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ND/Weis various topics

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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Pushing what? Like you friggin scare me! PLEASE! I have a solid poll heck actually several years worth while you have a game. I also have a TV contract and the media darlings of America.

Heck most posters on this board agree with me.
Click to expand...

What "solid poll"? Read Steve19's and buckiprof's posts totally refuting the validity of the Harris Poll, which is your sole claim. Several year's worth of an invalid poll still adds up to invalid statistics.

Your TV contract was in danger of getting cancelled due to poor ratings until Weis was hired. So much for the support from the "biggest fane base in Amercia". :roll1:

The only thing most posters on this agree about you is that you're grasping for straws...
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
First off I also pointed out the ALL-PRO numbers that give ND an edge, ever so slight.While I dont think ND has 2 QB'S the likes or Starr and Namath I do not think either was at the level Montana was.Speaking of journeymen QB's
heck I could hardly find any info on the 4th Alabama QB you mentioned.
Anyway you said that Alabama was clearly ahead of ND at the QB postion which is clearly not the case. Slight yes, huge no way.

MONTANA-NAMATH- ADV MONTANA
THESIMANN -STARR ADV. STARR
LAMONICA-STABLER-ADV. STABLER
BEURLEIN- TODD ADV BEURLEIN
Click to expand...


Well, I see you continue to use Joe Montana's career to inflate the original question, which is QBs produced AS A WHOLE (after all, Joe Montana and I have appeared in a total of 8 Pro Bowls!). Fine, whatever. As you might imagine, othere might interpret the numbers a little differently:

One:

Montana (NFL HOF): NFL titles-4, NFL MVP-2, SB MVP-3, Pro Bowl-8
63.2%, 40,551 yards (7.5 per attempt), 273 TDs
League top 10 (season): yards x9, completions x9, TD x8 (leader x2)

Starr (NFL HOF): NFL titles-5, NFL MVP-1, SB MVP-2 (certainly would have been MVP of at least one NFL title game had there been an official award for the Ice Bowl), Pro Bowl-4
57.4%, 24,718 yards (7.8 per attempt), 152 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x7, completions x5, TD x6

Winner: You will get a lot of argument on this one. Montana played in the pass-inflated west coast era, but you can see that yards per attempt and completion percentage were roughly equivalent, as were championships and major awards. So there's no crying, I'll give a SLIGHT edge to Montana, but I consider them in the same class.

Two:

Joe Theismann: NFL titles-1, NFL MVP-1, Pro Bowl-2
56.7%, 25706 yards (7.0/attempt), 160 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x4, completions x5, TD x4

Joe Namath (NFL HOF): NFL titles-1, AFL MVP-1, SB MVP-1, Pro Bowl-5
50.1%, 27663 (7.4/attempt), 173 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x8 (leaderx3), completions x7 (leaderx2), TDs x8 (leaderx1)

Edge: No contest...Namath

Three:

Daryle Lamonica: AFL MVP-2, Pro Bowl-5
49.5%, 19154 yards (7.4/attempt), 164 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x4 (leader-1), completions x4 (leader-1), TDs x6 (leader-2)

Ken Stabler: NFL titles-1, NFL MVP-1, Pro Bowl-5
59.8%, 27938 yards (7.4/attempt), 194 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x7, completions x8, TDs x7 (leader-2)

Winner: considering Stabler has a ring and is in the top 50 all-time in attempts, completions, yards, and TDs, this isn't close either...Stabler

Four:

Steve Beuerlein: Pro Bowl-1
56.9%, 24026 yards (7.2/attempt), 147 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x3 (leader-1), completions x2 (leader-1), TD x2

Richard Todd:
54.3%, 20610 yards (6.9/attempt), 124 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x2, completions x3, TD x2

Winner: Todd was a starter for 8 seasons, Beuerlein 4. Beuerlein had one great season, 2 good ones. Todd had 4-6 solid above-average seasons, none great. Todd took his team to the AFC championship game in 1982 by winning 2 postseason games. I tend to give the edge in productivity to the guy who played longer, started longer, and played in more postseason games (4 versus 2)...Todd


So, Chief, looks like you have one slight lead with your best player, the next 2 are Alabama in a walk, and the 4th goes to Alabama moderately but solidly also...thus, in totality, I fail to see where this is even a relevant comparison, save Joe Montana at the top of the Irish list.
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Go ahead, just for fun, search most popular college football team on your puter and see what comes up...
Click to expand...

Your mistake here is confounding "biggest fan base" with "most popular". ND wins in these name-recognition polls simply by virtue of being the nation's premier Catholic university, while on the other hand OSU has the nation's largest alumni base and is located in a much more populous city (and state), giving us what is certainly a higher number of actual "fans" of our athletic teams.

Given the choice between being voted Most Popular or actually having the most friends, the latter is clearly preferable.
 
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If there is one "sure" way to measure fan bases, it would be with merchandise sales. For members of the CLC (Collegiate Licensing Company) these are readily available in their summary reports. Notre Dame became a member in 2003. Ohio State is not a member.

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/rankings.html

Discounting Ohio State from the equation, I can say with 100% confidence that Notre Dame has neither the largest or most rabid fan base in America.

In fact, unless Notre Dame has a winning football program, they're not even Top-5. I'm sorry to say, but without figures for Ohio State, the Top 2 universities in licensed sales are routinely Michigan and Texas -- counting for all athletic department sales. I'll go out on a limb and suppose that the annual #1 university overall, North Carolina, isn't on this list because of their football team.

Top 10 by sales Q2, 2005:
(1.) The University of Michigan
(2.) The University of Texas at Austin
(3.) University of Georgia
(4.) University of Notre Dame
(5.) University of North Carolina
(6.) University of Tennessee Knoxville
(7.) The University of Oklahoma
(8.) University of Florida
(9.) The University of Alabama
(10.) Florida State University

Top 10 by sales Q1, 2005:
(1.) The University of Texas at Austin
(2.) The University of Michigan
(3.) University of Georgia
(4.) University of North Carolina
(5.) University of Tennessee Knoxville
(6.) University of Notre Dame
(7.) The University of Oklahoma
(8.) University of Florida
(9.) Florida State University
(10.) The University of Alabama

Top 10 by sales Fiscal 2004-2005
(1.) University of North Carolina
(2.) The University of Michigan
(3.) The University of Texas at Austin
(4.) University of Georgia
(5.) The University of Oklahoma
(6.) University of Notre Dame
(7.) University of Tennessee Knoxville
(8.) University of Florida
(9.) Louisiana State University
(10.) The University of Alabama

Top 10 by sales Fiscal 2003-2004
1. North Carolina
2. Michigan
3. Texas
4. Notre Dame
5. LSU
6. Oklahoma
7. Georgia
8. Tennessee
9. Florida
10. Penn State

Top 10 by sales Fiscal 2002-2003 (year before Notre Dame joined the CLC)
1. North Carolina
2. Michigan
3. Tennessee
4. Texas
5. Florida
6. Oklahoma
7. Penn State
8. Georgia
9. Nebraska
10. Kentucky
 
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no, a better way to measure fan bases is on the careometer.

careometer.gif
 
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Top ten football revenue schools (2003-2004) according to the Equity in Athletics reports:

1) Texas $47,556,281
2) Tennessee $46,704,719
3) Ohio State $46,242,355
4) Florida $42,710,967
5) Georgia $42,104,214
6) Alabama $39,848,836
7) Notre Dame $38,596,090
8) Michigan $38,547,937
9) LSU $38,381,625
10) Auburn $37,173,943

I'm going to guess OSU's sales figures were hurt in this period of time when #13 jerseys were discounted to $5. :wink:
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
There was a post a long time ago that said our sales of 2002 NC merchadise was nearly double that of any previous single-year sales, according to Nike.
Click to expand...
I read something to that effect too. The problem with any figures from Nike though is that some teams which would admittedly do very well, such as Tennessee, Nebraska, and Notre Dame, are exclusive licensees of Adidas.

I would take that report with a grain of salt, failing having it on hand to see if Adidas contracted schools were included.
 
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Bucklion said:
Well, I see you continue to use Joe Montana's career to inflate the original question, which is QBs produced AS A WHOLE (after all, Joe Montana and I have appeared in a total of 8 Pro Bowls!). Fine, whatever. As you might imagine, othere might interpret the numbers a little differently:

One:

Montana (NFL HOF): NFL titles-4, NFL MVP-2, SB MVP-3, Pro Bowl-8
63.2%, 40,551 yards (7.5 per attempt), 273 TDs
League top 10 (season): yards x9, completions x9, TD x8 (leader x2)

Starr (NFL HOF): NFL titles-5, NFL MVP-1, SB MVP-2 (certainly would have been MVP of at least one NFL title game had there been an official award for the Ice Bowl), Pro Bowl-4
57.4%, 24,718 yards (7.8 per attempt), 152 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x7, completions x5, TD x6

Winner: You will get a lot of argument on this one. Montana played in the pass-inflated west coast era, but you can see that yards per attempt and completion percentage were roughly equivalent, as were championships and major awards. So there's no crying, I'll give a SLIGHT edge to Montana, but I consider them in the same class.

Two:

Joe Theismann: NFL titles-1, NFL MVP-1, Pro Bowl-2
56.7%, 25706 yards (7.0/attempt), 160 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x4, completions x5, TD x4

Joe Namath (NFL HOF): NFL titles-1, AFL MVP-1, SB MVP-1, Pro Bowl-5
50.1%, 27663 (7.4/attempt), 173 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x8 (leaderx3), completions x7 (leaderx2), TDs x8 (leaderx1)

Edge: No contest...Namath

Three:

Daryle Lamonica: AFL MVP-2, Pro Bowl-5
49.5%, 19154 yards (7.4/attempt), 164 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x4 (leader-1), completions x4 (leader-1), TDs x6 (leader-2)

Ken Stabler: NFL titles-1, NFL MVP-1, Pro Bowl-5
59.8%, 27938 yards (7.4/attempt), 194 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x7, completions x8, TDs x7 (leader-2)

Winner: considering Stabler has a ring and is in the top 50 all-time in attempts, completions, yards, and TDs, this isn't close either...Stabler

Four:

Steve Beuerlein: Pro Bowl-1
56.9%, 24026 yards (7.2/attempt), 147 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x3 (leader-1), completions x2 (leader-1), TD x2

Richard Todd:
54.3%, 20610 yards (6.9/attempt), 124 TDs
League Top 10 (season): yards x2, completions x3, TD x2

Winner: Todd was a starter for 8 seasons, Beuerlein 4. Beuerlein had one great season, 2 good ones. Todd had 4-6 solid above-average seasons, none great. Todd took his team to the AFC championship game in 1982 by winning 2 postseason games. I tend to give the edge in productivity to the guy who played longer, started longer, and played in more postseason games (4 versus 2)...Todd


So, Chief, looks like you have one slight lead with your best player, the next 2 are Alabama in a walk, and the 4th goes to Alabama moderately but solidly also...thus, in totality, I fail to see where this is even a relevant comparison, save Joe Montana at the top of the Irish list.
Click to expand...

GREAT POINTS!
 
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NCAA's Most Profitable Basketball Programs (In Millions):
<pre> Revenue Profit<br>Louisville $18.5 $13.1<br>Arizona $16.6 $12.5<br>North Carolina $15.0 $10.2<br>NC State $11.4 $9.0<br>Illinois $11.3 $8.1<br>Indiana $11.9 $8.1<br>Wisconsin $12.0 $8.1<br>Minnesota $10.4 $7.6<br>Ohio State $11.4 $7.4<br>Kentucky $12.9 $7.2<br>Source: U.S. Dept. of Education from 2004-05 academic year</pre>

NCAA's Most Profitable Football Programs (In Millions):
<pre> Revenue Profit<br>Texas $53.2 $38.7<br>Georgia $50.9 $38.3<br>Michigan $46.4 $35.7<br>Alabama $42.9 $28.9<br>LSU $39.7 $27.5<br>Florida $43.3 $27.1<br>Notre Dame $41.8 $26.7<br>Ohio State $51.8 $26.1<br>Texas A&M $37.3 $25.2<br>Auburn $40.6 $24.2<br>Source: U.S. Dept. of Education from 2004-05 academic year</pre>

Ohio State is second only to Texas in total revenue, and this is for a time period where Ohio State went 8-4 while Texas had a terrific season and won the Rose Bowl. Ohio State is the only school on both lists, Basketball and Football.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
What "solid poll"? Read Steve19's and buckiprof's posts totally refuting the validity of the Harris Poll, which is your sole claim. Several year's worth of an invalid poll still adds up to invalid statistics.

Your TV contract was in danger of getting cancelled due to poor ratings until Weis was hired. So much for the support from the "biggest fane base in Amercia". :roll1:

The only thing most posters on this agree about you is that you're grasping for straws...
Click to expand...

Fone one Harris polls are nationaly recognized polls, heck you could find fault with every single poll there is. The TV contract was never in danger.

OSU is a state school with it's fans either living in Ohio, from Ohio or go to OSU! Thats it! ND is a national school with a huge Catholic following and huge fan bases in Cal, FL, NY etc.
 
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