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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

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Bleed S & G;1595942; said:
The reason Lou Holtz left was because you can't recruit the players you need to win at ND.
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I don't think this is true, which makes the idea that it is not a step up false.

Willingham recruited and developed some talent but was not a very good game day coach, Weis took said talent and did pretty impressive things with them in the few years that they were still around, but hasn't developed shit after that.

If you can get a coach that is a good recruiter, is good at developing talent, and is also a good game day coach, Notre Dame can be very, very good. The problem for them is they haven't been able to find that magical mix in quite some time.
 
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Bleed S & G;1595942; said:
Serious question, and I'm not asking for the "old timers" to jump all over me, is Notre Dame really a 'step-up' program? The reason Lou Holtz left was because you can't recruit the players you need to win at ND. I know it's not a step up from where Stoops is at now, but I would also go out on a limb to say Brian Kelly would be a helluva lot better off if he were to stay and continue to build a program at UC and get his new stadium. M*ch*g*n is a step-up from Cincy, and I can see Brian Kelley or Harbaugh wanting that job - but is ND that appealing for coaches today?
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Religious ties and academic reputation can still lead to success (see St. Ignatius in Cleveland, for example), so I don't think it's true you can't get good kids to compete. Notre Dame was beating Miami and Florida State in the late 80s and early 90s...it wasn't THAT long ago they were all good. So yes, it's still a "step-up" program regardless of the 40s and 50s...but it definitely requires a certain type of coach to be successful, and Notre Dame is 0 for the last 3.
 
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Bucklion;1596001; said:
Religious ties and academic reputation can still lead to success (see St. Ignatius in Cleveland, for example), so I don't think it's true you can't get good kids to compete. Notre Dame was beating Miami and Florida State in the late 80s and early 90s...it wasn't THAT long ago they were all good. So yes, it's still a "step-up" program regardless of the 40s and 50s...but it definitely requires a certain type of coach to be successful, and Notre Dame is 0 for the last 3.
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Yep. Getting the talent you need is not an issue at ND. Finding a coach capable of utilizing it is.
 
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Weis has recruited plenty of talent, including a lot of kids with OSU offers. He just flat sucks as a coach.

As far as Harbaugh, I don't see ND being a step up from where he is now. He has Stanford at a point where they've absolutely blasted Oregon and USC off of the field. Notre Dame has considered it a "victory" to have horseshoe games (close counts!) with SC. The only lure would be money. I'd stay in Palo Alto, if he can get a good long term deal. There will never be calls for his head, no matter what the Cardinal does on the field, because expectations are low.

I can see Kelly doing it, unless there's a good chance that he'd be the guy at Michigan, which is marginally a better job than ND. Michigan may still be suffering from remorse over the failure to land Les Miles, though.

Bobby Stoops is a Domer pipe dream. The logic that he's tired of the heat in Norman is ridiculous. Going to South Bend is jumping directly into the fire.

If Kelly turns down the Dome, this will get interesting.
 
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BrutusBobcat;1596147; said:
As far as Harbaugh, I don't see ND being a step up from where he is now. He has Stanford at a point where they've absolutely blasted Oregon and USC off of the field. Notre Dame has considered it a "victory" to have horseshoe games (close counts!) with SC. The only lure would be money. I'd stay in Palo Alto, if he can get a good long term deal. There will never be calls for his head, no matter what the Cardinal does on the field, because expectations are low.
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That's the Ohio State anti-Notre Dame tinted glasses talking there. Let's be frank: Stanford is not Notre Dame. As much as we all like to bash ND (me included), the 'mystique' is not ever going to go away.

If Harbaugh went 12-0 at Stanford the best case scenario is the Rose Bowl. Stanford would not jump any SEC power and probably wouldn't jump any undefeated Big 10 or Big 12 team. Ever. Hell, this year they probably wouldn't be able to even jump TCU. The name 'Stanford' just doesn't have that cache when it comes to football. Good? Yeah. Elite? No way.

At Notre Dame, he only has to go 10-2 to get any BCS bowl. In years where BCS chaos reigns, being at Notre Dame almost guarantees you're always the best 1-loss team, or even the best 2-loss, at least where it counts ... the polls.

11-1 Notre Dame would go to the national title game ahead of 12-0 Stanford.

ND not only gives Harbaugh a realistic chance at a title, but it also provides him (1) a mulligan every season, and (2) a chance to stick it to USC, Michigan State, and Michigan every year.
 
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Dryden;1596213; said:
That's the Ohio State anti-Notre Dame tinted glasses talking there. Let's be frank: Stanford is not Notre Dame. As much as we all like to bash ND (me included), the 'mystique' is not ever going to go away.

If Harbaugh went 12-0 at Stanford the best case scenario is the Rose Bowl. Stanford would not jump any SEC power and probably wouldn't jump any undefeated Big 10 or Big 12 team. Ever. Hell, this year they probably wouldn't be able to even jump TCU. The name 'Stanford' just doesn't have that cache when it comes to football. Good? Yeah. Elite? No way.

At Notre Dame, he only has to go 10-2 to get any BCS bowl. In years where BCS chaos reigns, being at Notre Dame almost guarantees you're always the best 1-loss team, or even the best 2-loss, at least where it counts ... the polls.

11-1 Notre Dame would go to the national title game ahead of 12-0 Stanford.

ND not only gives Harbaugh a realistic chance at a title, but it also provides him (1) a mulligan every season, and (2) a chance to stick it to USC, Michigan State, and Michigan every year.
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I don't know that I agree with this. Stanford football may not be the strongest of their athletic programs, but they have had some level of success, and play in the Pac-10. I think it is very conceivable that they could play for the national title if they were undefeated. An undefeated Stanford would be ahead of an undefeated TCU/Boise State no problem. I also don't buy that it would be a given for Notre Dame to pass them if Notre Dame is 11-1 and Stanford is undefeated.

They also have a shitload of money to spread around, and if they want to pay Harbaugh to stay, they very well could.
 
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BrutusBobcat;1596147; said:
Weis has recruited plenty of talent, including a lot of kids with OSU offers. He just flat sucks as a coach.

As far as Harbaugh, I don't see ND being a step up from where he is now. He has Stanford at a point where they've absolutely blasted Oregon and USC off of the field. Notre Dame has considered it a "victory" to have horseshoe games (close counts!) with SC. The only lure would be money. I'd stay in Palo Alto, if he can get a good long term deal. There will never be calls for his head, no matter what the Cardinal does on the field, because expectations are low.

I can see Kelly doing it, unless there's a good chance that he'd be the guy at Michigan, which is marginally a better job than ND. Michigan may still be suffering from remorse over the failure to land Les Miles, though.

Bobby Stoops is a Domer pipe dream. The logic that he's tired of the heat in Norman is ridiculous. Going to South Bend is jumping directly into the fire.

If Kelly turns down the Dome, this will get interesting.
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If Harbaugh is asked to be the next Domer coach he'd be STUPID to turn it down unless he's waiting for the USC or MIchigan jobs (which are the only other two I can see him going too)...

The guy made a TON of money for himself by beating the shit out of USC. Now we'll see if he's smart enough to grasp it.
 
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BuckeyeMike80;1596248; said:
If Harbaugh is asked to be the next Domer coach he'd be STUPID to turn it down unless he's waiting for the USC or MIchigan jobs (which are the only other two I can see him going too)...
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Michigan would have to swallow a lot of pride to hire him. USC won't have any job openings anytime soon, it would take a Coker type collapse for Petey.

The guy made a TON of money for himself by beating the shit out of USC. Now we'll see if he's smart enough to grasp it.
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What he did was give himself a ton of credibility and show that he's willing to not only play with the big boys, but to kick the big boys in the teeth. So far his coaching tenure could be summed up by prison advice, "as soon as you get inside, you find the biggest motherfucker in the yard and you knock him out"

The Notre Dame job is a curse, but I am sure some bigger name will take it and ruin his career but make a but-ton of cash while doing so.
 
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Bleed S & G;1595942; said:
Serious question, and I'm not asking for the "old timers" to jump all over me, is Notre Dame really a 'step-up' program? The reason Lou Holtz left was because you can't recruit the players you need to win at ND. I know it's not a step up from where Stoops is at now, but I would also go out on a limb to say Brian Kelly would be a helluva lot better off if he were to stay and continue to build a program at UC and get his new stadium. M*ch*g*n is a step-up from Cincy, and I can see Brian Kelley or Harbaugh wanting that job - but is ND that appealing for coaches today?
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I have it on good authority (two former ND players I worked with) that Bob Davies greased the skids beneath Lou. "too much attention to the offense, you need to win with defense. I can do that, Lou won't."
 
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