LB A.J. Hawk (2x All-American, Lombardi Trophy, National Champion, Super Bowl Champion)

[MililaniBuckeye]

... but the fact is Hawk's impact has led to two losses at the halfway point.

Wow, that statement is so absolutely staggering fucking stupid my head is spinning. Just how in the fuck has Hawk's performance "led to two losses"? You are soooo lucky that we don't have a "Fucking Dumbass of the Week" medal.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

Ok, well one team barely escaped being 3-3 and the other has been destroying teams (except for OSU) and is still undefeated. As a homer I can recognize the significance of what our D did to VY, especially the LBers, but the fact is Hawk's impact has led to two losses at the halfway point. Our defense would still be good without Hawk (obviously he's irreplaceable). Lose VY, and they are completely sunk.In the heisman voters' eyes, yes.

So because they don't have a backup QB, that makes Vince better than AJ? Take almost any team's starting QB away and they are completely sunk.

 

[martinss01]

All else being equal, what other criteria should one use? There is no quantifiable way to compare a LB with a QB.

you can compair the two very easily actually. who is better at their respective positions? is aj hawk a better lb than vy is a qb? thats actually the basis for the heisman. there is no quantifiable way to compair any two positions on the field outside of the offensive line. and even there its not as straight forward as you might think.

And you are wrong in saying that Vince has a better chance at the Heisman for any other reason than Texas winning that game. If Texas is 5-1, the discussion is over whether one prefers Bush or Leinart at this point in time.

this makes 0 sense. first you say that his chances are not affected in anyway to texas winning that game. then you say if texas had lost he wouldn't be in the equation... so..... which is it?

 

[jwinslow]

So because they don't have a backup QB, that makes Vince better than AJ? Take almost any team's starting QB away and they are completely sunk.

I was saying that OSU can survive without AJ, Texas would have to change their entire approach without VY.

Wow, that statement is so absolutely staggering fucking stupid my head is spinning. Just how in the fuck has Hawk's performance "led to two losses"? You are soooo lucky that we don't have a "Fucking Dumbass of the Week" medal.

Don't change my words, I said Hawk's impact has led to two losses. Hawk plays LB. For OSU. He has a tremendous impact every game. His impact was not enough, and we lost two games.

For the last frickin time, we are arguing a contest called the Heisman. Complete jokes like Weinke and Crouch have won it. Therefore the criteria is not about who is the best player. It is about who is a standout player on a top-ranked team.

Do you disagree with this Mili? I've said over and over again that AJ was better in that game, but the W is what matters in the heisman voting for VY.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

I was saying that OSU can survive without AJ, Texas would have to change their entire approach without VY.

i know this. I'm saying that this is true because Texas doesn't have a backup QB. This can also be said about almost any QB, as they are the most important part to most football teams. Without Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt sucks. Does that make Jay Cutler better than AJ Hawk?

 

[jwinslow]

That's irrelevant. It is merely one criteria which makes VY appear more attractive to the voters, not the end-all for why VY is better. VY has an impact on every single play, AJ usually does, but not always.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

For the last frickin time, we are arguing a contest called the Heisman. Complete jokes like Weinke and Crouch have won it. Therefore the criteria is not about who is the best player. It is about who is a standout player on a top-ranked team.

crouch ran for 3,000 yards and passed for 4,000 in his college days. in 01 he ran for 1100 yards and passed for 1500

he won the davy o brien
walter camp
b12 player of the year
yeah he was a pushover

 

[Zurp]

We can go back and forth on what criteria SHOULD be for Heisman voters. And, for the most part, I agree that the Heisman should be given to the most outstanding player (not simply offense) in college football. But the trophy goes to quarterbacks, running backs, and occasionally receivers. After that, the guy better do something else if he's going to be a legitimate contender. Until Hawk starts kicking field goals or returning kicks, he'll be on the list of "guys who should have been Heisman contenders, but played the wrong position."

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Don't change my words, I said Hawk's impact has led to two losses. Hawk plays LB. For OSU. He has a tremendous impact every game. His impact was not enough, and we lost two games.

For the last frickin time, we are arguing a contest called the Heisman. Complete jokes like Weinke and Crouch have won it. Therefore the criteria is not about who is the best player. It is about who is a standout player on a top-ranked team.

Do you disagree with this Mili? I've said over and over again that AJ was better in that game, but the W is what matters in the heisman voting for VY.

I didn't change your words at all...in fact, I quoted them verbatim. If I get the drift of what you may have intended to say, you meant to say that Hawk's impact didn't prevent the loss. There's a huge difference between someone doing something that leads to or causes something else, and someone doing something that wasn't enough to prevent something else.

No one is saying that the Heisman selection process is just, fair, and always selects the most-deserving winner. What we're arguing is whether or not Hawk, at LB, is worthy of consideration as the most outstanding college football player of 2005...and that's all.

 

[Carmen Ohio]

If we're assuming the Heisman goes to the most publicized offensive game breaker on an undefeated team then there's no point in this discussion. But without even looking at the stats I guarantee you against us Vince Young had his worst night statistically this year, and last year with the possible exception of last year's Oklahoma game. Yes, Texas won the game... Yes Vince Young threw the winning TD, but the dominatinig performance was turned in by AJ Hawk. Watch the tape again...what he didn't do, he influenced. There is a barometer for comparing QB and LB. If LB keys a defensive effort to keep a game against OB's otherwise dominating team in doubt until the last moments, in my book the LB wins. If QB racks up huge numbers despite the presence of LB, then in my book QB wins. Does anybody on the Heisman list have the kind of game they would ordinarily have if AJ was on the field? The Heisman should be about the player... not whether a team will win the NC. BTW we didn't go undefeated when Eddie won it. We know Hawk wouldn't win it but we're talking about Heisman votes... Heisman props... Heisman acknowledgement.

 

[HabaneroBuck]

I think your point is the one that backfired. Those "green" WRs were the ones that made the big plays of the game (Pittman 33 and 63 yard crossing pattern catches, Sweed 24 yard TD catch), not Young.

See, you can't even give Vince credit for being as good as he is. On that long play to Pittman, he had Shlegel bull-rushing him up the middle. He stepped to the side and let all 250 lbs. of Middle Linebacker fall to the ground in a failed attempt to bring him down. THEN, he threw a strike to a wide open Pittman. Most QB's duck for cover in that situation.

You are the one who's wrong...period. You are wrong for saying that Young deserves it for one drive, especially when you yourself turn right around a few sentences later saying he doesn't deserve it just because he won the game. Talk about contradicting yourself.

I actually said, in response to a comment by buckeyeboy:

And you are wrong in saying that Vince has a better chance at the Heisman for any other reason than Texas winning that game.

because buckeyeboy said that Vince might be more deserving for some other reason, but not because Texas won. Another way of saying what I typed might be, "no, Vince only has a good shot at winning the Heisman BECAUSE Texas won the matchup. That is the primary reason that he is still in the running, because he won that game on a national stage and his team is undefeated." Now, I will grant that QB's and RB's are always going to have a better shot at the Heisman because of their positions, but my position is clearly that Vince is one of the front-runners and deserves to be ahead of A.J. on the basis of the game in Columbus alone. I mean, facts are facts...QB's can influence whether a game is won or lost a lot more than outside linebackers.

I'm not saying that Young deserves the award for "one drive." He deserves it because winning games should be a tie-breaker in the minds of anyone who is debating who is the best performer in college football. Kosar and Byars might have been better in 1984 than Flutie. Wasn't going to happen for them after the BC-Miami game on CBS, though.

Eddie George won the award because the Bucks were 10-0 and #2 going into the Mich. game. Pace got all of that hype because the Bucks were, again, #2 and undefeated going in to Michigan. You get hype because you cause your team to WIN. If you want to argue that individual awards are stupid in a team game, I will respect that. But the thread is about the Heisman.

 

[jwinslow]

crouch ran for 3,000 yards and passed for 4,000 in his college days. in 01 he ran for 1100 yards and passed for 1500

Look at Eric Crouch's stat sheet, he was a pretty poor QB and an average RB:

<table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Date[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Opponent[/FONT]</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]W / L[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Score[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Att[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Com[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Pct[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Yards[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Td[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Int[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Car[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Yards[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Td[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Avg[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Aug. 25[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Texas Christian (Pigskin Classic)[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 21-7[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 18[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 55.6[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 151[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 24[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 69[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2.9[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 1[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Troy State[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 42-14[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 15[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 8[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 53.3[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 109[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 15[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 48[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3.2[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 8[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Notre Dame[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 27-10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 9[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 6[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 66.7[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 88[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 14[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 31[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2.2[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 15[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Rice[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 48-3[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 11[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 9[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 81.8[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 165[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 12[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 97[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 8.1[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 29[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Missouri[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 36-3[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 14[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 8[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 57.1[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 120[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 17[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 191[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 11.2[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 6[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Iowa State[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 48-14[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 14[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 71.4[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 110[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 15[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 104[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 4[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 6.9[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 13[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Baylor[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 48-7[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 9[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 4[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 44.4[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 47[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 18[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 132[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 7.3[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 20[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Texas Tech[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 41-31[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 22[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 45.5[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 196[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 21[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 105[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 5.0[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 27[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oklahoma[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 20-10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 18[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 10[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 55.5[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 102[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 13[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 21[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1.6[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 3[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Kansas[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 51-7[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 24[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 14[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 58.3[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 164[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 13[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 49[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3.8[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 10[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Kansas State[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] W[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 31-21[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 7[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 3[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 42.9[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 60[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 23[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 106[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 1[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 4.6[/FONT]</td></tr><tr bgcolor="#dddddd"><td nowrap="nowrap">[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 23[/FONT]</td><td>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Colorado[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] L[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 36-62[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 28[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 13[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 46.4[/FONT]</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 198[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 0[/FONT]</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 18[/FONT]</td><td align="right">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 162[/FONT]</td><td align="center">[FONT=arial, helvetica] 2[/FONT]</td></tr></tbody> </table>

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Hawk is clearly among the top players at any position in CFB. His heisman chances are zero. Just the way the game is played I'm affraid, and no amount of campaigning is gonna change that.

The ONLY way I could see a LB getting the Heisman is if there was literally no remarkable offensive players and the LB who'd win was the most dominant force the game has ever seen. I'm talking like 21 tackles a game and 15 interceptions.

 

[scooter1369]

Look at Eric Crouch's stat sheet, he was a pretty poor QB and an average RB:

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#cccccc><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Date[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Opponent[/FONT]</TD><TD noWrap align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W / L[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Score[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Att[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Com[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Pct[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Yards[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Td[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Int[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Car[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Yards[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Td[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Avg[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Aug. 25[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Texas Christian (Pigskin Classic)[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]21-7[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]18[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]55.6[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]151[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]24[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]69[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2.9[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 1[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Troy State[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]42-14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]15[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]8[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]53.3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]109[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]15[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]48[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3.2[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 8[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Notre Dame[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]27-10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]9[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]6[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]66.7[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]88[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]31[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2.2[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 15[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Rice[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]48-3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]11[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]9[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]81.8[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]165[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]12[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]97[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]8.1[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Sept. 29[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Missouri[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]36-3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]8[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]57.1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]120[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]17[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]191[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]11.2[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 6[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Iowa State[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]48-14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]71.4[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]110[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]15[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]104[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]4[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]6.9[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 13[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Baylor[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]48-7[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]9[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]4[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]44.4[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]47[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]18[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]132[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]7.3[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 20[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Texas Tech[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]41-31[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]22[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]45.5[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]196[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]21[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]105[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]5.0[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oct. 27[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Oklahoma[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]20-10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]18[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]10[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]55.5[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]102[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]13[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]21[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1.6[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 3[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Kansas[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]51-7[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]24[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]14[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]58.3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]164[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]13[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]49[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3.8[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 10[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Kansas State[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]W[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]31-21[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]7[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]3[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]42.9[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]60[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]23[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]106[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]1[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]4.6[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD noWrap>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Nov. 23[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=arial, helvetica]Colorado[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]L[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]36-62[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]28[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]13[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]46.4[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]198[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]0[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle bgColor=#cccccc>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]18[/FONT]</TD><TD align=right>[FONT=arial, helvetica]162[/FONT]</TD><TD align=middle>[FONT=arial, helvetica]2[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Seven games he threw more INT's than he did TD's. And he won the Heisman... What a joke.

 

[martinss01]

I was saying that OSU can survive without AJ, Texas would have to change their entire approach without VY.

that i disagree with. replace hawk with kerr and i think you very quickly change the way tOSU plays defense. both teams would "survive" without hawk and young respectively. neither would be able to keep their identity if they were suddenly no longer in the lineup.