Lance Armstrong

[OH10]

To be fair, quite literally anyone professionally competing in this sport has/is currently/will be doping.

Lance was simply that much better than everyone else, even after doping leveled the playing field.

The best cheater is still a cheater.

And quite honestly, that's just further circumstantial evidence that he was cheating. It would be non-sensical to believe that the one guy dominating a sport full of cheaters is the only clean athlete in the field. That would be like a guy bring a knife to a 55-man gun fight and coming out on top.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

The Court never agreed that there was little evidence. The case was dismissed in short time and no evidence was ever presented in those proceedings because it didn't belong there. The judge even lectured Armstrong about his publicity-seeking waste of the court's time the first time it was dismissed.

Odd, not what I have been reading. Ive seen that the court acknowledged lack of evidence but allowed the preceding.

Armstrong knew how bad it would get if his accusers presented their testimony in the USADA arbritration proceedings.

Sweet bor, more SPECULATION. You know this as fact? You talk to Lance?

This was the chance he had to have the evidence against him come out. He chose against it because he knew the outcome. He can call it a witch-hunt all he wants, but that's a telltale sign he had a lot to want to hide that he would rather be stripped of his titles than have the testimony get out there.

This was his shining moment or the moment in which the USDA could get some cheaters on stage to point fingers and use the public opinion against him? How do you know what he had to hide, or are you speculating?

 

[SEREbuckeye]

It would be non-sensical to believe that the one guy dominating a sport full of cheaters is the only clean athlete in the field. That would be like a guy bring a knife to a 55-man gun fight and coming out on top.

Its guys like you with ZERO evidence that perpetuate which hunts based on water cooler talk.


Please just admit that you don't have anything that proves he cheated. You talk to his doctor? You have any failed drug tests?

 

[3074326]

I read your post and all you have is speculation of he-said, she-said stuff. No, they weren't on the same doping regime - thats pure speculation.

Got any failed blood test or doctor admission?

Here's the proof - doing what Armstrong is doing does nothing but hurt him. The only thing that could hurt him more would be facing the allegations and having them be proven true. An innocent man doesn't just stop defending himself against such reputation-destroying allegations. He has too much to lose. The dude has done a ridiculous amount of good for the world, I understand the crusade to defend him. He was dominant in a sport full of cheaters. That should've been evidence enough. This just puts the nail in the coffin.

It sucks, but it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Damage control.

 

[OH10]

I read your post and all you have is speculation of he-said, she-said stuff. No, they weren't on the same doping regime - thats pure speculation.

Got any failed blood test or doctor admission?

USADA says its case is based, in part, on blood samples from 2009 and 2010. Two of Armstrong's former teammates have said he tested positive in the early 2000s but bribes prevented them from being reported.

It's not he said-she said. It's THEY said, he denies.

The witnesses have first-hand accounts of Armstrong using EPO. I could buy one, maybe two, of them outright lying about it. But to argue that they are ALL lying is a level of denial only folks in Happy Valley could understand.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

USADA says its case is based, in part, on blood samples from 2009 and 2010.

Ohh, did he fail those test?

Two of Armstrong's former teammates have said he tested positive in the early 2000s but bribes prevented them from being reported.

Oh, cool more speculation by you on he-said, she-said stuff. Cool.

It's not he said-she said. It's THEY said, he denies.

Sorry man, "he-said / he said" stuff, my bad, forgot there were no women involved. I could say someone I know is a murderer, does it make it fact just because I know the person? lol

The witnesses have first-hand accounts of Armstrong using EPO. I could buy one, maybe two, of them outright lying about it. But to argue that they are ALL lying is a level of denial only folks in Happy Valley could understand.

Ohhh, gotcha - cheaters don't dont lie. Forgot.

 

[3074326]

Ohh, didnt he fail those test?



Oh, cool more speculation by you on he-said, she-said stuff. Cool.



Sorry man, "he-said / he said" stuff, my bad, forgot there were no women involved. I could say someone I know is a murderer, does it make it fact just because I know the person? lol



Ohhh, gotcha - cheaters don't dont lie. Forgot.

There's enough smoke from the public evidence that it appears a volcano is raging at the bottom of it. At what point does it become ridiculous to defend against all of the fire?

Apparently now, according to Lance. And saying "cheaters don't lie" isn't a ringing endorsement for Armstrong. I don't know man, I just think believing he was clean in that sport is being extremely naive. Hate to say it, because I want(ed) to like the guy. I did like him for a long time, actually. Still respect the hell out of him for his accomplishments on and off the bike.

 

[OH10]

Odd, not what I have been reading. Ive seen that the court acknowledged lack of evidence but allowed the preceding.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...publicity-seeking-lawsuit-132542361--oly.html

"This court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong's desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification of Defendants by sifting through eighty mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of material relevant to his claims. Contrary to Armstrong's apparent belief, pleadings filed in the United States District Courts are not press releases, internet blogs, or pieces of investigative journalism. [...] The bulk of these paragraphs contain 'allegations' that are wholly irrelevant to Armstrong's claims ? and which, the Court must presume, were included solely to increase media coverage of the case, and to incite public opinion against Defendants."

Sweet bor, more SPECULATION. You know this as fact? You talk to Lance?

Reads like something on BWI.

This was his shining moment or the moment in which the USDA could get some cheaters on stage to point fingers and use the public opinion against him? How do you know what he had to hide, or are you speculating?

One can only speculate. He had nothing to gain by dismissing.

Its guys like you with ZERO evidence that perpetuate which hunts based on water cooler talk.

You can say the evidence isn't convincing to you. Not sure how you could not be convinced or at least admit that it is more likely than not that he used. But you can't say there is "ZERO" evidence. Look up the statements from his former teammates, connections to shady doctors, dominance of a sport full of cheaters. You may not be impressed by the quality of the evidence, but it most assuredly isn't "ZERO."

 

[AKAK]

This is a joke.

Apparently... there is no statute of limitations?

Uggh... who are these USADA assclowns anyway...

Here are my thoughts...

Do I think Lance used PED's?

Yes.

Do I particularly care?

No.

Look... its like baseball (and I'll admit I'm in the minority here) but, even in baseball you have shit that wasn't against the rules or even illegal to use in the US until '98. I don't give a fuck that McGwire hit 70 dingers anymore than I care there was a dead ball in the 'teens. Its not even an "everyone is on the juice argument" it just is what it is. Maris was a drunk, Rose was a gambling cheat (and I think his situation IS inforgivable), Cobb was a racist... dude in the 60's were popping speed. So was my dad to stay up to study, so he says.

There is nothing to be gained by taking tour victories from Armstrong (other than giving them to dopers that... ummm. got caught, thanks jlb, for reminding us) I think Ulrich was a wonderful rider, too.

I'm not making excuses for any of them, but, you know, if the procedure is to test and catch them, and they didnt get caught (the didn't test baseball players at all.. so, who the fuck you gonna blame here? is it cheating if its not against the rules? Is EPO gettting you banned before they ban it?) then fuck you and your shitty testing.

500 times the guy got tested, and 7 years later they come up with this shit?

I agree its all crappy... I don't watch cycling very much anymore because of it... and as jlb pointed out... the culture sucks (and its full of euros). BUt don't give me this level playing field garbage in retrospect... if you want to make a difference, catch the guys cheating, I don't know... NOW?

IF they're "vacating" - vacate the history of the sport since the invention of cafe au lait. Seriously.

I'm sorry about the cynicism. But, in a way, we ask people to compete in sports. We ask them to win. We want to see greatness, and unfortunately our ability to insure fairness is behind the cheating, but, so it goes.

We ask for integrity but encourage victory. I wish we could have both too... but, one bad apple, I guess.

I'll like cycling less now... and, you know, I mostly watched because of all those pretty helicopter shots of castles and the history. I guess I'll go ride my bike myself next july. Maybe I'll chig some andro first. Whatever... I'm fat and I chain smoke, so, no more than 25 miles for me.

 

[OH10]

Ohh, did he fail those test?

Probably. Can't imagine why the USADA would cite them as evidence if he passed. And Lance isn't giving it a chance to come out because he dropped the issue.

Sorry man, "he-said / he said" stuff, my bad, forgot there were no women involved. I could say someone I know is a murderer, does it make it fact just because I know the person? lol

And your word alone may not have much value. But if someone backed up your statement. And then another person. And another person.

Ohhh, gotcha - cheaters don't dont lie. Forgot.

Cheaters don't generally do it openly in front of non-cheaters or co-conspirators. Who did you expect to present testimony?

Crack dealer and addicts don't just walk into church on Sunday and engage in their illegal behavior in front of the parishioners. They do it amongst each other.

 

[BB73]

This is a joke.

Apparently... there is no statute of limitations?

Uggh... who are these USADA assclowns anyway...

Here are my thoughts...

Do I think Lance used PED's?

Yes.

Do I particularly care?

No.

Look... its like baseball (and I'll admit I'm in the minority here) but, even in baseball you have shit that wasn't against the rules or even illegal to use in the US until '98. I don't give a fuck that McGwire hit 70 dingers anymore than I care there was a dead ball in the 'teens. Its not even an "everyone is on the juice argument" it just is what it is. Maris was a drunk, Rose was a gambling cheat (and I think his situation IS inforgivable), Cobb was a racist... dude in the 60's were popping speed. So was my dad to stay up to study, so he says.

There is nothing to be gained by taking tour victories from Armstrong (other than giving them to dopers that... ummm. got caught, thanks jlb, for reminding us) I think Ulrich was a wonderful rider, too.

I'm not making excuses for any of them, but, you know, if the procedure is to test and catch them, and they didnt get caught (the didn't test baseball players at all.. so, who the fuck you gonna blame here? is it cheating if its not against the rules? Is EPO gettting you banned before they ban it?) then fuck you and your shitty testing.

500 times the guy got tested, and 7 years later they come up with this shit?

I agree its all crappy... I don't watch cycling very much anymore because of it... and as jlb pointed out... the culture sucks (and its full of euros). BUt don't give me this level playing field garbage in retrospect... if you want to make a difference, catch the guys cheating, I don't know... NOW?

IF they're "vacating" - vacate the history of the sport since the invention of cafe au lait. Seriously.

I'm sorry about the cynicism. But, in a way, we ask people to compete in sports. We ask them to win. We want to see greatness, and unfortunately our ability to insure fairness is behind the cheating, but, so it goes.

We ask for integrity but encourage victory. I wish we could have both too... but, one bad apple, I guess.

I'll like cycling less now... and, you know, I mostly watched because of all those pretty helicopter shots of castles and the history. I guess I'll go ride my bike myself next july. Maybe I'll chig some andro first. Whatever... I'm fat and I chain smoke, so, no more than 25 miles for me.

If you want to compare cycling's cheaters to baseball's cheaters, let's compare Lance to Sammy Sosa, just to rile up bkb.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

Probably. Can't imagine why the USADA would cite them as evidence if he passed. And Lance isn't giving it a chance to come out because he dropped the issue.

You REALLY think that a failed test wouldn't have come out in some court appearance or even made public in the last 3 YEARS? lol. Im assuming it was that the test was "suspect blah blah blah...but came back positive or negative"

Besides who the hell cares what he took in 2009, 2010 in relation to his 7 titles?! Thats like the military caring if I smoke pot after Im retired and out of the Air Force - they wont.

And your word alone may not have much value. But if someone backed up your statement. And then another person. And another person.

This is classic man. If I got together 5 of my friends who had some sort of ill-will against someone and accused that person of something, does it make it true because its 6 vs 1?

We Buckeye lovers were so quick to defend Coach Tressel in the early 2000s when Clarett and his croney's came out blasting OSU for "cheating".

What did we say about Mo during that time: "Take the source for granted", "dont listen to them, they are bitter for their failed success", "is there any PROOF of this cheating other than hear-say?"

Man, we were quick to defend a Buckeye against haters with a vendetta as well as bad public opinion, but now that it is a non-Buckeye all hear-say must be true.

 

[AKAK]

If you want to compare cycling's cheaters to baseball's cheaters, let's compare Lance to Sammy Sosa, just to rile up bkb.

Oh, feel free to fify it for me at your leisure.

Seriously I didn't care that much about that, stats don't live in a vacuum. And I don't see Usain Bolt as greater than Lewis or Lewis greater Owens just because of the clock. They were/are all great. I loved '98 when it happened, the fun I had watching it isn't particularly diminished in retrospect... oddly, it a lot of ways the cheapening might be on the fact that the pitchers were juicing too, so you had more 99 mph fastballs turned around by juiced up monsters. Just an era that is part of the sport to me, really. Just more energy in the equation. No one is going to convince me on the other hand that a Ruth 60 dinger season or a Joe Jackson 24 Hr season before that is less impressive. Or, the '99 year (I think, I'm HAMMERED) year that Pedro Martinez had... juice or not.

 

[AKAK]

Probably. Can't imagine why the USADA would cite them as evidence if he passed. And Lance isn't giving it a chance to come out because he dropped the issue.



And your word alone may not have much value. But if someone backed up your statement. And then another person. And another person.



Cheaters don't generally do it openly in front of non-cheaters or co-conspirators. Who did you expect to present testimony?

Crack dealer and addicts don't just walk into church on Sunday and engage in their illegal behavior in front of the parishioners. They do it amongst each other.

You REALLY think that a failed test wouldn't have come out in some court appearance or even made public in the last 3 YEARS? lol. Im assuming it was that the test was "suspect blah blah blah...but came back positive or negative"

Besides who the hell cares what he took in 2009, 2010 in relation to his 7 titles?! Thats like the military caring if I smoke pot after Im retired and out of the Air Force - they wont.



This is classic man. We Buckeye lovers were so quick to defend Coach Tressel in the early 2000s when Clarett and his croney's came out blasting OSU for "cheating".

What did we say about Mo during that time: "Take the source for granted", "dont listen to them, they are bitter for their failed success", "is there any PROOF of this cheating other than hear-say?"

Man, we were quick to defend a Buckeye against haters with a vendetta as well as bad public opinion, but now that it is a non-Buckeye all hear-say must be true.

You guys can take this to PM's now.

Thanks

- The management.

 

[Taosman]

FACT. Cheating is rampant at all levels of sports right now.
That being said;
What is the point of going after retired athletes if it's not pure politics?
It's a waste of time and money and nothing gets achieved if the methods of cheating are not found out.