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Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

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Haha. I don't know if this has anything to do with this thread. I really don't have that big of a problem with Vick, and I was supporting him at the beginning of this thread because I thought his passing game had improved. I just think that he is an erratic, inconsistent QB. It is very hard for me to dislike a professional sports team, but sometimes it's hard for me to root for the Falcons, just because there are some fans that can't name a person on the team, other than Michael Vick. I know there are more "real fans" out there than not. So don't think I'm bashing their fans. It's just very difficult for me to understand why people are annointing him as the next big thing. Sure, he is an incredible athlete and playmaker. However, I believe that he needs to prove that he is an effective passer. I thought had, but I was wrong. His QB rating is an abysmal 71.8, and has had 16 turnovers (rushing and passing) to contrast with 19 TD's (rushing and passing). That's definitely not a Pro-Bowler in my book.
 
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What a fucking joke. Popularity contest. That is all the pro bowl is. Joey Porter and Jeff Hartings made the Pro Bowl and they didn't deserve it. Vick gets in is absurd. I am sure you Vick fans think he deserved it but he didn't. Back up your Vick fandom with something to show he should be in the Pro Bowl. You have nothing but excuses for him. He didn't dersive even though 9 of the 16 originally starting QB's in the NFC are out because of injury or benching. Brunell should be in ahead of Vick, 20 TD's, only 8 picks and 3rd in the NFC in QB rating.
 
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crazybuckfan40 said:
Give him some talent around him and watch what he can do. That was against the best players in the AFC keep in mind.
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How many times are you going to say this? Enough with the bullshit excuses. Give elite talent around any QB and they will succeed. You tell me he wins but when he loses you pull every excuse out of your ass to cover up his inept play. He looked great with elite talent but lost against elite from the AFC, that's what your saying. Guess what he didn't win the game, I thought that was the end all to Vick. He gets all the credit from the national media and from Vick fans when he wins but when he loses the entire team minus Vick gets the blame from the national media and Vick fans. Tell me why Vick deserves to be in for play on the field (not popularity or excitement) ahead of Brunell?
 
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BCSBust said:
The only reason Vick made the Pro Bowl was for ratings. Everyone knows that he is an exciting player to watch. That's the only reason he made the Pro Bowl. Do you honestly think that he's had a better season than Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, (Eli Manning?), and Brad Johnson? I don't. Yeah, the only reason he's in is for the ratings.
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Forgot Bledsoe also. He is having a better season. Eli Manning, hell no. A 52.5% completition % with 15 picks. His arm is dead. Duck after duck on Saturday.
 
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Ok guys seriously here we are not getting anywhere with this debate.

You guys knock him b/c he doesnt have great accuracy. I have agreed with you all the way through the thread on that point. Has he shown sign of improvement, he did in the middle of the year, but this book is still open.

You guys give him absolutely no credit for his running ability. Same people on here spouting about how VY sucked b/c he couldnt throw the ball, well it shows that you have to account for this guys running ability and when you do that it leaves holes in the secondary.

I used the playbowl argument to show that he is not a bad qb. I don't know why you guys can't accept that it is hard for a QB to excell when they are getting heavy pressure and the recievers are not doing the job. Not saying Vick hits them in the hands everytime or what have you, but it goes both ways.

I also am not a stats guy. You can't just look at the stats. There are so many things that go into stats, and they don't tell the whole story. Just b/c QB A has more yards passing means jack to me, b/c half of them could be screen passes, and not even tough throws that his recievers turn into big plays. Sometimes stats are a lot of luck. Just like people can look at the San Diego vs. the Colts game and say that Peyton had a bad game b/c of his ints but they went throught the recievers hands and San Diego happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I also think it is funny how during the games that are not on national television this thread was hardly touched, then when he plays on national tv everyone starts bashing him, I know he didnt play good against the Bears and didnt play very well against the Saints, and the Jets game he had 2 ints that should of been caught by his guys that were tipped up and interecepted. Just like the Int against he Bears that Jenkins dropped that landed in the Bears guys arms. There wasnt any mention about the Packers, Tampa, or Miami game when he put up very good stats. Then he had the Thanksgiving day game and these are the numbers that he put up in those four games. Keep in mind he had time to throw in these games.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg1 vAlign=top><TH>CAT</TH><TH>G</TH><TH>Att</TH><TH>Comp</TH><TH>Pct</TH><TH>Yds</TH><TH>YPA</TH><TH>Lg</TH><TH>TD</TH><TH>Int</TH><TH>1st</TH><TH>1rst %</TH><TH>20+</TH><TH>Sac</TH><TH>Rate</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2><TD>NOVEMBER GAMES</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>121</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>62.0</TD><TD>889</TD><TD>7.35</TD><TD>54</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>47</TD><TD>62.7</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>100.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Alge Crumpler said:
"I've done more blocking the past couple weeks than I have all season, but if Mike's getting hit on three-step drops, where do you think his confidence level is?" Crumpler asked. "If Mike's getting hit on seven-man protections, where's his confidence level at? It's got to be everybody working together. Everybody wants to blame the offensive line if there's a passing breakdown but everybody's got something to do with it."
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Now this is coming from their starting Te who is Vicks favorite target. Now is he making excuses or is he telling the truth. THis coming straight from the guy's mouth that will telll you how it is. It is also very hard for Vick to be as successful when his favorite target isnt going out into the route.

For some of you guys that don't understand and think that I am making excuses, the game of football starts up front.
 
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crazybuckfan40 said:
Ok guys seriously here we are not getting anywhere with this debate.

You guys knock him b/c he doesnt have great accuracy. I have agreed with you all the way through the thread on that point. Has he shown sign of improvement, he did in the middle of the year, but this book is still open.

You guys give him absolutely no credit for his running ability. Same people on here spouting about how VY sucked b/c he couldnt throw the ball, well it shows that you have to account for this guys running ability and when you do that it leaves holes in the secondary.

I used the playbowl argument to show that he is not a bad qb. I don't know why you guys can't accept that it is hard for a QB to excell when they are getting heavy pressure and the recievers are not doing the job. Not saying Vick hits them in the hands everytime or what have you, but it goes both ways.

I also am not a stats guy. You can't just look at the stats. There are so many things that go into stats, and they don't tell the whole story. Just b/c QB A has more yards passing means jack to me, b/c half of them could be screen passes, and not even tough throws that his recievers turn into big plays. Sometimes stats are a lot of luck. Just like people can look at the San Diego vs. the Colts game and say that Peyton had a bad game b/c of his ints but they went throught the recievers hands and San Diego happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I also think it is funny how during the games that are not on national television this thread was hardly touched, then when he plays on national tv everyone starts bashing him, I know he didnt play good against the Bears and didnt play very well against the Saints, and the Jets game he had 2 ints that should of been caught by his guys that were tipped up and interecepted. Just like the Int against he Bears that Jenkins dropped that landed in the Bears guys arms. There wasnt any mention about the Packers, Tampa, or Miami game when he put up very good stats. Then he had the Thanksgiving day game and these are the numbers that he put up in those four games. Keep in mind he had time to throw in these games.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg1 vAlign=top><TH>CAT</TH><TH>G</TH><TH>Att</TH><TH>Comp</TH><TH>Pct</TH><TH>Yds</TH><TH>YPA</TH><TH>Lg</TH><TH>TD</TH><TH>Int</TH><TH>1st</TH><TH>1rst %</TH><TH>20+</TH><TH>Sac</TH><TH>Rate</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2><TD>NOVEMBER GAMES</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>121</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>62.0</TD><TD>889</TD><TD>7.35</TD><TD>54</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>47</TD><TD>62.7</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>100.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




Now this is coming from their starting Te who is Vicks favorite target. Now is he making excuses or is he telling the truth. THis coming straight from the guy's mouth that will telll you how it is. It is also very hard for Vick to be as successful when his favorite target isnt going out into the route.

For some of you guys that don't understand and think that I am making excuses, the game of football starts up front.
Click to expand...

Stats aren't everything but I have seen all 5 nationally televised games plus 2 other Falcon games to formulate an opinion on Vick. I have seen enough of Brunell and Bledsoe because they have had games on national televsion and they have been on at 4 PM a lot where I live. I have to say that these two have outplayed Vick this season based on their play alone and when you compare stats it isn't even close. Vick may have had nice run in November but still with those numbers he has 13 TD's, 12 INT's, 54.3 %, 6.34 per attempt, and a 71.8 QB rating. I think some of the problems with the Falcons offensive line has to do with that fact that teams do not respect the throwing ability of Vick at all. I have seen teams just fill the lanes with him back there and get after him. He can not make those touch passes and hit receivers in stride on those short passes used in the Falcon offense. When you make the Falcons one dimensional they are screwed because Vick is a below average passer.
 
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Vick might even have worse numbers than he does now if not for ALL the support he has. He's got one of the best 1-2 duos in the backfield with him in the NFL, now that LJ/Priest aren't together anymore.

If you don't think he's got enough talent around him right now, you're foolish. the O-Line is (was before) above average, his D is good enough, and he's got Michael Jenkins at WR :wink2:.
 
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7 45 33 48 said:
Stats aren't everything but I have seen all 5 nationally televised games plus 2 other Falcon games to formulate an opinion on Vick. I have seen enough of Brunell and Bledsoe because they have had games on national televsion and they have been on at 4 PM a lot where I live. I have to say that these two have outplayed Vick this season based on their play alone and when you compare stats it isn't even close. Vick may have had nice run in November but still with those numbers he has 13 TD's, 12 INT's, 54.3 %, 6.34 per attempt, and a 71.8 QB rating. I think some of the problems with the Falcons offensive line has to do with that fact that teams do not respect the throwing ability of Vick at all. I have seen teams just fill the lanes with him back there and get after him. He can not make those touch passes and hit receivers in stride on those short passes used in the Falcon offense. When you make the Falcons one dimensional they are screwed because Vick is a below average passer.
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All good points, I was just showing that he has shown little improvment.

As for the teams putting 8, 9 in the box, I don't understand why they don't let Vick air it out. I think there are many things that are causing the Falcons to struggle now, and yes Vick is part of that, but some of you guys are just saying off the wall things like there are 26 better QB's and things of that nature. I mean no one said anything when he was doing good.

souL said:
Vick might even have worse numbers than he does now if not for ALL the support he has. He's got one of the best 1-2 duos in the backfield with him in the NFL, now that LJ/Priest aren't together anymore.

If you don't think he's got enough talent around him right now, you're foolish. the O-Line is (was before) above average, his D is good enough, and he's got Michael Jenkins at WR :wink2:
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He has a good number one rb but Duckett has really sucked it up this year. I really don't know why. They have been running their fullback as much as him.

As for talent, his best target is Alge Crumpler and as you saw in my above post he is having to stay in and pass block b/c of the wows of the o-line.

Also by the way the D is not what it was last year, their DE Brady Smith has missed alot of games and they are very weak in the secondary besides Hall.
 
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jimotis4heisman said:
i cant get it to copy and paste but its the headline of cbs.sportsline.com
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9110392
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Will Michael Vick ever be a consistent NFL quarterback?

Pete Prisco
He will in time. But right now he's just not a good enough passer. The Falcons hate when somebody writes or says that, but that is the reality. Vick is an amazing athlete, but would he be a starting quarterback in the NFL if he couldn't run? That's a legitimate question. Vick doesn't seem suited to the West Coast offense. So maybe the Falcons need to reevaluate that. Vick isn't accurate, he doesn't have patience in the pocket and he rarely reads to the third and fourth progression. As he matures, that will be easier for him. Right now, he just can't win games with his passing attack. Is he as good as advertised? No. Not yet. But the kid has the potential to be an elite player. He just has to be better in the pocket. They said the same things about Steve Young early in his career, and he became a Hall of Fame passer. Vick has to hope that happens for him, too. As he gets older, it almost has to happen by necessity. When it does, he'll be a better quarterback.

Clark Judge
He already is. Last year he threw 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. This year he's at 13 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. I don't know how much more consistent you can be than that. If the question is: Will he become an elite NFL quarterback? I think the answer is no. He's too inaccurate. There's no question the guy is exciting, elusive and dangerous with the ball in his hands, but he's feared more for his running than his passing. Keep him in the pocket, as Philadelphia did in last year's conference title game, and you neutralize him. If Vick is to be considered a top-shelf quarterback he must improve his accuracy, and I don't see that happening. He hit 56 percent of his passes last year; he's hit 54 this season. But this is what I like less: He's the league's 16th-ranked quarterback on third downs and its 34th-rated passer in fourth quarters. Case closed.
 
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Clark Judge
He already is. Last year he threw 14 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. This year he's at 13 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. I don't know how much more consistent you can be than that. If the question is: Will he become an elite NFL quarterback? I think the answer is no. He's too inaccurate. There's no question the guy is exciting, elusive and dangerous with the ball in his hands, but he's feared more for his running than his passing. Keep him in the pocket, as Philadelphia did in last year's conference title game, and you neutralize him. If Vick is to be considered a top-shelf quarterback he must improve his accuracy, and I don't see that happening. He hit 56 percent of his passes last year; he's hit 54 this season. But this is what I like less: He's the league's 16th-ranked quarterback on third downs and its 34th-rated passer in fourth quarters. Case closed.
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Bingo.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
 
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