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Mustain & Arkansas Desperation (Merged)

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
The point is that this is not an unusual situation. It's part of the dirty world of recruiting, and it is bullshit. As I said before, I'm not fan of Houston Nutt.

True, but beside the point.

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
Again, the family has to be practical about it. The program and its success was ALWAYS going to come first. If they thought different, then they are stupid.

The family is being practical. They met to see if things were going to change. They weren't satisfied, so they're leaving. The aren't taking Arkansas to court. They're just leaving. Is that suddenly impractical?

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
First of all, I'm not really sure in what terms Nutt said what about the offense. It's he said-she said.

Of course

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
Second of all, this family and the Springsboro kids in general can't possibly have expected the rest of the players at Arkansas and the fans of Arkansas football to suffer through mediocre football because of it.

At the same time, are the Springsboro kids expected to suffer through a situation that was not what they had been promised?


StadiumDorm;752750; said:
They sound like little league parents that think it's all about them.

Not quite. Little league parents are a pain because they ASSUME that such a promise (playing time, etc) is implied. This is nothing like that.


StadiumDorm;752750; said:
Again, he said-she said on the promise thing.

If we're going to take a he-said, she-said approach and give the benefit of the doubt, why not do it to both parties? Yes, we're not going to assume that Nutt is going against his word. Let's also not assume that Mustain is being unreasonable. How can you say when, as you say, we don't really know what was promised?

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
I expect that you would hold Pete Carroll to such a standard as well on signatures he gets - you know like attempting to reassure a recruit that USC won't face sanctions (when he can't say for certain about that at all).

Can I also expect he-said, she-said deference? And, let's really parse out the issue. The issue isn't that Nutt should be forced to keep his promise. The issue isn't that Nutt should be punished. The issue is should Mustain be criticized if he relied on promises, finds out those promises are not true, and is now looking elsewhere?

So, in your hypo, I agree not to call the SC recruit a malcontent and troublemaker if he is lied to and then transfers.


StadiumDorm;752750; said:
I think implicit in anything that you say to a recruit is that there are contingencies.

Contingencies, yes. But also consequences. Nutt can change his mind if he wants. And Mustain can react accordingly.


StadiumDorm;752750; said:
Certainly if Mustain went 0-15 with 6 picks in a game, the family couldn't reasonably expect that the offense was going to revolve around him anymore. Or if Mustain went out and picked up an OVI, he might get suspended or even kicked off the team. Or if Mustain became an massive lazy prick at practices, was a horrible teammate, then maybe he shouldn't expect to start.

I think the promise was more as to the style of offense. And these hypos you're suggesting are things I don't believe anyone would dispute. But I don't know how you get from "I can go with the McFadden offense if you are lazy or get arrested" to "I can go with the McFadden offense if I change my mind"

StadiumDorm;752750; said:
Again, no coach can make any ironclad promise, so this "certainty" you speak can't possibly exist. And if the family didn't know that, they're stupid.

Things can happen that can void the promise (eg, Mustain ends up being the worst QB ever), but that doesn't mean the promise is meaningless.
 
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methomps;752794; said:
he family is being practical. They met to see if things were going to change. They weren't satisfied, so they're leaving. The aren't taking Arkansas to court. They're just leaving. Is that suddenly impractical?

And they did their fair share of whining on the way out.

At the same time, are the Springsboro kids expected to suffer through a situation that was not what they had been promised?

They were freshman. I can't stress that enough. If you're disappointed with no playing as a freshman, then you're a primadonna.


Not quite. Little league parents are a pain because they ASSUME that such a promise (playing time, etc) is implied. This is nothing like that.

They are a pain because they assumed there were no conditions implied, such as performance issues.


If we're going to take a he-said, she-said approach and give the benefit of the doubt, why not do it to both parties? Yes, we're not going to assume that Nutt is going against his word. Let's also not assume that Mustain is being unreasonable. How can you say when, as you say, we don't really know what was promised?

I can assume Mustain is being unreasonable, because I watched him play last year. No team should run their offense around a quarterback that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Can I also expect he-said, she-said deference? And, let's really parse out the issue. The issue isn't that Nutt should be forced to keep his promise. The issue isn't that Nutt should be punished. The issue is should Mustain be criticized if he relied on promises, finds out those promises are not true, and is now looking elsewhere?

He's acting like a baby about it. He believes he should be running an offense when he's not capable at this point of doing so. That's whining to me.

So, in your hypo, I agree not to call the SC recruit a malcontent and troublemaker if he is lied to and then transfers.

Not if your issue is with the promise being made, if one was made.

I honestly think Mustain is being a whiner either way.


Contingencies, yes. But also consequences. Nutt can change his mind if he wants. And Mustain can react accordingly.

And if his actions in accordance are unreasonable, I can call him a whiner.


I think the promise was more as to the style of offense. And these hypos you're suggesting are things I don't believe anyone would dispute. But I don't know how you get from "I can go with the McFadden offense if you are lazy or get arrested" to "I can go with the McFadden offense if I change my mind"

Actually, its "I can go with the McFadden offense if you stink up the joint, and Darren turns into a Heisman-caliber player." It wasn't something Nutt just felt like doing. He was compelled to based upon player performance and the best interests of the team, not of the individual.

Things can happen that can void the promise (eg, Mustain ends up being the worst QB ever), but that doesn't mean the promise is meaningless.

Well, Mustain was one of the worst freshman quarterbacks I had ever seen. And McFadden became one of the best sophomore running backs I have ever seen. So I think that voided the promise.
 
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methomps;752809; said:
In-N-Out burgers

and hot ass chicks!

I think some of you may be missing the big reason why Nutt is wrong. Two years ago he was the OC and did a terrible job. Rather than quitting (like many Ark fans wanted) he brought in an offensive coordinator who was the head coach at Springdale (they won the state championship that year with MM at QB and a wide open attack). Instead of turning the offense over to Malzahn (sp?) like everyone thought, he kept it for himself. That is a bullshit move IMO. He basically hired Malzahn to take the heat off, but when he got there rendered him useless by not giving him full control. That is why Nutt is wrong and IMO a terrible coach. I would not want to play for a coach like that.
 
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fourteenandoh;752887; said:
That is why Nutt is wrong and IMO a terrible coach. I would not want to play for a coach like that.

Well, he's an awful coach and I wouldn't let my kid (if I had one) play for him. That much is clear and hasn't been in doubt since he took over. (Well, apparently that was lost on the Springsboro crew)

But he was absolutely right to run that offense around Darren McFadden regardless of any perceives promises of style.
 
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and hot ass chicks!

I think some of you may be missing the big reason why Nutt is wrong. Two years ago he was the OC and did a terrible job. Rather than quitting (like many Ark fans wanted) he brought in an offensive coordinator who was the head coach at Springdale (they won the state championship that year with MM at QB and a wide open attack). Instead of turning the offense over to Malzahn (sp?) like everyone thought, he kept it for himself. That is a bullshit move IMO. He basically hired Malzahn to take the heat off, but when he got there rendered him useless by not giving him full control. That is why Nutt is wrong and IMO a terrible coach. I would not want to play for a coach like that.
Actually he hired Malzahn so he could sign Mustain. Mustain and his family fell for it.

How often does a guy go from a high school head coach to a D1 head coach in 2 years?
 
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StadiumDorm;752871; said:
And they did their fair share of whining on the way out.

If you were in that situation with what was on the line (pro futures, etc.), I bet grin-and-bear-it wouldn't be as appealing, either.



StadiumDorm;752871; said:
They were freshman. I can't stress that enough. If you're disappointed with no playing as a freshman, then you're a primadonna.

Again, it wasn't about playing as a freshman. Mustain came in with every intention of redshirting. He wasn't the starter going into the season.

And what about Damian Williams and Ben Cleveland? Both made the SEC All-Freshman team. Yet they joined Mustain in being unhappy about the situation.

The evidence just does not exist to suggest the problem was with Mustain's playing time. It was with the style of the offense. They went to Arkansas on the promise that changes would be made on offense, and that isn't happening.



StadiumDorm;752871; said:
They are a pain because they assumed there were no conditions implied, such as performance issues.

Again, Williams and Cleveland were playing. They made the All-Freshman team. It was about the style of offense.

StadiumDorm;752871; said:
I can assume Mustain is being unreasonable, because I watched him play last year. No team should run their offense around a quarterback that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Attacking his play doesn't help your argument.

StadiumDorm;752871; said:
He's acting like a baby about it. He believes he should be running an offense when he's not capable at this point of doing so. That's whining to me.

If it were about playing time, do you really think he would be considering USC? If he wanted to play right away, he'd go to Tulsa.

Now, what might USC have that could interest him? A pro-style offense and a reputation for churning out pro prospects? Nah, must be the playing time again. After all, Sanchez and Corp are easier to beat out than...Casey Dick?

Actually, its "I can go with the McFadden offense if you stink up the joint, and Darren turns into a Heisman-caliber player." It wasn't something Nutt just felt like doing. He was compelled to based upon player performance and the best interests of the team, not of the individual.

Again, should of thought of that before making promises.


Well, Mustain was one of the worst freshman quarterbacks I had ever seen. And McFadden became one of the best sophomore running backs I have ever seen. So I think that voided the promise.

A true freshman that had completed 52% of his passes and had a positive TD/int ratio is one of the worst freshman quarterbacks you've ever seen? Doubtful.

McFadden didn't "become" one of the best runningbacks this year. He already was one long before promises were made to the Springdale kids that changes would be made. Arkansas already knew what McFadden was capable of when they made the promises to change the offense.
 
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methomps;752985; said:
A true freshman that had completed 52% of his passes and had a positive TD/int ratio is one of the worst freshman quarterbacks you've ever seen? Doubtful.

In the games I saw, the guy was extremely erratic. I wouldn't mold an offense around him until he learned the speed of the game.

McFadden didn't "become" one of the best runningbacks this year. He already was one long before promises were made to the Springdale kids that changes would be made. Arkansas already knew what McFadden was capable of when they made the promises to change the offense.

If you go back and look at my posts, it's not about whether it was ok to promise anything. I dislike Houston Nutt very much.

McFadden was a good back his freshman year. This year, he became, IMO, the second best player in college football. And in Felix Jones, and you have a running offense. There's no other way to slice. A coach would get fired for running any other type of offense.

Then you have to add in the fact that there was no quarterback on that roster capable of running a prolific passing attack. Maybe at some point in the future. But it wasn't going to happen their freshman year. If they though that, they're just being ridiculous.

And if they are upset about the style of offense, that's more absurd than being upset about playing time. Players earn playing time and talent at certain positions dictates syle of play.

Ask Fred Davis. Apparently, he thought Ohio State was just a running school, and he'd just be blocking (and no doubt, USC didn't put that into his head at all).

Schools change philosophies depending on the personnel. Arkansas could very well have opened it up over the next two or three years just as these players expected.
 
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Broyles has apparently offered to resign by the end of 2007.

si.com

Report: Broyles to resign at Arkansas


FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. (AP) -- The University of Arkansas' trustees will meet Saturday amid reports that athletic director Frank Broyles will offer to resign by the end of 2007, wrapping up a 50-year career amid turmoil in the Razorbacks' football program.

However, Alan Sugg, president of the university system, said Thursday night that the board would not force Broyles to take such action.

Cont'd ...
 
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Another source saying the same: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2769260

Commentary which shows how times have changed:
White said recent controversy surrounding the football team -- including the departure of offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn and a pair of top freshmen -- might have played a role in the retirement decision.
"I think that certainly recent events would have contributed to it," White said. "I think that the issue really is the level of pressure that exists today. ... With blogs and message boards and talk shows what they are, the pressure on coaches and athletic directors is just incredible today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2769409

I'm not familiar with the Arkansas program, but I cannot believe all of which has transpired after a great year.
 
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Mustain enjoys visit to USC

The former Arkansas quarterback will make his transfer decision by May.
By Gary Klein, Times Staff Writer
February 16, 2007

After touring USC in a cart on Thursday, Mitch Mustain headed to lunch with former teammate-turned unofficial recruiting assistant Damian Williams.

Mustain, a quarterback who started eight games last season as a freshman at Arkansas, is contemplating transferring to USC this summer. Williams, who played with Mustain in high school and at Arkansas, transferred to USC in January.

"Just from an aesthetic standpoint I love being here," said Mustain, who visited with Coach Pete Carroll and assistant head coach Steve Sarkisian after arriving on Wednesday. "The business part of it is football and they've got a proven history with Coach Sarkisian developing quarterbacks ? even their backups are successful.

"I think it says a lot about what they have here and the system they have."

Mustain, 6 feet 3 and 205 pounds, enrolled at Arkansas with hopes of duplicating the success he and Williams enjoyed in a no-huddle, wide-open passing attack at Springdale (Ark.) High. Arkansas hired Mustain's high school coach, Gus Malzahn, as offensive coordinator, .............................................Malzahn is now co-offensive coordinator at Tulsa, another place Mustain is considering.

He said he would make his choice by May.

Entire article: http://www.latimes.com/sports/print...oll=la-headlines-pe-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true
 
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