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OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

muffler dragon;1123653; said:
Tlangs:

In light of the Original Sin consideration, I wanted to ask, "Is sexual intercourse considered "bad" in Orthodox?"

It isn't considered bad, however, you are supposed to abstain during the various fasts (210 days of the year for Coptic Orthodox) and before you receive communion. Fasting is basically an exercise in self-denial and Christian obedience that tries to rid the believer of his or her passions (what most modern people would call "addictions") to bring them closer to God. ie food, television or other entertainments, sex, or any kind of self-absorbed pleasure-seeking are seen as some of the most significant obstacles for man seeking closeness to God.



......oh and you are supposed to married as well.
 
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muffler dragon;1123652; said:
Thanks for the clarification. :wink:



Vicarious means substitutionary. Thus, it is my understanding that EO/GO does not consider the crucifixion as a substitionary sacrifice on the part of the populace of Christians. Instead, it's an act of sacrifice for another and one to be emulated (figuratively). At least, that's what I've been told before. I'm sure this can differ widely amongst the differing sects within EO/GO.


I have never really been part of a discussion on how the Copts view the crucifixion compared to other religions. I will definitely seek some information on this. It would definitely be an interesting discussion. I have always beleived it to be vicarious as you described above...but of course I was brought up a Protestant. Maybe i need to figure out what the heck I converted to :wink2:

Although, what I have found when asking these sorts of question in the past is that people that have been lifelong Copts, don't really have the in depth knowledge of how other religions view things. They were raised as Coptic Orthodox from birth in Egypt and then immigrated to the US without much exposure to anything else.
 
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Tlangs;1123673; said:
It isn't considered bad, however, you are supposed to abstain during the various fasts (210 days of the year for Coptic Orthodox) and before you receive communion. Fasting is basically an exercise in self-denial and Christian obedience that tries to rid the believer of his or her passions (what most modern people would call "addictions") to bring them closer to God. ie food, television or other entertainments, sex, or any kind of self-absorbed pleasure-seeking are seen as some of the most significant obstacles for man seeking closeness to God.

I understand this POV. There are some things that can be gleaned from the Christian Scriptures and from denominations that would tend to show sexual intercourse as a "necessary evil" of sorts.

The negative connotations, IMO, come from the root cause of the Original Sin supposedly being transferred from generation to generation.

This needn't be a topic that goes on and on. I was just sharing why I asked.

Tlangs said:
......oh and you are supposed to married as well.

Of course. :wink:

Tlangs;1124004; said:
I have never really been part of a discussion on how the Copts view the crucifixion compared to other religions. I will definitely seek some information on this. It would definitely be an interesting discussion. I have always beleived it to be vicarious as you described above...but of course I was brought up a Protestant. Maybe i need to figure out what the heck I converted to :wink2:

LOL! I, too, was raised in a Protestant household, and held the same belief regarding the cross. I've not delved too much into Coptic Orthodoxy. I'm sure there are some differences between it and EO/GO; thus, I apologize for lumping them together.

Tlangs said:
Although, what I have found when asking these sorts of question in the past is that people that have been lifelong Copts, don't really have the in depth knowledge of how other religions view things. They were raised as Coptic Orthodox from birth in Egypt and then immigrated to the US without much exposure to anything else.

I've definitely not found the Copts to be the predominant portion of Orthodox; therefore, I would imagine that it's more inwardly familial.

Tlangs said:
I am by no means an Orthodox expert. I converted because it was the only way i would be able to marry my current wife. At the time I was 20 and I figured..."heck what's the difference between Orthodox and Protestant". I attended services with her family and met one on one with the Priest on many occasions over a two year period. i can honestly say that i didn't take it as seriously back then as I needed to.

Yes. The ways of our youth can sometimes spur consternation at a later date. :biggrin:

I would imagine that this conversion has worked out for the best in your life though.

Tlangs said:
Only within the last few years have a taken a deeper interst in learning more about orthodoxy. I go to church on Sunday's with my family as much as possible. I serve as a deacon. I listen to the sermons and try my best to mold my life by them. I attend several Church functions a month (outside of Liturgies) and generally try keep my family involved. If I told you that I fasted 210 days out of the year i would be lying. I can tell you that I give an effort and that is what is important. When it comes down to the in depth knowledge, that is something that I can definitely improve on.

I must state openly that my questions/interaction with you are by no means meant to be an interrogation/judgment/anything of a negative connotation. I simply asked because I recall a difference between Orthodox and RCC/Protestant Christianity.

I applaud you in your dedication to your belief system.

As an interest for later, I wanted to pose an inquiry for you to look into IF you have the interest regarding the Pasha and capital punishment. Have you ever looked into the Jewish regulations regarding capital punishments and high holy days?
 
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muffler dragon;1124271; said:
If I'm not mistaken, the major religions all make commendations for people with medical ailments during things of this sort.

The only time I've read of something otherwise would be with the "name it/claim it" crew.




There are definitely commendations for medical ailments.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;1124237; said:
fasting 210 days a year... not for the diabetic.

Just a story I would like to share that might be an ecouragement to you or others:

Four years ago at my church there was an 82 year old woman who is diabetic that believed God had told her to fast for 40 days. Needless to say her doctor (who is a Christian), husband, and children all thought she was crazy and they were very upset when our rabbi did not advise against doing it as he knew her to be a very devout woman, filled with the Holy Spirit, who had a good discernment of God's voice. Anyway, she did the 40 day fast and never had one problem arise with her diabetes or anything else. In fact, after she ended the fast and went to her doctor he was amazed to find her in better health than when she began the fast. Of course, this story is not say that anyone who decides to fast will be sustained as she was, but that there are instances when it can occur if it be the Will of God.
 
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Just a story I would like to share that might be an ecouragement to you or others:

Four years ago at my church there was an 82 year old woman who is diabetic that believed God had told her to fast for 40 days. Needless to say her doctor (who is a Christian), husband, and children all thought she was crazy and they were very upset when our rabbi did not advise against doing it as he knew her to be a very devout woman, filled with the Holy Spirit, who had a good discernment of God's voice. Anyway, she did the 40 day fast and never had one problem arise with her diabetes or anything else. In fact, after she ended the fast and went to her doctor he was amazed to find her in better health than when she began the fast. Of course, this story is not say that anyone who decides to fast will be sustained as she was, but that there are instances when it can occur if it be the Will of God.
God has not thusly spoken to me. Anyway I think there might be a reason for my becoming diabetic ( I found out 2 months ago and I'm 25, 5'7, 180 at the time). I've really discovered recently that I've not let Jesus be Lord of that part of my life. So if it takes diabetes to make me submit so be it. I have no problem with the idea that God may heal me at any time of His choosing on this earth or that He'll heal me when He gives me a glorified body. I have no problem with the idea that God may require an act of faith on my part. I also believe that he may choose to heal me (here) without said act. Either way I know that my ailment is only temporary.

Edit: I thought I would mention that Dwight may be favorite avatar on this sight.
 
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buckeyegrad;1124385; said:
Just a story I would like to share that might be an ecouragement to you or others:

Four years ago at my church there was an 82 year old woman who is diabetic that believed God had told her to fast for 40 days. Needless to say her doctor (who is a Christian), husband, and children all thought she was crazy and they were very upset when our rabbi did not advise against doing it as he knew her to be a very devout woman, filled with the Holy Spirit, who had a good discernment of God's voice. Anyway, she did the 40 day fast and never had one problem arise with her diabetes or anything else. In fact, after she ended the fast and went to her doctor he was amazed to find her in better health than when she began the fast. Of course, this story is not say that anyone who decides to fast will be sustained as she was, but that there are instances when it can occur if it be the Will of God.


Many of the Coptic Priests and Bishops are diabetic and are still able to maintain the fasts. In fact so many of them seem to be diabetic that one could infer that the diabetes is diet induced. I beleive that it is a test of ones faith.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;1124413; said:
God has not thusly spoken to me. Anyway I think there might be a reason for my becoming diabetic ( I found out 2 months ago and I'm 25, 5'7, 180 at the time). I've really discovered recently that I've not let Jesus be Lord of that part of my life. So if it takes diabetes to make me submit so be it. I have no problem with the idea that God may heal me at any time of His choosing on this earth or that He'll heal me when He gives me a glorified body. I have no problem with the idea that God may require an act of faith on my part. I also believe that he may choose to heal me (here) without said act. Either way I know that my ailment is only temporary.

Amen! He is sovereign and He is holy! May we all find peace and assurance in this truth!
 
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buckeyegrad;1124385; said:
Just a story I would like to share that might be an encouragement to you or others:

Four years ago at my church there was an 82 year old woman who is diabetic that believed God had told her to fast for 40 days. Needless to say her doctor (who is a Christian), husband, and children all thought she was crazy and they were very upset when our rabbi did not advise against doing it as he knew her to be a very devout woman, filled with the Holy Spirit, who had a good discernment of God's voice. Anyway, she did the 40 day fast and never had one problem arise with her diabetes or anything else. In fact, after she ended the fast and went to her doctor he was amazed to find her in better health than when she began the fast. Of course, this story is not say that anyone who decides to fast will be sustained as she was, but that there are instances when it can occur if it be the Will of God.
Or the weight loss might have made her diabetes better, as it usually does.

Just as I doubt that God wanted to punish New Orleans because of Bourbon Street debauchery, and that is why we were devastated, I look with skepticism at many connect the dots that link man's decisions to God's will. If you moved out of New Orleans the week before the storm, it may have been God's will, but then it might have just been the better job offer.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, and it is a given that God could be working in the healing, but it is - to me - somewhat presumptuous for man to discern what is Divine intervention and what is not. I mean, the Pilgrims believed it was God working wonders for them that the local Native American population was devastated by disease right before their arrival, so that their stealing grain from the nearby depopulated village was actually Providence.

We can hope for the best, and desire God's blessings, but for us to have any clue what his will might be is beyond me.
 
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Speaking of punishment, retribution, the wrath of God and all that... I love the new avatar. It's right on point. Looks like those in hot pursuit of Urban finally caught up to him, eh? :biggrin:

imagecn3.gif
 
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Gatorubet;1124536; said:
We can hope for the best, and desire God's blessings, but for us to have any clue what is his will might be is beyond me.

For those who do not know Him and cannot call God their friend, I understand why such a perspective is held. However, if this is the case, then your argument does not hold up. The perspective that says God's Will was not present is just as presumptous as the one saying it was present if in fact no one really can know what His Will is. Likewise, it is just as incorrect to say that God was judging New Orleans with Katrina as it is to say He was not judging New Orleans. If you do not know Him, and by consequence do not know His Will, then no legitimate claim can be really made against those who do because there is no position by which to make such judgements.
 
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Or the weight loss might have made her diabetes better, as it usually does.

Just as I doubt that God wanted to punish New Orleans because of Bourbon Street debauchery, and that is why we were devastated, I look with skepticism at many connect the dots that link man's decisions to God's will. If you moved out of New Orleans the week before the storm, it may have been God's will, but then it might have just been the better job offer.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, and it is a given that God could be working in the healing, but it is - to me - somewhat presumptuous for man to discern what is Divine intervention and what is not. I mean, the Pilgrims believed it was God working wonders for them that the local Native American population was devastated by disease right before their arrival, so that their stealing grain from the nearby depopulated village was actually Providence.

We can hope for the best, and desire God's blessings, but for us to have any clue what is his will might be is beyond me.
I'm afraid it's not that simple on the diabetes part. Weight loss does not = cure. I'm not obese by any means, though I have lost about 8 -10 pounds since I found out because of diet and exercise. I'm taking oral medication along with a modified diet and struggling to keep my blood sugar at acceptable levels. I'd say at most I would need to lose about 10 more pounds to be really where I want to be. Also if you fast 40 days the body starts eating itself including the muscles. Muscles are required to burn sugar.
 
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buckeyegrad;1124581; said:
For those who do not know Him and cannot call God their friend, I understand why such a perspective is held. However, if this is the case, then your argument does not hold up. The perspective that says God's Will was not present is just as presumptous as the one saying it was present if in fact no one really can know what His Will is. Likewise, it is just as incorrect to say that God was judging New Orleans with Katrina as it is to say he was not judging New Orleans. If you do not know Him, and by consequence do not know His Will, then no legitimate claim can be really made against those who do because there is no position by which to make such judgements.

Been trying to stay out of this one, but I think it emphasizes Gator's point when you hear people say stuff like "For those who do not know Him and cannot call God their friend, I understand why such a perspective is held." It assumes that you and only you (or likeminded folks) are the only one's who know G-d or His will.

People are free to believe that whatever is G-d's will.... but don't tell me I can't see it. It's insulting.
 
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