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- Thread starter 3yardsandacloud
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Young played against 11 Ohio State defenders, not just Hawk. Hawk has arguably his best game of the year while Young had his worst (or as you put it, a "pretty good" game). Hawk was lights out the whole game, while Young was shut down for over half of it.
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
I agree. Football's a team game. To suggest that just b/c UT beat us and VY led them to the winning TD, VY deserves to be ahead of Hawk in the Heisman race is bad logic. I agree with that VY has a better chance at the Heisman then Hawk right now, but not at all for the reason Habanerobuck stated.
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lol mili, your post looks awfully similar to this one :tongue2:
Vince overcame all of that adversity and led his team to victory, on the road. That was an extremely gutsy performance. He got destroyed hit after hit by our guys, but kept getting up and playing great football.
ESPN is ready to worship Marcus Vick after a 0 TD 3 INT performance b/c he had a good day running the ball against a meager Maryland team. Same thing with Leinart, who has horrendous stats for the last three games but led his team to victories.
The only one close to Vince right now is bush. AJ should get some consideration if he can slow down Minny, NW & scUM in the following games. But it still doesn't match what VY is doing. The kid had 86% completion percentage and 5 tds against a good colorado team. His team has been untouchable outside of the Shoe.
isn't OSU's defense unbelievable? The play of Whitner was critical in that game to keeping us close, among other standout defenders. Your point seems to backfire somewhat, b/c if you surround an all-american with a bunch of other top notch defenders, it's going to be even easier for his team to stop you. VY has a talented line, but his WRs were very green coming into that game, and his star TE didn't bother to show up mentally all game.
Vince overcame all of that adversity and led his team to victory, on the road. That was an extremely gutsy performance. He got destroyed hit after hit by our guys, but kept getting up and playing great football.
ESPN is ready to worship Marcus Vick after a 0 TD 3 INT performance b/c he had a good day running the ball against a meager Maryland team. Same thing with Leinart, who has horrendous stats for the last three games but led his team to victories.
The only one close to Vince right now is bush. AJ should get some consideration if he can slow down Minny, NW & scUM in the following games. But it still doesn't match what VY is doing. The kid had 86% completion percentage and 5 tds against a good colorado team. His team has been untouchable outside of the Shoe.
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HabaneroBuck
Non-Nike Design
You are wrong. They both had a stage. They both performed well. A.J. did everything he could do. Vince did everything he could do. The chips were down and Vince got the drive and the win. Ergo, he is more deserving than Hawk.
All else being equal, what other criteria should one use? There is no quantifiable way to compare a LB with a QB. And you are wrong in saying that Vince has a better chance at the Heisman for any other reason than Texas winning that game. If Texas is 5-1, the discussion is over whether one prefers Bush or Leinart at this point in time. Vince might not be third in the discussion. As it stands now, things are pretty much #1 a), #1 b), and #1 c).
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exactly. Leinart is definitely not the best QB in the nation, and his team has looked shaky. but they've won, so they are still the media darlings.
Had hawk's D won every game, including shutting down a high powered UT and PSU defense, he would be battling for one of the later spots in the heisman race. It doesn't mean he hasn't been good enough, but it has become a "Who is our favorite, not necessarily the best, player that is leading his team to a NC?" award
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On a sidenote, they are showing a surprising amount of intelligence over there, in a thread where all of them disagree with the original poster (who claims AJ is overrated):
AJ Hawk = Overatted [FONT=Verdana,Arial]( [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]1[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial]2[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial]3[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Arial]4[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial] )[/FONT]
Had hawk's D won every game, including shutting down a high powered UT and PSU defense, he would be battling for one of the later spots in the heisman race. It doesn't mean he hasn't been good enough, but it has become a "Who is our favorite, not necessarily the best, player that is leading his team to a NC?" award
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On a sidenote, they are showing a surprising amount of intelligence over there, in a thread where all of them disagree with the original poster (who claims AJ is overrated):
AJ Hawk = Overatted [FONT=Verdana,Arial]( [/FONT]
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I think your point is the one that backfired. Those "green" WRs were the ones that made the big plays of the game (Pittman 33 and 63 yard crossing pattern catches, Sweed 24 yard TD catch), not Young. Both Pittman and Sweed have turned out to be very good WRs despite being in an offense where they're not featured as much (Pittman 16 catches for 410 yards (25.6 ypc) and 3 TDs, and Sweed 15 catches for 210 yards (14.0 ypc) and 3 TDs)...the fact they may have been a bit "green" coming into The Shoe doesn't mean they aren't very talented, as evidenced by their play against us. Plus, Texas' OL is not just "talented", but considered one of the best in the country, so it's not like Young was on a no-talent offense.
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buckeyeboy
Still fortitudinous
Both players did what they could do and VY got the win; therefore he's more deserving? That seems a little lacking. What if on that TD pass to Sweed, Youbouty slips and falls, making it an easy TD and a freak accident? My point is that there are 10 other players on the field that could have stopped Young, and a mistake by any one of them could have led to VY throwing that TD. In light of that, you simply can't use the TD to win the game as evidence against Hawk.
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So what exactly did VY do well in that game, Mili, since he's not allowed to take credit for those big passes? How bout the fact that on his last drive, after a night filled with bruising hits, his passes were crisp and on target, including a gorgeous pass to Sweed vs. our best corner?
This is not a thread debating who is the better player, nor who was the better player in that game. It is a heisman discussion (which is an unusual award), and the fact is Vince's team beat Hawk's team in a game where they faced each other directly (Charles caught two huge passes in the flat, on Hawk's side, on the game winning drive). Hawk was incredible and outperformed Vince, but unbelievable players don't usually make it to NY unless their team has very few losses, which is why Hawk is far behind VY in the race.
This is not a thread debating who is the better player, nor who was the better player in that game. It is a heisman discussion (which is an unusual award), and the fact is Vince's team beat Hawk's team in a game where they faced each other directly (Charles caught two huge passes in the flat, on Hawk's side, on the game winning drive). Hawk was incredible and outperformed Vince, but unbelievable players don't usually make it to NY unless their team has very few losses, which is why Hawk is far behind VY in the race.
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You are the one who's wrong...period. You are wrong for saying that Young deserves it for one drive, especially when you yourself turn right around a few sentences later saying he doesn't deserve it just because he won the game. Talk about contradicting yourself. You are also wrong is saying Hawk is no better than Young becuase there's no criteria in comparing a QB's performance with a LB's. Well then, how do you compare QB's performance with those of WRs or RBs, the other two "usual" Heisman positions? You can't, no ever could, directly compare any dissimilar positions, so you have to go by how well they played their specific position and what impact they had on their team.
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Ok, well one team barely escaped being 3-3 and the other has been destroying teams (except for OSU) and is still undefeated. As a homer I can recognize the significance of what our D did to VY, especially the LBers, but the fact is Hawk's impact has led to two losses at the halfway point. Our defense would still be good without Hawk (obviously he's irreplaceable). Lose VY, and they are completely sunk.
In the heisman voters' eyes, yes.
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