would have broken into the lineup by now and maybe sooner (as in last season).

I agree by the way.
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Damn. Then I'm the idiot? Oh well, I'm used to it by now. :biggrin:
 
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sandgk;1127965; said:
Your implication - under Carr et al there was no competition for starting roles, well, certainly not for Boren.
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I guess I can see how I might have come off like that. I don't mean to imply that the difference between RR and Carr is that RR introduced competition for the job while Carr just handed out starting spots. All I'm saying - and I will try and be as clear as possible about my meaning - is that Rich Rodriguez and Lloyd Carr are two different coaches with different systems and different eyes for evaluating talent. RR came in and it was clear that being a starter under Carr did not necessarily mean being a starter under Rodriguez. The cream rises to the top, and I don't doubt that Boren would have too. But the offense is as night-and-day different as it's possible to be, and RR would have been doing the program a disservice if he didn't look with a critical eye at every position and evaluate each player's ability to play with his own eyes. Therefore nobody who doesn't have some kind of firsthand witness of practices and workouts and whatnot (and I do not) can say with 100% certainty that Boren, or anyone, is a lock to start. Given my belief that RR is starting as fresh as possible, it naturally follows that Boren was not simply going to be handed the job. Which is all I ever tried to say in the first place.
 
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So summarizing - there was competition before, there is competition now, there would be competition if Boren went to tOSU.

Reasonable conclusion - competition isn't the reason why Boren left TSUN.
 
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HailToMichigan;1128099; said:
RR came in and it was clear that being a starter under Carr did not necessarily mean being a starter under Rodriguez. The cream rises to the top . . . .
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The ufortunate extended version of that cliche goes on to say:

. . . . along with cream, so to does scum.

Please notice that I didn't capitalize the "u" or the "m."
 
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sandgk;1128110; said:
So summarizing - there was competition before, there is competition now, there would be competition if Boren went to tOSU.

Reasonable conclusion - competition isn't the reason why Boren left TSUN.
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May I add:

Starting on TSUN's OL last year demonstrates that Boren wasn't a p*ssy before.

Having a good shot at a starting spot (even with RR's new-fangled S&C program) means that Boren is not a p*ssy now.

Reasonable conclusion: p*ssissitude isn't the reason why Boren left TSUN.
 
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