stowfan;1093399; said:
Again using the NASB, I think these verses apply better than Gen 4; Lev 17:11
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I utilized Genesis 4 to show two things:
1) That from the very beginning G-d set forth a process of sin => repentance => forgiveness. This is established for all people.
2) Genesis 4 has two components noticeably missing from the argument you're attempting to make: a sacrifice and a mediator.
Thus, from well before the institution of atonement via blood sacrifice, we see that G-d provides forgiveness for sins from a person's repentance. This is consistent throughout the entire Tanakh. Furthermore, there is not just one way of gaining forgiveness, but instead, many.
Now, for the "sin offering" v. "the crucifixion".
Sin Offering Taken from Leviticus 4. Note that this particular passage deals with the laypeople.
Leviticus 4
27. If one person of the people of the land commits a sin
unintentionally, by his committing one of the commandments of the Lord which may not be committed, incurring guilt;
28. if his sin that he committed is
made known to him, he shall bring his sacrifice: an
unblemished female goat, for his sin that he committed.
29. And
he shall lean his hand [forcefully] on the head of the sin offering, and
he shall slaughter the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.
30. And the
kohen shall take some of its blood with his finger, and place [it] on the horns of the altar [used] for burnt offerings. And then he shall pour all of its [remaining] blood at the base of the altar.
31. And he shall remove all of its fat, just as the fat was removed from the peace offering.
The kohen shall then cause it to [go up in] smoke on the altar, as a pleasing fragrance to the Lord. Thus the kohen shall make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven.
Key Points:
1) This takes place within the Temple walls.
2) This is for UNINTENTIONAL sins.
3) After the sin is "made known" to the sinner, he then brings an "unblemished female goat".
4) The sinner places his hands on the goat.
5) The sinner slaughters the goat.
6) The kohen (priest) sprinkles the blood on the altar.
7) The kohen burns the fat on the altar.
Taking the above and rendering them upon the crucifixion:
1) It took place outside of the Temple walls.
2) The crucifixion is supposedly for both INTENTIONAL & UNINTENTIONAL sins.
3a) No sinners brought Jesus to the cross as according to the Christian testament, he went on his own. 3b) Jesus is NOT an animal. 3c) Jesus was not unblemished as he was supposedly beaten. 3d) Jesus was not perfect according to the observance of Torah either, thus the spiritualizing is moot.
4) No sinners placed their hands upon Jesus.
5) No sinners slaughtered Jesus according to Jewish tradition guidelines.
6) Jesus' blood was not sprinkled on the altar.
7) Jesus' fat was not burned upon the altar.
My challenge for you, stowfan, is this:
Can you substantiate the idea that the crucifixion WAS a sin offering in any way, shape or form OTHER THAN METAPHORICAL/ALLEGORICAL?
As an addendum, I ask in advance that you please refrain from any consideration of the Passover should it come to mind. The Passover is NOT a sin offering.