Kiyaunta Goodwin (OL Kentucky, transfer to Florida)

[buchtelgrad04]

Maybe we should ask Carman, Latham, Leigh or Goodwin?

No one knows the reason why but the difference in recruiting of tackles vs interior guys has been markedly different.

Carman wanted to get away for college. Just like some kids want to stay home for college. How is that the fault of the position coach? And he was replaced by a higher ranked recruit.

Latham was a casualty of COVID.

Leigh was never a realistic option.

Goodwin has other factors going in his recruitment as well.

When you actually examine why those kids didn’t or aren’t coming to OSU, it seems to be a bit more than just “Stud sucks recruiting OT’s.”

 

[Jaxbuck]

No my point was we shouldn't pretend "what could have been" with Carmen. Yes it's a miss by all intent but in the end no it really wasn't.

Stud has landed star OTs, OGs and Cs. I am baffled by this really because of where this unit use to be under Warriner and particularly under Bollman. Yeah he's not landing everyone but I mean come on guys he's landing Harry Miller, Parris Johnson, Jackson, Ben Christman, NPF (*), Wyatt Davis, Josh Myers, Wypler and Vemahi (both 95s).

That doesn't even include the 3 stars of which Fryar appears to be a rock star and then Jonah Jackson as a transfer.

This OL room is a legit 2 deep at every position. Now I don't doubt theres OL coaches better but considering where we use to be? Sign me up as a stud fan.

I'm a Stud fan overall too but don't think it's unreasonable to question what's going on with recruiting his first choice at OT the past few years. Being an improvement over his predecessor is table stakes. I'm applying the same kind of bar people applied to Tony Alford. This is Ohio State, you have all the recruiting advantages you could ask for. The competition is Bama. The bar for excellence is set by Bama. Go beat them on the recruiting trail.

Alford had a bad cycle, missed on some top targets, caught heat and rebounded in spectacular fashion. Stud needs to do the same with a high profile tackle or two.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Carman wanted to get away for college. Just like some kids want to stay home for college. How is that the fault of the position coach? And he was replaced by a higher ranked recruit.

Latham was a casualty of COVID.

Leigh was never a realistic option.

Goodwin has other factors going in his recruitment as well.

When you actually examine why those kids didn’t or aren’t coming to OSU, it seems to be a bit more than just “Stud sucks recruiting OT’s.”

Likewise, 4 in 5 years seems to be a bit more than just "bad luck".

 

[pnuts34]

No my point was we shouldn't pretend "what could have been" with Carmen. Yes it's a miss by all intent but in the end no it really wasn't.

Stud has landed star OTs, OGs and Cs. I am baffled by this really because of where this unit use to be under Warriner and particularly under Bollman. Yeah he's not landing everyone but I mean come on guys he's landing Harry Miller, Parris Johnson, Jackson, Ben Christman, NPF (*), Wyatt Davis, Josh Myers, Wypler and Vemahi (both 95s).

That doesn't even include the 3 stars of which Fryar appears to be a rock star and then Jonah Jackson as a transfer.

This OL room is a legit 2 deep at every position. Now I don't doubt theres OL coaches better but considering where we use to be? Sign me up as a stud fan.

And again, your examples are almost all IOL, few OTs. And OT is the position that arguably most important on the OL. And we've seen over the years that IOL can only play on the inside, yet OTs can play inside and outside.

If you can recruit then you can recruit...or does it take a different skill to recruit an OT?

So you're telling me if a WR coach missed out on his top outside WR targets but got most of the slot guys he pursued, you'd consider him a great recruiter? People were after LJsr a few years ago because he was recruiting DEs at such a high rate. But couldn't get top DTs(he has since turned that around). But if a DL coach can only recruit one part of the DL at an elite level, that is a problem. We see in the NFL draft every year OTs getting drafted in early rounds. Because an OT(especially LT) can be a cornerstone of an OL, and sometimes even an offense. A OC or OG is a great complement, but not a cornerstone.
Maybe Day can get involved more in the OT recruiting, because we're going to have some issues down the line if it's not corrected.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

I just have a hard time believing someone can be “good” at recruiting part of his position group and “bad” at another.

It’s just not logical.

I think all this criticism on Stud being bad at OT recruiting is suffering from bad data (too small of sample size, etc)

I mean this is under Goodwin’s thread who also spurned other power houses and yet he’s an example of why Stud can’t recruit elite OTs? It’s just not logical especially considering the interior recruiting has been excellent.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I just have a hard time believing someone can be “good” at recruiting part of his position group and “bad” at another.

It’s just not logical.

I think all this criticism on Stud being bad at OT recruiting is suffering from bad data (too small of sample size, etc)

I mean this is under Goodwin’s thread who also spurned other power houses and yet he’s an example of why Stud can’t recruit elite OTs? It’s just not logical especially considering the interior recruiting has been excellent.

It isn't logical and yet here we are. That's the point of the whole conversation isn't it? None of us do know, or ever will know, the "why". All we can do is speculate and very clearly see a potential problem down the road if it persists.

As far as sample sizes go, you are never going to get to a statistically significant sample so it's a moot point. You have the 4 names I've given in the span of a couple of years and I would also add NPF to the what is going on with OT recruiting discussion because Urban and Schiano had to go pull that one out of left field after Carman went to Clemson. So there are 5 names to consider on the negative side of the ledger and only one (Paris Johnson) on the positive side of the ledger in terms of 5 star OT recruiting under Stud.

1 good/5 bad. I just can't dismiss the five as statistically meaningless and point to the one as proof of my theory. That's a bit disingenuous.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

It isn't logical and yet here we are. That's the point of the whole conversation isn't it? None of us do know, or ever will know, the "why". All we can do is speculate and very clearly see a potential problem down the road if it persists.

As far as sample sizes go, you are never going to get to a statistically significant sample so it's a moot point. You have the 4 names I've given in the span of a couple of years and I would also add NPF to the what is going on with OT recruiting discussion because Urban and Schiano had to go pull that one out of left field after Carman went to Clemson. So there are 5 names to consider on the negative side of the ledger and only one (Paris Johnson) on the positive side of the ledger in terms of 5 star OT recruiting under Stud.

1 good/5 bad. I just can't dismiss the five as statistically meaningless and point to the one as proof of my theory. That's a bit disingenuous.

Agree to disagree if your point is “Stud can’t recruit”

And recruiting is an important component but so is identifying and developing talent and he’s done pretty well there.

You guys also realize how rare a true lily elite dancing bear OT is right?


I just think it’s important to look at the talent on the field and I’ve been pleased with that. Will it continue without landing great OT prospects? Of course not.

But I’ll also say regarding that.....should we discuss the fact that Munford was the #28 OT in his class? And yet he’s a multi year starter at tOSU.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

But I’ll also say regarding that.....should we discuss the fact that Munford was the #28 OT in his class? And yet he’s a multi year starter at tOSU.

This is where I am with it. There are only like one or two sure-fire studs at OT each year. Everybody else should be considered projects. As long as the development is where it needs to be, everything will work itself out.

 

[Jaxbuck]

This is where I am with it. There are only like one or two sure-fire studs at OT each year. Everybody else should be considered projects. As long as the development is where it needs to be, everything will work itself out.

Agreed. I just don't think it's optimal at a place like Ohio State to be so reliant on developing projects. A balance is needed. He's lite on the dancing bear side of the equation.

 

[Oh8ch]

Puzzled by the questioning of Studs recruiting. The battles he is losing are battles we didn't even fight in years past. I randomly jumped in at 2012 and from then through 2015 our highest rated OL was ranked #5 at their position.

Stud has brought in Davis, Meyer, Jackson, Johnson and Petit-Frere who are all either #1 or #2.

Last year was one of the best OL in school history and this year may be better. We supposedly have a problem recruiting OTs, but Johnson is playing guard because he can't win a spot on the outside. That in itself should deter a kid like Godwin who wants to play from day one.

 

[Thump]

Can we lock this thing or clean out the crap?

The kid made a decision that was best for him.

We would all wish the same for our own children.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Can we lock this thing or clean out the crap?

The kid made a decision that was best for him.

We would all wish the same for our own children.

It's a legit recruiting conversation. At one point we tried to move it there or Stud's thread, I forget which. It kept getting dragged back over here.

 

[pnuts34]

Puzzled by the questioning of Studs recruiting. The battles he is losing are battles we didn't even fight in years past. I randomly jumped in at 2012 and from then through 2015 our highest rated OL was ranked #5 at their position.

Stud has brought in Davis, Meyer, Jackson, Johnson and Petit-Frere who are all either #1 or #2.

Last year was one of the best OL in school history and this year may be better. We supposedly have a problem recruiting OTs, but Johnson is playing guard because he can't win a spot on the outside. That in itself should deter a kid like Godwin who wants to play from day one.

So what are we holding our teams standard to be now? Aw shucks at least we play in big games and 5stars know where OSU is on a map? Or are we moving into the future of wanting to win NCs and not being content with just B1G titles and beating scUM? At this point, Bama and Clemson are the biggest thorn in OSU's side, and getting to the mountain top, we need to win the OT battles. Because Bama sure is, and they're not seeming to be happy with a 3star project if they lose out on a 5star OT. We shouldn't be holding on to the past Tressel days and use that as a barometer for today and the future. Because tbh, Tressel and his ways wouldn't last in the current elite CFB landscape

 

[Redhawk]

Shouldn't most of this be in another thread?

 

[pnuts34]

This is where I am with it. There are only like one or two sure-fire studs at OT each year. Everybody else should be considered projects. As long as the development is where it needs to be, everything will work itself out.

Not even close to being accurate. A 4star from a school like IMG, Aledo, Moeller, etc isn’t the same as getting a 3star from a rural school. You can’t seriously believe that 4star Thayer Mulford when he came to OSU was in the same boat as Grant Toutant. Yes, you can say pretty much every kid going to college on a D1 scholarship is a project,but some come better prepared than others. A Toutant can have success, but he shouldn’t be where your class or OL is hanging its hat on.

Agree to disagree if your point is “Stud can’t recruit”

And recruiting is an important component but so is identifying and developing talent and he’s done pretty well there.

You guys also realize how rare a true lily elite dancing bear OT is right?


I just think it’s important to look at the talent on the field and I’ve been pleased with that. Will it continue without landing great OT prospects? Of course not.

But I’ll also say regarding that.....should we discuss the fact that Munford was the #28 OT in his class? And yet he’s a multi year starter at tOSU.

I like your optimism, but you have to admit in some way that there is a worry when Stud strikes out on so many Plan A OTs, and then we are supposed to be as excited about a 3star project. Our national rival at this point is as important as our in conference rivals. We are mentioned nationally among the top 3 yearly, and the only way to remain in that convo is to get top OTs. I’m not seeing too many 3star projects in the Bama recruiting classes. And if you’re wondering why I keep mentioning Bama and no one else, it’s because they’re the only team that really matters next toClemson. Sorry, but winning the B1G isn’t what it once was, all it means is that it’s a step to the real title. And let’s be honest, the B1G doesn’t offer OSU the most competition anymore