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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

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ulukinatme;2341082; said:
FIFY
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LOL, riiiiight. B/c a girl gets texts from associates of the player in question b/c he touched her breast.

Give me a break. That girl got harrassed and investigate to be shut up - and it wasn't b/c she got her boob touched.



-just as an aside, grabbing anything improperly is wrong, I just don't see the level of harrassment and investigation that she got being commensurate with a boob touch.
 
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OSU_D/;2343245; said:
LOL, riiiiight. B/c a girl gets texts from associates of the player in question b/c he touched her breast.

Give me a break. That girl got harrassed and investigate to be shut up - and it wasn't b/c she got her boob touched.



-just as an aside, grabbing anything improperly is wrong, I just don't see the level of harrassment and investigation that she got being commensurate with a boob touch.
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There was no penetration, according to Seeberg?s description of the incident. She and the player were in his dorm room at Notre Dame together. She said she became uncomfortable. Then the player touched her breasts, which under Indiana law constitutes sexual battery.
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Sorry, I could be mistaken, but I've yet to see anywhere that Seeberg reported anything below the waist. If you can quote me a major, reputable publication that states otherwise I'll give you my mountains of VBucks and all the gold in Nankin. Sorry, I'm poor.
 
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ulukinatme;2343902; said:
Sorry, I could be mistaken, but I've yet to see anywhere that Seeberg reported anything below the waist. If you can quote me a major, reputable publication that states otherwise I'll give you my mountains of VBucks and all the gold in Nankin. Sorry, I'm poor.
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"He pulled down my tank top by the straps. He slipped them down my shoulders and proceeded to suck and lick my right breast while holding me down on his lap by the arms. I felt his hands start to move down towards my shorts as if he was trying to unbutton them or pull them off. I was still crying at this point and felt so scared that I couldn't move."

Sorry for the interruption, I'll let you get back to the official party line of denigrating anyone who dares to pull back the curtain on the evil at the institution you represent.
 
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Fair enough, thats the first I've seen this. Not condoning what allegedly happened, but there was still no penetration.
[EDIT] Want to clarify as mentioned that I don't condone sexual assault of any nature, I was just trying to refute OSU /D's claim that more occurred. Maybe it did, and with the loss of the girl it left more questions than answers with no resolution. I'd never want to see a guilty man go free, and likewise no one falsely convicted. Lizzy's death left no resolution and no justice if the crime occurred, the whole thing was awful no matter what because someone was lost.
 
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buckeyeintn;2344163; said:
So the official ND party line is sexual assault is fine as long as the player is not able to complete the penetration?
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Not really, I said I don't condone the allegations. It's a bad situation either way that should never happen. I do think that some actions are more reprehensible than others though. As far as the neg rep, I'd like to say that I do take sexual assault very seriously, and it has already happened to my wife and other members of her family. If you want to discuss it futher PM me, I'd rather not talk about it here.
 
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ulukinatme;2344147; said:
Fair enough, thats the first I've seen this. Not condoning what allegedly happened, but there was still no penetration.
[EDIT] Want to clarify as mentioned that I don't condone sexual assault of any nature, I was just trying to refute OSU /D's claim that more occurred. Maybe it did, and with the loss of the girl it left more questions than answers with no resolution. I'd never want to see a guilty man go free, and likewise no one falsely convicted. Lizzy's death left no resolution and no justice if the crime occurred, the whole thing was awful no matter what because someone was lost.
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See this is where we start seeing a scary parallel to the PSU situation. Their fans have gone to great lengths to try & prove that Sandusky didn't actually sodomize the kid.

What freaking difference does it make?!?!

If a man in his 60's is trying to play slap and tickle with my son in a shower or if a guy restrains my daughter while forcibly undressing her and licking her breasts I don't give a damn if actual penetration is achieved.

If sometime later I'm out and somebody tries to argue that it's not really that big of a deal because the rape wasn't perfectly consummated, the conversation is going to get real ugly, real fast.

The bottom line is that a real investigation needs to be made and the last thing an institution which holds responsibility for the individuals in question should be doing is demonizing the victim.

I know you're serving as a proxy for the ND administration & fan base in general and I apologize for that but you're the one here soo...
 
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Muck;2344545; said:
See this is where we start seeing a scary parallel to the PSU situation. Their fans have gone to great lengths to try & prove that Sandusky didn't actually sodomize the kid.

What freaking difference does it make?!?!

If a man in his 60's is trying to play slap and tickle with my son in a shower or if a guy restrains my daughter while forcibly undressing her and licking her breasts I don't give a damn if actual penetration is achieved.

If sometime later I'm out and somebody tries to argue that it's not really that big of a deal because the rape wasn't perfectly consummated, the conversation is going to get real ugly, real fast.

The bottom line is that a real investigation needs to be made and the last thing an institution which holds responsibility for the individuals in question should be doing is demonizing the victim.

I know you're serving as a proxy for the ND administration & fan base in general and I apologize for that but you're the one here soo...
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It makes a difference when BP posters state that the case involved 'rape' rather than 'sexual assault'. He was just clarifying that, and I think it's clear that he believes that both situations should be investigated and prosecuted. But I know I would certainly look at the two situations differently if they related to my daughter; although if the series of events resulted in her suicide I would be devastated regardless of what sexual acts were involved.

I don't think ulukinatme is trying to defend ND's actions in the case, and he's obviously trying to not get dragged into an argument on the topic. He made a legitimate clarification about the Lizzy Seeberg situation, and let's just leave it at that.

It's common for us to knock ND's actions about many things, and their actions in this case and the scissor-lift tragedy deserve harsh criticism, but we should be accurate when doing so.
 
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You hit the nail on the head I believe, BB73. I'm not defending the defendants in this case, just trying to keep the allegations straight. If the guy was guilty I'd want to see him off the team with no return.

I'm going to try and steer away from these conversations in the future for my part and focus on football. I've lost count of how many times the discussion has been rehashed.
 
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BB73;2344743; said:
It makes a difference when BP posters state that the case involved 'rape' rather than 'sexual assault'. He was just clarifying that, and I think it's clear that he believes that both situations should be investigated and prosecuted. But I know I would certainly look at the two situations differently if they related to my daughter; although if the series of events resulted in her suicide I would be devastated regardless of what sexual acts were involved.

I don't think ulukinatme is trying to defend ND's actions in the case, and he's obviously trying to not get dragged into an argument on the topic. He made a legitimate clarification about the Lizzy Seeberg situation, and let's just leave it at that.

It's common for us to knock ND's actions about many things, and their actions in this case and the scissor-lift tragedy deserve harsh criticism, but we should be accurate when doing so.
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You'll have to ban me to prevent me from saying Brian Kelly murdered that student. :p
 
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