AnnArborBuck
Junior
The big thing that happened when Fox went out is Marshall got their outside running game going. Fox is such a great run stopping CB.
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- Thread starter ohiobuck94
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I'm not going to tear you a new one, but there are a few points I disagree pretty strongly on. For one, we didn't win just because of Nugent. While he did kick an amazing (and distance record (in the Shoe) tying) FG, he needed what the offense did to get into position to have a shot at it. Without the passes, catches, and JZ's composure, we go to OT. I think this was definitely a team win.
The other point is defensive adjustment. If you go back and rewatch the first quarter, you can see a massive adjustment. They were moving the ball on us with those quick screens like we weren't even there in the beginning. Then we started shutting that down and they saw a number of 3 and out scenarios. Marshall is a very well coached team, and maybe their ability to adjust to our adjustments (as when they had the long running drive) makes ours harder to see. But I honestly feel our D was well coached today. Were they outcoached by Marshall? I have no idea, maybe. Where the D was disappointing was in getting pressure on Hill. We didn't threaten much, particularly as the game went on. On the other hand, Marshall was coming off a loss where that was the biggest glaring deficiency that led to the upset. They obviously focused on it all week, and that paid off today.
I definitely don't think we were outplayed either. Take away the turnovers, and this is a lopsided game. That's not us getting outplayed, that's us handing them extra opportunities and points. We clean that up, and we have the potential to win every game this season. Unlikely, but not impossible. We led in passing, and receiving. Lydell outrushed Bradshaw. Holmes caught for more yards than all the Marshall receivers combined. We only allowed one TD through the air, and one on the ground. We held Stan Hill to only 140 passing yards, despite losing our top corner who is also a team leader, and one of the (the?) most experienced players on what is otherwise a young defensive squad. As a team they outrushed us. As a team they created more turnovers, and got more pressure on our QB. But I think in this case, the positive outweighs the negative, and it seems relatively clear that we weren't outplayed. The best argument that could be made that Ross, Holmes and Zwick (x2) created opportunities that Marshall shouldn't have. So maybe we almost threw the game away, but we did outplay them IMO.
The other point is defensive adjustment. If you go back and rewatch the first quarter, you can see a massive adjustment. They were moving the ball on us with those quick screens like we weren't even there in the beginning. Then we started shutting that down and they saw a number of 3 and out scenarios. Marshall is a very well coached team, and maybe their ability to adjust to our adjustments (as when they had the long running drive) makes ours harder to see. But I honestly feel our D was well coached today. Were they outcoached by Marshall? I have no idea, maybe. Where the D was disappointing was in getting pressure on Hill. We didn't threaten much, particularly as the game went on. On the other hand, Marshall was coming off a loss where that was the biggest glaring deficiency that led to the upset. They obviously focused on it all week, and that paid off today.
I definitely don't think we were outplayed either. Take away the turnovers, and this is a lopsided game. That's not us getting outplayed, that's us handing them extra opportunities and points. We clean that up, and we have the potential to win every game this season. Unlikely, but not impossible. We led in passing, and receiving. Lydell outrushed Bradshaw. Holmes caught for more yards than all the Marshall receivers combined. We only allowed one TD through the air, and one on the ground. We held Stan Hill to only 140 passing yards, despite losing our top corner who is also a team leader, and one of the (the?) most experienced players on what is otherwise a young defensive squad. As a team they outrushed us. As a team they created more turnovers, and got more pressure on our QB. But I think in this case, the positive outweighs the negative, and it seems relatively clear that we weren't outplayed. The best argument that could be made that Ross, Holmes and Zwick (x2) created opportunities that Marshall shouldn't have. So maybe we almost threw the game away, but we did outplay them IMO.
bukIpower said:
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When you are -7 in turnovers for the season it is tough to be disappointed with 2-0 regardless of who you have played.
I thought Marshall had an outstanding game plan and was also frustrated with our inability to stop what seemed to be the same plays over and over. However, much of that I also credit to the nations best group of LBs looking like anything but.
Before the game I thought this was a sure win, but in this day of parity my confidence was based on wearing them down by the fourth quarter. I told my son I thoght we might be in trouble when there was 5:31 left in the first quarter and we had run 4 offensive plays. You can't give a Defense a quarter off and expect to wear them down. The Marshall coach even comented after the game that he wanted to get to OT because our D was tired and he thought they had the advantage.
Snyder said they were focusing on generating turnovers this week. I am not sure what that means exactly, but if it means tackling high to go for the strip or taking chances on pass plays it is not a philosphy I would embrace. Play solid, hard hitting D and let the turnovers come as they may.
I thought Marshall had an outstanding game plan and was also frustrated with our inability to stop what seemed to be the same plays over and over. However, much of that I also credit to the nations best group of LBs looking like anything but.
Before the game I thought this was a sure win, but in this day of parity my confidence was based on wearing them down by the fourth quarter. I told my son I thoght we might be in trouble when there was 5:31 left in the first quarter and we had run 4 offensive plays. You can't give a Defense a quarter off and expect to wear them down. The Marshall coach even comented after the game that he wanted to get to OT because our D was tired and he thought they had the advantage.
Snyder said they were focusing on generating turnovers this week. I am not sure what that means exactly, but if it means tackling high to go for the strip or taking chances on pass plays it is not a philosphy I would embrace. Play solid, hard hitting D and let the turnovers come as they may.
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bukIpower
Head Coach
Agree/Disagree
I agree with you in saying Zwick and Holmes did contribute to the win..... but what did they do in the second half? When the game was tied they shut down our offense down and thats where I'm saying nugent bailed us out. As for the adjustments, yeah I noticed we did start to crack down a BIT on the screens and such but come on man? Did you not feel in the second half that they had the ball the whole time, because our defense couldn't stop them and our offense couldn't really sustain a drive? You have to admitt in the second half we were out played. As much as it pains me to say that but we were IMO. Also yeah our defensive line did play bad and thats why I stated maybe a 3-4 wouldn't be such a bad Idea? Trust me there were some good things in our defense such as Mike D'Andrea getting I think 3 sacks and Bobby Carpenter flying around again, but I thought our corners didn't play well (even with fox), and our Line didn't help out our secondary in creating a pass rush. We have ALOT of improvement to do if we wanna be the standard on Defense like I know we can be. Yeah also stated "Oh8ch" I can't believe we didn't create any turnovers. Also he realizes that they did infact run the same plays over and over. If our Db's play bumb coverage sometime this season I'll be a very happy man! Also as stated a "W" is a "W" and I'm happy for it.
I agree with you in saying Zwick and Holmes did contribute to the win..... but what did they do in the second half? When the game was tied they shut down our offense down and thats where I'm saying nugent bailed us out. As for the adjustments, yeah I noticed we did start to crack down a BIT on the screens and such but come on man? Did you not feel in the second half that they had the ball the whole time, because our defense couldn't stop them and our offense couldn't really sustain a drive? You have to admitt in the second half we were out played. As much as it pains me to say that but we were IMO. Also yeah our defensive line did play bad and thats why I stated maybe a 3-4 wouldn't be such a bad Idea? Trust me there were some good things in our defense such as Mike D'Andrea getting I think 3 sacks and Bobby Carpenter flying around again, but I thought our corners didn't play well (even with fox), and our Line didn't help out our secondary in creating a pass rush. We have ALOT of improvement to do if we wanna be the standard on Defense like I know we can be. Yeah also stated "Oh8ch" I can't believe we didn't create any turnovers. Also he realizes that they did infact run the same plays over and over. If our Db's play bumb coverage sometime this season I'll be a very happy man! Also as stated a "W" is a "W" and I'm happy for it.
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97 yards at a 3.8 YPC clip is not all that bad - and they WERE stacked up in the box. But you can't get down on Lydell without getting down on the coaches as he was the ONLY RB to get a touch today. Zero for Hall, zero for Parker, zero for Pittman, and zero for Haw (sure starting to look like a redshirt year to me).
Still, I had to chuckle at the Marshall Coach's comment after the game when he said something to the effect that "They didn't run the ball against us.... I don't know if they can run the ball." He is a character if you have never heard him.
What disappoints me on O is our lack of imagination. It seems to be the old Woody Hayes philosophy of lining up and going off tackle to show them how much better you are. Parity is for real and the difference simply isn't that great anymore. Why can't we run a draw or go outside now and then? Why can't we confuse their LBs once in awhile?
Still, I had to chuckle at the Marshall Coach's comment after the game when he said something to the effect that "They didn't run the ball against us.... I don't know if they can run the ball." He is a character if you have never heard him.
What disappoints me on O is our lack of imagination. It seems to be the old Woody Hayes philosophy of lining up and going off tackle to show them how much better you are. Parity is for real and the difference simply isn't that great anymore. Why can't we run a draw or go outside now and then? Why can't we confuse their LBs once in awhile?
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BuckeyeInTheBoro
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Huh?LordJeffBuck said:
All I was saying is they weren't completeing long or even mid-range passes on Fox. That short crap they threw was practically a long hand-off so I would hope he had a high completion percentage, but it says nothing of Fox's performance pro or con.
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I think their performance today sucked. They were superior in every way to Marshall, size, speed, ability. And yet, the O-line made yet another team look like the '75 Steelers. San Diego St, Cincinnati, Marshall, they should have been beaten by more that the 3-4-5 pts they were by this team. But, they are young and hopefully are learning.
Tress' game of don't-make-mistakes-yourself-and-take-advantage-of-your-oppnents-mistakes is only good if you don't make any and they do. Today, OSU made a ton of mistakes and Marshall made few. Almost cost them.
Almost.
Tress' game of don't-make-mistakes-yourself-and-take-advantage-of-your-oppnents-mistakes is only good if you don't make any and they do. Today, OSU made a ton of mistakes and Marshall made few. Almost cost them.
Almost.
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SanClementeBuck
Heisman
A fortunate win over a charged up Herd team that had been waiting all year to play the Bucks. Take away our TO's and it's a different game. TO's are very troubling. If we see the same ratio next week, I can guarentee that NCSt will win that ball game.
Veteran Marshall ran on our D a bit too much.
Marshall had the ball more minutes than the Bucks.
Fox out for several weeks is not good.
A few floaters or inaccurate passes took away from Zwick's effectiveness again this week. Nuge pulled our Buckeyes out of the fire.
OTT, I'm happy we won.
Veteran Marshall ran on our D a bit too much.
Marshall had the ball more minutes than the Bucks.
Fox out for several weeks is not good.
A few floaters or inaccurate passes took away from Zwick's effectiveness again this week. Nuge pulled our Buckeyes out of the fire.
OTT, I'm happy we won.
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The problem with football is you face opponents who want to win as badly as you do. The problem with OSU football is you often face opponents who want to win even more.
I saw our running game open up a bit more in the second half. I saw us move the ball when and as we needed to. Sure, they put together a few good drives, but they didn't do much with them. Between the 20s, a lot of teams look like they're controlling the field, but it's a lot harder once they get into the red zone.
I don't think we were outplayed in the second half, no. I think we turned the ball over 3 times, and should have had our offense on the field a lot more. I'll give Marshall credit for really creating one of those TOs, and I'll give us credit for the other 2.
Yes, of course we need to improve. And of course we will. Young team, and this is only the second game of the season. Marshall is a very well coached team, and this was an ideal test going into the NCSU game.
Still don't think Nugent deserves "savior of the game" status, not all by himself anyway. I'm not taking anything away from him, because I think he's one of the best kickers (in a lot of ways) that I've watched on any level. But a lot needed to happen for him to take that kick. Our defense had to hold. Our coaches had to decide to try and conserve time to take a shot. We had to pressure their otherwise solid K/P into shanking one for a short field. The offense had to move the ball quickly and efficiently. Zwick needed to take that penalty to give us a chance. All I'm saying is that everything contributed in this game. Zwick hitting Holmes perfectly in stride for the 80y TD, Zwick to Holmes again, Zwick to Hall. Lydell's running in the second half. The OL's protection. Holmes getting out of bounds on the final drive, Hamby's catch. Nugent's HUGE kick. The defensive adjustments, the broken passes, etc. Likewise, our turnovers contributed, as did our frustrating inability to put more pressure on their QB, etc. etc.
This was only the second game of the season. There's plenty of time to improve. Are we a lock next week? Lol, hell no. We can't turn the ball over the way we did today. We need to get more pressure on their QB. We need to do a better job of run stopping. We need to get our own running game more established in the early going. There are a lot of things we need to do, and every reason to believe that we'll get those things done, and earn another W next week. May not be pretty, but pretty takes a back seat to the end result.
I personally see a team that can be great later this year. Really great. And one that can be deadly next year and the year after. I see a QB who seems to be experience and some confidence in his role away from being a potential great. I see a young defense that is coming together despite losing a lot of NFL-level talent.
I don't know, maybe I'm just an over-positive cheerleader (I don't really think so, because I do recognize and discuss what needs to be fixed), but I am in no way disappointed with this game. I'd have been disappointed had we lost.
scUM fans should be disappointed right now. We should be relieved, and cautiously optimistic.
I'm not pointing at anyone specific here at all, but I actually wonder these days if games like NCAA 2005 aren't skewing fan perspective. Lol, it's easy in there to go in and play a perfect game against a computer chip. It's quite a bit harder against a real life opponent on the field who is willing to all but kill themselves to try and upset you. Cinci and Marshall? Beating us would make their season. We saw their best, gave them merely an above average performance overall, and still got the win despite handing them the ball 4 times.
I saw our running game open up a bit more in the second half. I saw us move the ball when and as we needed to. Sure, they put together a few good drives, but they didn't do much with them. Between the 20s, a lot of teams look like they're controlling the field, but it's a lot harder once they get into the red zone.
I don't think we were outplayed in the second half, no. I think we turned the ball over 3 times, and should have had our offense on the field a lot more. I'll give Marshall credit for really creating one of those TOs, and I'll give us credit for the other 2.
Yes, of course we need to improve. And of course we will. Young team, and this is only the second game of the season. Marshall is a very well coached team, and this was an ideal test going into the NCSU game.
Still don't think Nugent deserves "savior of the game" status, not all by himself anyway. I'm not taking anything away from him, because I think he's one of the best kickers (in a lot of ways) that I've watched on any level. But a lot needed to happen for him to take that kick. Our defense had to hold. Our coaches had to decide to try and conserve time to take a shot. We had to pressure their otherwise solid K/P into shanking one for a short field. The offense had to move the ball quickly and efficiently. Zwick needed to take that penalty to give us a chance. All I'm saying is that everything contributed in this game. Zwick hitting Holmes perfectly in stride for the 80y TD, Zwick to Holmes again, Zwick to Hall. Lydell's running in the second half. The OL's protection. Holmes getting out of bounds on the final drive, Hamby's catch. Nugent's HUGE kick. The defensive adjustments, the broken passes, etc. Likewise, our turnovers contributed, as did our frustrating inability to put more pressure on their QB, etc. etc.
This was only the second game of the season. There's plenty of time to improve. Are we a lock next week? Lol, hell no. We can't turn the ball over the way we did today. We need to get more pressure on their QB. We need to do a better job of run stopping. We need to get our own running game more established in the early going. There are a lot of things we need to do, and every reason to believe that we'll get those things done, and earn another W next week. May not be pretty, but pretty takes a back seat to the end result.
I personally see a team that can be great later this year. Really great. And one that can be deadly next year and the year after. I see a QB who seems to be experience and some confidence in his role away from being a potential great. I see a young defense that is coming together despite losing a lot of NFL-level talent.
I don't know, maybe I'm just an over-positive cheerleader (I don't really think so, because I do recognize and discuss what needs to be fixed), but I am in no way disappointed with this game. I'd have been disappointed had we lost.
scUM fans should be disappointed right now. We should be relieved, and cautiously optimistic.
I'm not pointing at anyone specific here at all, but I actually wonder these days if games like NCAA 2005 aren't skewing fan perspective. Lol, it's easy in there to go in and play a perfect game against a computer chip. It's quite a bit harder against a real life opponent on the field who is willing to all but kill themselves to try and upset you. Cinci and Marshall? Beating us would make their season. We saw their best, gave them merely an above average performance overall, and still got the win despite handing them the ball 4 times.
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