Lance Armstrong

[redguard117]

To be fair, quite literally anyone professionally competing in this sport has/is currently/will be doping.

Lance was simply that much better than everyone else, even after doping leveled the playing field.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

At least he raised some money for cancer out of all this...???

He did, over $500 Million. Thats legendary in the human race. Screw what the USDA thinks.

 

[jlb1705]

Im sorry but what evidence do they have exactly? An email from a known cheater and a "promise" to place his other teammates on the stand against him?

If they were going to use his teammates against him, this would have come out already. They better produce some serious evidence that can negate Armstrong's years of successful blood tests.

Effing witch hunt based on the public perception of someone great in a sport Americans aren't known for.

They have something on him that has made him take this step. You don't fight it this long and then back out all of a sudden unless they finally have you dead to rights.

 

[dragurd]

Yeah strike me as one who doesn't get the point of this at all. They are judge and jury so nothing he could do against it short of lawsuit. But what exactly does stripping his titles at this point accomplish especially by an agency that quit literally didn't exist when he won most of them from what i gather.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

They have something on him that has made him take this step. You don't fight it this long and then back out all of a sudden unless they finally have you dead to rights.

I dont know if I buy into that man. He has fought off the public opinion, doubters, haters, and charges for YEARS now. He has passed how many blood tests? He has had how much factual evidence presented in front of him? None.

Its a witch hunt bro. If you got it, show it. They are the USDA with nothing to hide or gain from hiding any evidence.

 

[jlb1705]

Stripping the titles is like the NCAA vacating wins.

In this case, what are they going to do, have the victories handed to the likes of Alex Zulle, Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso? I know the USADA doesn't care about those guys and have no control over what happens after the titles are vacated, but surely they see the irony in that, right?

 

[SEREbuckeye]

Stripping the titles is like the NCAA vacating wins.

In this case, what are they going to do, hand the various victories to the likes of Alex Zulle, Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso? I know the USADA doesn't care about those guys, but surely they see the irony in that, right?

In a sense, yes it is like stripping wins. The difference is that the NCAA doesn't strip wins until the issue is resolved with the evidence in hand, and acknowledged and factual by BOTH sides.

The NCAA doesn't go around making accusations against a school and then stripping wins because they have some super-secret "evidence" they refuse to reveal.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

Fox Sports.com

Lance Armstrong statement

If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA's process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and ? once and for all ? put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

 

[jlb1705]

I dont know if I buy into that man. He has fought off the public opinion, doubters, haters, and charges for YEARS now. He has passed how many blood tests? He has had how much factual evidence presented in front of him? None.

If all of that is true, then what's your explanation for why he's backing down? Innocent people don't stop fighting after this long, in the face of supposedly zero evidence.

Its a witch hunt bro. If you got it, show it. They are the USDA with nothing to hide or gain from hiding any evidence.

Well, apparently Armstrong (in spite of his public statement) is more convinced of the veracity of the USADA's claims than you are. I'd say he'd be in a position to know what the case is against him, even if all the specific evidence hasn't been made public yet. In fact, I'd be willing to be that's the very reason he's backing down - he doesn't want this stuff made public in a way that would cause additional harm to his foundation and other concerns.

 

[3074326]

They have something on him that has made him take this step. You don't fight it this long and then back out all of a sudden unless they finally have you dead to rights.

I tend to agree with this. Figured it was inevitable anyways.

Think about it - he was DOMINANT in a sport full of cheaters. Not just consistently good, but unbelievably dominant. I mean unbelievable quite literally. That being said, it's become pretty clear that everyone was doing it, so he still deserves credit there.

His accomplishments off the cycle are far more valuable and important than his accomplishments on the cycle. Nothing is going to tarnish that.

 

[Mike80]

If all of that is true, then what's your explanation for why he's backing down? Innocent people don't stop fighting after this long, in the face of supposedly zero evidence.

Well, apparently Armstrong is more convinced of the veracity of the USADA's claims than you are. I'd say he'd be in a position to know what the case is against him, even if all the specific evidence hasn't been made public yet. In fact, I'd be willing to be that's the very reason he's backing down - he doesn't want this stuff made public in a way that would cause additional harm to his foundation and other concerns.

I agree to a point, but that's not what Armstrong is saying and the USADA won't show it's hand now that he's folded either.

And it was a witch-hunt too, let's not deny it. I don't know why Armstrong gave up in the end, that makes no sense. the USADA is trying to make itself look legit in a dying sport (not the action, but everyone's interest in it at least for the Tour), in a country that barely knows any other cyclists other than maybe Armstrong and Floyd Landis (and maybe Greg LeMond if they followed sports 20 years ago). This is basically worthless.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

If all of that is true, then what's your explanation for why he's backing down? Innocent people don't stop fighting after this long, in the face of supposedly zero evidence.

It may be odd that he is backing down but its not too off when you think about it. The courts agreed that there are flaws in the USDA's argument and that there is little evidence. The problem is that after fighting off the witch hunt, the courts still allowed this crap to continue. If he went to court and tried to defend himself against both public opinion as well as the USDA and somehow loses, he will then be a deemed a cheater via law - something that can't be reversed. At least by backing out he can save face. Also, going to court is expensive, the USDA has deep pockets that Lance doesnt have.

Sorry man, but the courts put innocent people in jail all the time.


Hey, you want me to admit he doped and is a cheater, I will - please show me the evidence.

 

[OH10]

Im sorry but what evidence do they have exactly? An email from a known cheater and a "promise" to place his other teammates on the stand against him?

If they were going to use his teammates against him, this would have come out already. They better produce some serious evidence that can negate Armstrong's years of successful blood tests.

Effing witch hunt based on the public perception of someone great in a sport Americans aren't known for.

The witnesses have been identified: Landis, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, just to name a few. There are also eyewitness accounts of Lance admitting to a doctor PED use.

And Armstong's defense is that these people are cheaters who can't be trusted. But they were his teammates. They were on the same doping regimine. You think you're going to have Mother Theresa as a witness to this type of activity? No. You're going to have other cheaters and co-conspirators.

 

[OH10]

It may be odd that he is backing down but its not too off when you think about it. The courts agreed that there are flaws in the USDA's argument and that there is little evidence. The problem is that after fighting off the witch hunt, the courts still allowed this crap to continue. If he went to court and tried to defend himself against both public opinion as well as the USDA and somehow loses, he will then be a deemed a cheater via law - something that can't be reversed. At least by backing out he can save face. Also, going to court is expensive, the USDA has deep pockets that Lance doesnt have.

Sorry man, but the courts put innocent people in jail all the time.


Hey man, you want me to admit he doped and is a cheater, I will - please show me the evidence.

The Court never agreed that there was little evidence. The case was dismissed in short time and no evidence was ever presented in those proceedings because it didn't belong there. The judge even lectured Armstrong about his publicity-seeking waste of the court's time the first time it was dismissed.

Armstrong knew how bad it would get if his accusers presented their testimony in the USADA arbritration proceedings. This was the chance he had to have the evidence against him come out. He chose against it because he knew the outcome. He can call it a witch-hunt all he wants, but that's a telltale sign he had a lot to want to hide that he would rather be stripped of his titles than have the testimony get out there.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

The witnesses have been identified: Landis, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, just to name a few. There are also eyewitness accounts of Lance admitting to a doctor PED use.

And Armstong's defense is that these people are cheaters who can't be trusted. But they were his teammates. They were on the same doping regimine. You think you're going to have Mother Theresa as a witness to this type of activity? No. You're going to have other cheaters and co-conspirators.

I read your post and all you have is speculation of he-said, she-said stuff. No, they weren't on the same doping regime - thats pure speculation.

Got any failed blood test or doctor admission?