Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[Jaxbuck]

People have trouble accepting what is different.

People also have a hard time accepting total bullshit when they hear it.


I don't think anyone's trying to say Vick is completely worthless, the point is that he's nowhere near as good as the media,or Vick, think he is.


Steve Young trying to tell me Vick can be the greatest QB of all time is a perfect example of the type of hypeoble that make so many dislike Vick so strongly.

 

[7 45 33 48]

People also have a hard time accepting total bullshit when they hear it.


I don't think anyone's trying to say Vick is completely worthless, the point is that he's nowhere near as good as the media,or Vick, think he is.


Steve Young trying to tell me Vick can be the greatest QB of all time is a perfect example of the type of hypeoble that make so many dislike Vick so strongly.

That is exactly the same reasons I dislike Vick so strongly also.

 

[The Man]

People also have a hard time accepting total bullshit when they hear it.


I don't think anyone's trying to say Vick is completely worthless, the point is that he's nowhere near as good as the media,or Vick, think he is.


Steve Young trying to tell me Vick can be the greatest QB of all time is a perfect example of the type of hypeoble that make so many dislike Vick so strongly.

Well blame the media I guess. Just wondering if you guys ever listen to Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio? He says somethings to stir the pot, but man you guys would hate him in regards to Vick.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Well blame the media I guess. Just wondering if you guys ever listen to Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio? He says somethings to stir the pot, but man you guys would hate him in regards to Vick.

Don't listen to sports talk personally, but when Vick gets up to the mike after 1 god damn good passing day in 100 and starts that punk ass shit about not wanting to hear anyone ever question his accuracey again I find it difficult to only blame the media.

Ron Mexico must be latin for overrated asshole.

 

[The Man]

Wouldn't it be Spanish for overrated asshole? J/K

 

[Bucklion]

Brunell has 20 TD's and 14 turnovers this year, Vick has 19 TD's and 16 turnovers. Is that a huge difference? Not to mention the Redskins have the exact same record as the Falcons. Although they are 8-5 when Vick plays, 0-1 without him. I have never seen as many people hate a QB that wins over 60% of his games.

Very few hate him...we're just sick and tired of hearing about him, when there are 15-20 other QBs playing as well as he is. Cunningham didn't get 1/10th of this publicity, and he really did revolutionize the QB position at the time he played. The Michael Vick legend is a complete media creation...he is a decent player, who is certainly fun to watch...but if Steve Young says he's going to be the best QB ever, all that means is that Steve Young thinks he could be better than Steve Young, because he thinks he's the best QB ever.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Finally a little bit of reason in the bast couple pages instead of just total bashing.

To me you can slant your reason to make it however you want to, we could sit here and say Dan Marino doesnt compare to Tom Brady b/c Brady had more superbowl rings.

So in my eyes football comes down to a team game, and the Falcons win with him in there and they lose with him not there. Look at the season before he got there and the season when he was out almost the whole season as examples to this.

Is Vick a great passer? No

Is he the best running QB in the league? Yes

I really can't believe some of you guys on here, some of you, I know not all of you are the first to step to Troy Smith's defense when someone starts knocking on running QB but then harp on Vick. Vick can keep a play alive like no one else in the league. You could have him trappped and he could get out of it and pick up 5 yards for a first down.

I think the reason he gets so much hype has never been b/c of his passing, even know a lot of them people are still optimistic it will get better, the hype comes b/c he is a defensive cordinators nightmare.

So you spread your ends out to keep contain on him, they run with Dunn up the middle, you think you have him sacked but he eludes the rush, Your ends have to stay home on every play and can make a backside pusuit tackle, and that also gives the cutback lane for the running back. Your corners have to cover for a longer time b/c Vick can elude the rush and then find an open reciever.

He is a totally different QB than most QBs in the league. I honestly think if there was a good line in front of him, he would be able to make more plays with his arms, but I don't care who you are you throw better set up than you do on the run.

I also think it is taking Vick a little while to get used to the West coast offense.

I give him about 2 more years and if everything hasnt clicked by then, well then I will be on here saying that something needs to change, but as of right now he is helping his team try and stay in the playoff race and keep in mind it is the toughest division in football, and the two teams that are above them have two of the toughest defenses in the league.

 

[Jaxbuck]

and keep in mind it is the toughest division in football, and the two teams that are above them have two of the toughest defenses in the league.

Dude there is no division in the NFC that you can say is the toughest in the NFL with a straight face. Thats a pretty scary statement if you actually believe it's true.

Put Vick and the falcons in any division of the AFC and they are home for the holidays and the "wins games" theory is completely shot. He's an above average player on a mediocre team in a weak conference.

AFC West
Denver
SD
KC
all better than Atlanta

AFC North
Cinci
Pitt
both waayyy better than Atl

AFC South
Indy
Jax
both better, Indy light years so.

AFC East
NE
what Belichick would do to Vick if they played twice a year is comical.

There's 8 teams CLEARLY better than Atl in the AFC while Miami, Buffalo and Baltimore aren't that much worse.

Vick is 26th out of 30 in QB rating for a sub .500 team in the AFC, hell he's that for a team only 2 games above .500 in the weak ass NFC as it is.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

I really can't believe some of you guys on here, some of you, I know not all of you are the first to step to Troy Smith's defense when someone starts knocking on running QB but then harp on Vick. Vick can keep a play alive like no one else in the league. You could have him trappped and he could get out of it and pick up 5 yards for a first down.

While I can agree with most of your post, I don't think you can compare Vick to Troy Smith right now. At his level that he is playing in right now (college), he is reading defenses and being much more of a leader than Vick could hope to be right now. Yes, he will take off and run on occasion, but TS has proven over and over that he can throw the ball very well, and make pressure throws with the game on the line (as of lately).

But there are other QBs in the NFL that can keep a play alive just as long, and maybe even longer than Vick. I know, for one, Donovan McNabb is probably the best at doing that. He may not be as fast as Vick is, but if you watch him take on a pass rush, he is a nightmare to try to take down. He can juke around guys (at 240 pounds, too), and also outmuscle defensive linemen trying to pull him down. He is also better at passing while on the run, too (watch his 14 second scramble against Dallas last year, where, unlike Vick, he ended up passing at the end of that amazing play).

 

[Buckeye513]

Dude there is no division in the NFC that you can say is the toughest in the NFL with a straight face. Thats a pretty scary statement if you actually believe it's true.

Put Vick and the falcons in any division of the AFC and they are home for the holidays and the "wins games" theory is completely shot. He's an above average player on a mediocre team in a weak conference.

AFC West
Denver
SD
KC
all better than Atlanta

AFC North
Cinci
Pitt
both waayyy better than Atl

AFC South
Indy
Jax
both better, Indy light years so.

AFC East
NE
what Belichick would do to Vick if they played twice a year is comical.

There's 8 teams CLEARLY better than Atl in the AFC while Miami, Buffalo and Baltimore aren't that much worse.

Vick is 26th out of 30 in QB rating for a sub .500 team in the AFC, hell he's that for a team only 2 games above .500 in the weak ass NFC as it is.

I don't know what football you've been watching this year, but the NFC is far from "weak".

8 of the top 15 offenses in the league are NFC teams. (1. Seattle, 7. New York, 9. St. Louis, 10. Arizona, 11. Atlanta, 12. Washington, 14. Philadelphia, 15. Dallas)
8 of the top 15 defenses in the league are NFC teams. (1. Chicago, 2. Tampa Bay, 3. Carolina, 7. Washington, 8. Green Bay, 10. Dallas, 12. Arizona, 14. Atlanta)

Hardly "weak" rankings. The NFC divisions are also alot closer and more competative than the AFC divisions are.

NFC East
New York | 10-4
Washington | 8-6
Dallas | 8-6

NFC South
Carolina | 10-4
Tampa Bay | 9-5
Atlanta | 8-6

NFC North
Chicago | 10-4
Minnesota | 8-6

All of these divisions are still up in the air. Only one NFC team (Seattle) has clinched their division, while three AFC teams (New England, Indianapolis, Cincinatti) have already clinched theirs'. The AFC may have been the better conference in 2004, but 2005 is a different story.

It's also pretty funny how you can just say "team x is better than Atlanta" without backing it up with anything. Or "if Atlanta were in the AFC, they would be under .500". Pretty stupid.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don't know what football you've been watching this year, but the NFC is far from "weak".

8 of the top 15 offenses in the league are NFC teams. (1. Seattle, 7. New York, 9. St. Louis, 10. Arizona, 11. Atlanta, 12. Washington, 14. Philadelphia, 15. Dallas)
8 of the top 15 defenses in the league are NFC teams. (1. Chicago, 2. Tampa Bay, 3. Carolina, 7. Washington, 8. Green Bay, 10. Dallas, 12. Arizona, 14. Atlanta)

Hardly "weak" rankings. The NFC divisions are also alot closer and more competative than the AFC divisions are.

NFC East
New York | 10-4
Washington | 8-6
Dallas | 8-6

NFC South
Carolina | 10-4
Tampa Bay | 9-5
Atlanta | 8-6

NFC North
Chicago | 10-4
Minnesota | 8-6

All of these divisions are still up in the air. Only one NFC team (Seattle) has clinched their division, while three AFC teams (New England, Indianapolis, Cincinatti) have already clinched theirs'. The AFC may have been the better conference in 2004, but 2005 is a different story.

It's also pretty funny how you can just say "team x is better than Atlanta" without backing it up with anything. Or "if Atlanta were in the AFC, they would be under .500". Pretty stupid.

1st of all watch the "pretty stupid" shit. If you wanna get nasty and go for personal insults I can tell your argument is already fucked.

2nd A lot of close division races just means you have a bunch of mediocre teams who can't pull away from each other.

3rd as to why I feel the NFC is so much weaker than the AFC some examples:

10-4 Bears leading the NFC north 3 of the 4 losses are to teams from the AFC north including the Browns. 6 game win streak vs the mighty NFC then gets bitch slapped by Pittsburgh.

8-6 Redskins in the hunt for NFC playoff spot. Lost to all 4 teams they played from the AFC west including Oakland.

By Divison matchups year to date:

NFC east vs AFC west: AFC leads 8-7 with 1 to play.
AFC North vs NFC North: AFC leads 10-4 with 2 to play including Det at Pitt
AFC East vs NFC South: NFC leads 10-6. AFC's worst vs NFC's best and its 10-6.
AFC South vs NFC West: AFC leads 7-6 with 2 NFC teams still to play Indy.

Overall its 31-27 AFC and counting. Not as bad as last year but the AFC is still better.

Then again, I'm pretty fucking stupid and math is real hard for me. Maybe you can enlightne me on how the NFC is actually better.

 

[Buckeye513]

1st of all watch the "pretty stupid" shit. If you wanna get nasty and go for personal insults I can tell your argument is already fucked.

2nd A lot of close division races just means you have a bunch of mediocre teams who can't pull away from each other.

3rd as to why I feel the NFC is so much weaker than the AFC some examples:

10-4 Bears leading the NFC north 3 of the 4 losses are to teams from the AFC north including the Browns. 6 game win streak vs the mighty NFC then gets bitch slapped by Pittsburgh.

8-6 Redskins in the hunt for NFC playoff spot. Lost to all 4 teams they played from the AFC west including Oakland.

By Divison matchups year to date:

NFC east vs AFC west: AFC leads 8-7 with 1 to play.
AFC North vs NFC North: AFC leads 10-4 with 2 to play including Det at Pitt
AFC East vs NFC South: NFC leads 10-6. AFC's worst vs NFC's best and its 10-6.
AFC South vs NFC West: AFC leads 7-6 with 2 NFC teams still to play Indy.

Overall its 31-27 AFC and counting. Not as bad as last year but the AFC is still better.

Then again, I'm pretty fucking stupid and math is real hard for me. Maybe you can enlightne me on how the NFC is actually better.

1st I didn't call you stupid, I called your comments about Atlanta stupid. There's a difference.

2nd Or it means that the NFC is more competative and less top-heavy than the AFC.

3rd 8-6 Kansas City, who split the series against Denver and is in the hunt for a playoff spot, lost to 3 of the 4 NFC East teams.

9-5 San Diego, who just beat the now 13-1 Indianapolis Colts and are in the hunt for a playoff spot, lost to both the Cowboys and the Eagles.

I don't see where this is going. Oh, and Chicago beat one AFC team during their 6-game winning streak.

Maybe you could show me where I said that the NFC was better. I don't think either conference is better than the
other. 31-27 seems pretty even to me.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Dude there is no division in the NFC that you can say is the toughest in the NFL with a straight face. Thats a pretty scary statement if you actually believe it's true.

Put Vick and the falcons in any division of the AFC and they are home for the holidays and the "wins games" theory is completely shot. He's an above average player on a mediocre team in a weak conference.

AFC West
Denver
SD
KC
all better than Atlanta

AFC North
Cinci
Pitt
both waayyy better than Atl

AFC South
Indy
Jax
both better, Indy light years so.

AFC East
NE
what Belichick would do to Vick if they played twice a year is comical.

There's 8 teams CLEARLY better than Atl in the AFC while Miami, Buffalo and Baltimore aren't that much worse.

Vick is 26th out of 30 in QB rating for a sub .500 team in the AFC, hell he's that for a team only 2 games above .500 in the weak ass NFC as it is.

Well I honestly think there are two divisions in the NFC that are right up there at the top. The East and the South are two of the toughest divisions in football.

Can you imagine the East if Mcnabb didnt get hurt in the first game of the season, and Owens didnt act like a fuckin' idiot. Right now they have 3 teams that are playoff worthy and the Eagles could of been one of the top teams if not for the problems I mentioned above.

Then the South, they have two teams capable of getting to the superbowl and one in the Falcons that are probably not going to make the playoffs but are tied for the last spot but don't hold the tiebreaker.

Also wondering how you can just say that these teams are better. If you put ATL in the AFC West which is the best division in the AFC they would be fighting for the top spot. I would put them behind Denver. San Diego and KC are very inconsistent and don't have the defenses to contain Vick like the teams in the NFC south do.

In the North I think that Tampa and Carolina would be some one even with Cincy and Pitt, then there is ATL is way better than Cleveland and Baltimore.

AFC south is not very good besides the Colts. Jacksonville is lucky they don't play a tough schedule. They got four freebies against Tennessee and Houston and one against 49ers who they almost lost too. They also had easy games against St. Louis, Arizona and Cleveland. They did have impressive wins over Pittsuburg and Cincy and Seattle

And don't give me that Bellicheck shit. I know they are 3-1 against the South but ATL didnt have Vick and they lost on a last second fg, and I don't know what happened to Tampa last week, and struggled to beat the Saints at home.

I have never once argued anything about his rating, I know it is low, but when you have the legs of Vick, it isnt always about his rating. In the games he had the highest ratings they lost, b/c the D played bad. Also they beat Miami and Buffalo so I don't see how that argument holds weight.

 

[The Man]

Vick was selected to the 2006 Pro Bowl. Let the discussion begin.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Your corners have to cover for a longer time b/c Vick can elude the rush and then find an open reciever.

Vick can elude the rush, but he has proven time and again that he CANNOT find the open receiver.