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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

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IrishCalves said:
You can nit pick, look at it from a million different angles, and use revisionist history if you want. The results that matter most don't lie: 10 wins are still 10 wins. A BCS birth is still a BCS birth. Your team has to do something good to get there - and considering they won 11 games in the previous two years, thats a pretty substantial accomplishment.

To say going into the year, "Yep, even though this squad has piddled their pants two years running, and is bringing in a new coaching staff, they're a BCS contender!" would be ludicrous. But they did get there, and exceeded expectations in doing so.

I know that everyone got really turned off by the post 05 deification of Charlie. It was over the top, no question. But results are results, and that team - Weis included - did do well. Not in the league of Pete Carrol, or Tressel, but he's done well and could reach that upper echelon if he continues to reverse the downward trends of the previous two coaching regimes.

I'm not saying this year will repeat exceeding expectations once again, but its hard to completely discredit a team when their head coach has proven he can coach at the pros and in college. 3 Super Bowl rings as an offensive coordinator, and in two years producing back-to-back BCS games are pretty good indicators that this guy knows what he's doing when it comes to football.
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no, that logic only works for teams who don't get special presents for not being god awful. ND doesn't fit under that category.
 
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IrishCalves;862951; said:
You can nit pick, look at it from a million different angles, and use revisionist history if you want. The results that matter most don't lie: 10 wins are still 10 wins. A BCS birth is still a BCS birth. Your team has to do something good to get there - and considering they won 11 games in the previous two years, thats a pretty substantial accomplishment.
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I think both BCS bowls showed how worthy they were of said accomplishments.
 
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IrishCalves;862951; said:
A BCS birth is still a BCS birth. Your team has to do something good to get there - and considering they won 11 games in the previous two years, thats a pretty substantial accomplishment.
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Not necessarily. Please see: # of ranked teams defeated in 2005 and 2006.
 
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10 wins are still 10 wins. A BCS birth is still a BCS birth.
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When 10 wins isn't enough for those not named Notre Dame:
Virginia Tech 10-2
TCU 10-1
LSU 10-2
Oregon - 10-1
Alabama 10-2
UCLA 10-2
Wisconsin 10-3

All of whom almost assuredly (without looking it up) had more difficult games than the domers. hmmmm.....maybe not all 10 win seasons are created equally when media love fests are involved.
 
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IrishCalves;862951; said:
You can nit pick, look at it from a million different angles, and use revisionist history if you want.
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There is absolutely nothing nit-picking, nor revisionist, about my statement that it took till November 12th for the Irish to go over .500 at home in 2005 - that is simply stating a fact borne out by the record.
That statistical data point sticks in my mind as it was so often stated on the day of that game by those ND fans (and alumni) that I wrote about in the related thread on this site. They were finding it very ironic that Weis was being lauded already as a genius, had in hand the multi-year extension, yet still did not have a winning reord at home.

Being as irony is something I like, that stuck in my mind.
 
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Prefacing comment: sandgk, I should have used "or" instead of "and" when I referred to revisionist history. The "revisionist history" comment was mostly directed at how we can look back and see that the schedule they faced wasn't as much a gauntlet as first thought - even though my point was at first about exceeding original expectations. I'll admit I oopsed.

I've come to the realization that there is virtually zero chance of convincing a Buckeye board about the successes of Notre Dame. Wasn't even trying to shock everyone, and say the typical ND drunk on the kool-aid comments about how "We'll be in the title hunt by 2008, Weis is a GOD and Jimmy Clausen this 'n that...", but I can see that what I've said has been jumped all over. :biggrin:

The basic message I've been trying to convey is that ND was in the crapper (honestly, if you guys want some laughs I can give you a pretty hilarious breakdown of Willingham's recruiting), and most people thought ND would stay there for a while. And since Weis has come on board, they've done a pretty nice job of pulling themselves out of the toilet bowl.

Still definitely got a ways to go. The bowl losses speak for themselves. The media and the economic motives definitely played a roll in their BCS selections. But the football program is getting better at Notre Dame - even if its not on the scale of the magical results that completely irrational kool-aid drinkers tell you.

At the end of the day though, this is still a Buckeye board, and I'm invariably going to get dumped every time I try to present something positive about ND. I get it. If a Buckeye fan posted on an ND forum about how great the Horseshoe is, Irish fans would jump all over that poster's comments too. Its what opposing fan bases do in college football. So, I won't push the envelope and be a dreaded "flamer" that constantly fills the airwaves with Blue and Gold propaganda, maliciously inciting the restless natives.

I'm still a "guest" at another person's "house", and for the most part you guys have given me peace. I intend to honor that, by knowing my place. I'll keep you in check every once in a while with an opposing viewpoint, but I won't rain on your parade when there's no real reason to.

Now that I'm off my soapbox, I can say that there have been no blips on the ND radar about any kind of Clausen surgery outside that blogger. The blog had it's first post May 28, so there's very little to look into when it comes to a track record. Most "pundits" I've heard are skeptical about this Clausen issue. I'm pretty sure that Weis would have known about an impending season-ending elbow surgery when he made his press release about the remaining QB candidates. I don't want to completely write off the possibility of a minor procedure being done, but I'd be pretty surprised that the ND crazed media wouldn't pick up on Jimmy Clausen walking around in a sling (which he would need after arm surgery, no question), or not leaving his house for a week at a time. Guess we'll find out for sure in about a week when the players report though.

Sorry for the short novel, but I had to get it all off my chest.
 
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Chicago Sun-Times

Report: Clausen had elbow procedure

NOTRE DAME | Irish say star freshman QB will report Aug. 6

June 14, 2007
BY VAUGHN MCCLURE [email protected]

It would appear Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen wasn't completely healthy after all.

ESPN.com, citing unnamed sources, reported Wednesday that Clausen, a California high school star, recently underwent a procedure on his throwing elbow. Notre Dame would not confirm the report, but football spokesman Brian Hardin said Clausen will be ready for fall practice Aug. 6.

In March, Jim Clausen Sr. told the Sun-Times that his son had an undisclosed injury to his throwing arm and wasn't fully healthy.

Cont'd ...
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Bone spurs I believe is what was mentioned in the spring. From the way they were talking, they were going to let it go as he may have played with them at least during his senior year, perhaps not. That was information from early spring though, so I may be off. In the spring it didn't seem to be a major issue, thats why it was dropped. If the surgury is true, they must have decided it was better to take care of it now rather than play through it another season.
 
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Notwithstanding the pronouncements of his father, or Brian Hardin, I wonder if this effectively takes Clausen out of full competition for the starting QB rotation in South Bend?
Jones looks to very much have the inside track now.
 
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