OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[PlanetFrnd]

Have you listened to an entire Rev Wright sermon or read a book by James Cone? Have you even bothered to research liberation theology or anyone who subscribes to that view? Inflammatory rhetoric aside, do you agree that their is validity in a theology that sees God as siding with those who are victimized and marginalized in society and asking them to rely upon themselves and Him to overcome their circumstances?

Let me help you:

A Black Theology of Liberation

Now remember that Wright is an "old school" black liberation theologist and the theology continues to modernize although most claim their roots with Cone who started the movement in 1968. Whatever the flavor, it is not wallowing in victimhood, but a call to action to transform the world so that it is free of victims.

Great post, MuckFich - I didn?t want to clog up the Obama thread anymore, but below are some good resources for those interested. I have some misgivings about the link you provided ? mainly that it?s just not a great lecture, and tends to be tangential at times, but the point is correct, and the references to Cone are accurate. Your point, ?asking [marginalized peoples] to rely upon themselves?? is the most important part, and some context would be helpful.

Remember that Black Liberation Theology was borne of a time at the tail end of the Civil Rights Movement when many changes had occurred, but there were still a great many perceived injustices ? that and progressive leaders were being assassinated. The theology that was developed was a change from the popular messages of many black churches that things would get better, but not until heaven (simply put). What Cone asserted was that the Bible itself was the perfect example of resistance to oppression and an even better example of leadership for change. Jesus Christ, according to Cone, was a great example of someone who was for Liberation, both of oppressed people and of one?s own soul. Black Liberation Theology is rooted in self-reliance that is itself rooted in the Biblical example. Black Liberation Theology relates the Biblical example of Jesus Christ (or, equally important, the ancient Hebrews) to modern (1968) times by relating Jesus? leadership against poverty, oppression, an entrenched leadership to the modern struggles of racism, poverty, etc. Many consider(ed) this to be radical because it inspires action rather than acceptance, but most of that action is harnessed into community action and church groups ? or more scholarship on the same topic.

At its core, Black Liberation Theology is not that contraversial - it mainly tells people to follow the leadership of Jesus Christ's example and to do something for themselves. The theology is only as radical as Jesus was.

A Black Theology of Liberation (Ethics and Society) by James H. Cone

A Theology of Liberation: History, Politics and Salvation by Gustavo Gutierrez

A great resource that the same types of notions to the plight of Central Americans, etc.

And for the more daring:

Is God a White Racist? by William R. Jones​

The title is obviously shocking (as intended), but the book surmises that if God is benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient than the outright subordination (and worse) of Christian blacks implies that God must not like black people (hence the title)? this book combines both Black Liberation Theology and the theological/philosophical problem of evil. It?s a good read.

 

[MaxBuck]

Happy Easter everyone! The Lord is risen indeed! Alleluia!

 

[CCI]

Happy Easter everyone! The Lord is risen indeed! Alleluia!

Amen to that, Our God Reigns

 

[Tlangs]

It ain't easter yet for me. Still a month away.

Lent renewal time for Orthodox faith : Spirituality : Times Record News

 

[buckeyegrad]

It ain't easter yet for me. Still a month away.

Lent renewal time for Orthodox faith : Spirituality : Times Record News

Same here, but we (i.e. Messianic Jews) have another date. Begins evening of April 19 (i.e Passover, to be followed by the feasts of Unleaven Bread and First Fruits).

Is the 27th determined as the Eastern Orthodox Easter by when First Fruits falls as calculated by the Sanhedrin in Jesus' day?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Same here, but we (i.e. Messianic Jews) have another date. Begins evening of April 19 (i.e Passover, to be followed by the feasts of Unleaven Bread and First Fruits).

Good thing the spring game is at 1:30

 

[Tlangs]

Same here, but we (i.e. Messianic Jews) have another date. Begins evening of April 19 (i.e Passover, to be followed by the feasts of Unleaven Bread and First Fruits).

Is the 27th determined as the Eastern Orthodox Easter by when First Fruits falls as calculated by the Sanhedrin in Jesus' day?

That is my understanding. Easter is on the Sunday following the so-called Paschal Full Moon.

Notes on the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Calendar

I converted to Coptic Orthodox in 1997. My entire family follows the traditional easter which makes it tough when you are supposed to be fasting and the rest of your family is having Easter dinner with Ham, Roast Beef, Turkey, and all the fixins. Not to mention all the chocolate eggs. On a side note, it is nice because all the Easter and Christmas candy are marked down to half price by the time I actually buy them.

 

[buckeyegrad]

My entire family follows the traditional easter which makes it tough when you are supposed to be fasting and the rest of your family is having Easter dinner with Ham, Roast Beef, Turkey, and all the fixins. Not to mention all the chocolate eggs. On a side note, it is nice because all the Easter and Christmas candy are marked down to half price by the time I actually buy them.

I know what you meant, but I do find it funny/ironic that you called the West's celebration of Easter as "traditional", as the East's is actually older and more in-line with the actual time of the events as the day of observation remains tied to when Passover and First Fruits fall.

 

[muffler dragon]

That is my understanding. Easter is on the Sunday following the so-called Paschal Full Moon.

Notes on the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Calendar

I converted to Coptic Orthodox in 1997. My entire family follows the traditional easter which makes it tough when you are supposed to be fasting and the rest of your family is having Easter dinner with Ham, Roast Beef, Turkey, and all the fixins. Not to mention all the chocolate eggs. On a side note, it is nice because all the Easter and Christmas candy are marked down to half price by the time I actually buy them.

Two things that I have found interesting regarding the Orthodox dogma is:

1) There is no belief in Original Sin.
2) There is no belief in vicarious atonement upon the cross.

(At least, this is how I have understood the points that people have talked with me about)

If the two above are correct, then may I ask how the Passover crucifixion impacts you?

 

[Tlangs]

I know what you meant, but I do find it funny/ironic that you called the West's celebration of Easter as "traditional", as the East's is actually older and more in-line with the actual time of the events as the day of observation remains tied to when Passover and First Fruits fall.

Right after I posted that message I noticed that as well. I guess society has distorted my views so now I consider "American Culture" traditional (ie. when the easter bunny brings me candy).

 

[AKAK]

This reminds me of the time one of my neices got a present from her Dad's Aunt...

It was a cute little talking animatronic (sp?) easter bunny with glasses that reads from a bible and tells you the "True story of Easter"-- and how Easter is really about Jesus dying for our sins... not about other things... like... well Easter Bunnies.

Apparently the "aunt" who bought this had to get a rain check to get one as they couldn't keep them in stock at the Wal Mart in WVa she frequents.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussions.

Guess who came out on Sunday?

That's right... "True story of Easter Bunny"

 

[Tlangs]

Two things that I have found interesting regarding the Orthodox dogma is:

1) There is no belief in Original Sin.
2) There is no belief in vicarious atonement upon the cross.

(At least, this is how I have understood the points that people have talked with me about)

If the two above are correct, then may I ask how the Passover crucifixion impacts you?

I am by no means an expert on Orthodox Dogma but here is my understanding:

1)It isn't that we don't beleive in original sin but just a have a different view of it. Orthodoxy believes that while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is physical death (in this world), only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Overall, we see sin as a sickness to be healed, not a crime to be punished.

2) please explain what you mean by vicarious atonement.

 

[muffler dragon]

Guess who came out on Sunday?

That's right... "True story of Easter Bunny"

My jealousy knows no bounds. :tongue2:

 

[muffler dragon]

I am by no means an expert on Orthodox Dogma but here is my understanding:

1)It isn't that we don't beleive in original sin but just a have a different view of it. Orthodoxy believes that while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is physical death (in this world), only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Overall, we see sin as a sickness to be healed, not a crime to be punished.

Thanks for the clarification.

2) please explain what you mean by vicarious atonement.

Vicarious means substitutionary. Thus, it is my understanding that EO/GO does not consider the crucifixion as a substitionary sacrifice on the part of the populace of Christians. Instead, it's an act of sacrifice for another and one to be emulated (figuratively). At least, that's what I've been told before. I'm sure this can differ widely amongst the differing sects within EO/GO.

 

[muffler dragon]

Tlangs:

In light of the Original Sin consideration, I wanted to ask, "Is sexual intercourse considered "bad" in Orthodox?"