Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[ulukinatme]

This off season came entirely too soon for the Buckeyes. They should have taken the ban last year, at least there wouldn't have been an SEC team in the championship.

 

[Osi]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...04/why-i-wont-be-cheering-for-old-notre-dame/

Well, since you asked ? and many of my friends have, some more than once ? no, I will not be cheering for my alma mater, the University of Notre Dame, to win big-time college football?s championship on Jan. 7. What?s really surprising me are those who believe as I do that two players on the team have committed serious criminal acts ? sexual assault in one case, and rape in another ? but assumed that I?d support the team anyway, just as they are.

 

[ulukinatme]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...04/why-i-wont-be-cheering-for-old-notre-dame/

Old news. This former alumnus writes for the Washington Post and decided to resurrect the story 2 years after the case was shut with no new information. Sounds like she needs the cheap hits. She says she won't be cheering for her alma mater, however I can't see how she could possibly root for any team if this incident is going to give her pause. You can pick up the student paper or campus police report for just about any college on a given weekend and find incidents of sexual assault, this is not an isolated incident, it happens every day.

I understand that a young girl died, it was a tragedy that never should have happened. However, after investigations by campus police, South Bend police, Indiana state police, and an independent investigation by the Chicago Tribune turned up nothing this writer continues to grind an axe and damn the accused to hell. At the worst the player charged groped Seeberg's breast, nothing more. Again, I don't condone the action if it in fact happened, but it's hardly news that needed to be drudged up a second time years later. The fact that the player was a reserve on a 6-6 team at the team would have given the university no reason not to throw him under the bus if there was anything concrete enough for a conviction.

 

[BB73]

Old news. This former alumnus writes for the Washington Post and decided to resurrect the story 2 years after the case was shut with no new information. Sounds like she needs the cheap hits. She says she won't be cheering for her alma mater, however I can't see how she could possibly root for any team if this incident is going to give her pause. You can pick up the student paper or campus police report for just about any college on a given weekend and find incidents of sexual assault, this is not an isolated incident, it happens every day.

I understand that a young girl died, it was a tragedy that never should have happened. However, after investigations by campus police, South Bend police, Indiana state police, and an independent investigation by the Chicago Tribune turned up nothing this writer continues to grind an axe and damn the accused to hell. At the worst the player charged groped Seeberg's breast, nothing more. Again, I don't condone the action if it in fact happened, but it's hardly news that needed to be drudged up a second time years later. The fact that the player was a reserve on a 6-6 team at the team would have given the university no reason not to throw him under the bus if there was anything concrete enough for a conviction.

I'm amazed that the name of the player never became public knowledge. And obviously Seeberg wasn't around to tell her side of the story to any of those investigations.

Edit - I was able to find out the accused's name with a little internet research, but I won't post it here, and I'll delete any post that does.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm amazed that the name of the player never became public knowledge. And obviously Seeberg wasn't around to tell her side of the story to any of those investigations.

I'm sketchy on the details, but because of the nature of the case the name was stricken I guess. I've also heard that it would also be a big defamation suit if you floated his name around on the internet in a signed article. Thats why a lot of articles that posted information regarding the case pulled his name later, later referred to as "the accused." Occasionally you'll see a few names pop up in comment sections of websites. From family on campus I have a good hunch who was rumored to be involved.

 

[alexhortdog95]

Old news. This former alumnus writes for the Washington Post and decided to resurrect the story 2 years after the case was shut with no new information. Sounds like she needs the cheap hits. She says she won't be cheering for her alma mater, however I can't see how she could possibly root for any team if this incident is going to give her pause. You can pick up the student paper or campus police report for just about any college on a given weekend and find incidents of sexual assault, this is not an isolated incident, it happens every day.

I understand that a young girl died, it was a tragedy that never should have happened. However, after investigations by campus police, South Bend police, Indiana state police, and an independent investigation by the Chicago Tribune turned up nothing this writer continues to grind an axe and damn the accused to hell. At the worst the player charged groped Seeberg's breast, nothing more. Again, I don't condone the action if it in fact happened, but it's hardly news that needed to be drudged up a second time years later. The fact that the player was a reserve on a 6-6 team at the team would have given the university no reason not to throw him under the bus if there was anything concrete enough for a conviction.

Not to make light of the situation, nor do I condone rape or sexual assault of any kind....but it's a Catholic school....and they're not raping boys.

That torch has been passed to

And while the sexual assaults are nothing to look at, that means things are looking UP at Ol Notre Dame.

That, and Beano is throwing a ND party right now.

 

[OhioState001]

A more comprehensive stat comparison:

PLAYER ... TKL .. TFL .. SCK .. INT .. FF .. FR .. PBU .. TD
Teo ...... 103 .. 5.5 .. 1.5 ... 7 .... 0 ... 1 .... 4 ... 0
Shazier .. 116 .. 17 ... 5.0 ... 1 .... 3 ... 0 ... 11 ... 1

At least three of Teo's INTs have been thrown right at him. Shazier's sole INT was due to his pre-snap read and subsequent reaction to the ball and resulted in a touchdown.

How many plays were each of them on the field? Te'o has played way less snaps than Shazier.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

How many plays were each of them on the field? Te'o has played way less snaps than Shazier.

Which still doesn't explain the huge disparity in TFLs, sacks, pass break-ups, and forced fumbles. The fact that Te'o plays MLB full time would account for Te'os advantage in the number of tackles per play. What Shazier does is make more impact per tackle than does Te'o. Here's an excerpt from an O-Zone article which helps illustrate my point:

There are a ton of statistics from Shazier that I can give you that dwarf Te'o's, but the detractors will simply go back to Notre Dame's low number of defensive snaps.

I could cite the fact that Shazier finished with 13 more tackles than Te'o, or 11.5 more tackles for loss, or 3.5 more sacks, or three more forced fumbles, but I won't.

Instead, I'll give you a stat that isn't based on number of snaps. Manti Te'o's average tackle took place after 5.1 yards had already been gained by the opponent. Ryan Shazier's average tackle took place after 4.3 yards had already been gained, and that's including a tackle 74 yards down the field against Nebraska as Shazier tracked down receiver Kenny Bell.

Over the second half of the season, Shazier cut that number down to just 2.4 yards. Te'o allowed more than twice that over the course of 12 games.

Simply, Shazier made more plays, and made them closer to the line of scrimmage than Te'o,

So, the "he wasn't on the field as much" argument means jack shit...

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

PSU sacrificed an untold number of children to a sexual predator in the name of football wins. Notre Dame has sacrificed at least two that we know of for a return to football relevancy after a 30 some odd year absence.

It's really hard for me to understand how rational thinking adults can condone that type of behavior from the University they supposedly care so much about. I was ready to cut ties with OSU if they kept Tressel after he was caught lying to the NCAA, these people are willing to overlook murder and rape.

Say what you will about the SEC, at the end of the day its recruiting violations. They have nothing on this kind of moral corruption and sickness.

So I see people on here debating rooting for the SEC team or ND like it's actually a question and I am again confused. The SEC is annoying, PSU/ND are [censored]ing evil.

God Damned Fucking Post of the YEAR!

 

[ulukinatme]

Which still doesn't explain the huge disparity in TFLs, sacks, pass break-ups, and forced fumbles. The fact that Te'o plays MLB full time would account for Te'os advantage in the number of tackles per play. What Shazier does is make more impact per tackle than does Te'o. Here's an excerpt from an O-Zone article which helps illustrate my point:



So, the "he wasn't on the field as much" argument means jack shit...

Dunno about that, theres a pretty good argument for the defense efficiency. For starters, Te'o wasn't used as a downhill, attacking LB this year at all. He rarely was sent on blitzs, he was more prone to sit back in coverage or spy, which is why he accounted for so many INTs over other LBs this year. Diaco brings pressure with Prince Shembo more often than not at OLB (10.5 TFL, 7.5 sackes) I would imagine this would also account for the fact that Shazier gave up less yards per tackle as he played closer to the line of scrimmage.

As far as tackles, if you take in account how productive each guy was, and then take into account the number of plays each team ran on defense, they're much closer. Well, in tackles anyway. Here are some stats

Player.....Tot Plays.....Tackles.....Tackles/Play.....Team Yds/Play
Te'o..........757............. 103......... .136................ 4.55
Shazier......849............. 114......... .134................ 5.08


The Irish ended up running 92 less plays on defense than the Buckeyes, or 11% less. When you multiply Manti's average tackles among total plays by the number of plays the Buckeyes ran, you come up with 115 tackles for the year as oppose to 103. That shows that if the Irish defense wasn't as efficient as it was this year his stats may have looked more "impressive." The number of tackles doesn't really hold water in this case. Both guys were equally productive.

Now, given that Te'o was in coverage more this year than attacking downfield, we could compare his stats in either of his previous two years to Shazier's and it would be a better comparison in tackles.

Player.....Tackles.....TFL.....Sacks....FF.....Plays/Game....Tk/Play
'10 Te'o....129........ 8.5..... 1.0...... 1....... 904........... .143
'11 Te'o....128.......13.5..... 5.0.......1....... 887........... .144
'12 Shazier.114...... 17....... 5.0..... 3....... 849............ .134

Shazier had the obvious advantage his sophomore year in sackles/TFL, but as far as tackles they were fairly close. Te'o had a slight advantage in tackles, while Shazier edged out in TFL against '11 Teo and destroyed him in TFL and sacks against the '10 stats. Anyway, I used the stats above to paint a picture regarding overall defensive efficiency and how the final tackle totals don't always add up. When you're considering defensive stats you need to also look at the defense's body of work and how much of an impact each player made at their position. Both guys are obviously good, and I see Shazier going on to eclipsing past greats like Hawk and Little Animal once his time is finished.

 

[BB73]

I see two fairly comparable years at LB, and think that it can be argued either way.

And then I see one guy who was not voted first team all-league by the coaches, and the other guy with 6 national awards already in his trophy case.

Folks, this is why ND being good is dangerous. The media bandwagon associated with that program is ridiculous, and it's not good for tOSU.

 

[Steve19]

I see two fairly comparable years at LB, and think that it can be argued either way.

And then I see one guy who was not voted first team all-league by the coaches, and the other guy with 6 national awards already in his trophy case.

Folks, this is why ND being good is dangerous. The media bandwagon associated with that program is ridiculous, and it's not good for tOSU.

And that is why those of us who have been around a while will be hoping that Alabama simply blows Notre Dame away in the most devastating way.

 

[ulukinatme]

I expect Shazier will start getting nominated or win an award his Junior year, especially after getting shafted on AA/conference teams this year. Te'o wasn't nominated for anything his Sophomore year. Looking at what Urban is doing with the program, and how Wisconsin and Michigan State are transitioning/rebuilding, I expect Urban to dominate in the coming years which will highlight Buckeye players.

That said, I didn't expect Te'o to win as many awards as he has. He probably shouldn't have gotten the Maxwell and the Walter Camp, but many good teams just seemed to play poorly this year, and many frontrunners just seemed to falter or failed to establish themselves as clear winners. The exception would be the Buckeyes. The voters shafted a 12-0 Buckeye team with these awards, Braxton especially. He should share the Heisman favorite spot next year.

 

[ant80]

Notre Dame's got a terrific class coming in. It'll get even worse if they win on Monday. Hope 'Bama wins... :(

 

[Buckeye513]

Have lost their four BCS games by 32, 14, 27, and 28. An average of 25.25 points.