King bumps his gums on the pickle

[jwinslow]

They had no defense, nothing like Texas, Florida or OU. They had to throw all game.

Actually, there were a number of notre dame games when they abandoned the run far too much according to fans and analysts alike.

If your defense is getting smoked, the last thing they need is their offense to leave the field in a hurry without clock-chewing plays and drives. Ask Donovan Warren about that.

The fact that they threw so much, often times into 8 man coverage and he only threw 4 INTs says a lot.

If they were throwing into 8 men coverage, then their OL issues are greatly lessened.

He played an entire season without playing a single top defense. That had as much to do with his rapid transformation as his own ability.

As a sophomore, he played a lot more tough defenses, unlike the bowl opponent in Hawaii. This year, he got to play bad defenses virtually all year long.


He had top-5 recruiting talent taking on a Big East level schedule.

 

[schwab]

So are you going to give an example or just come in here making ridiculous, know it all statements?

I picked this post to ding, over a whole host of other deserving ones, as you may have noticed, but I....

instead of clicking on "disapprove" I typed extra r's for durrrrrrr...

and I repped this dude.

Cleanup on aisle durrrrr?? Can someone please counteract my error?

 

[AKAK]

I picked this post to ding, over a whole host of other deserving ones, as you may have noticed, but I....

instead of clicking on "disapprove" I typed extra r's for durrrrrrr...

and I repped this dude.

Cleanup on aisle durrrrr?? Can someone please counteract my error?

No, but... I will call you a dumbass.

 

[schwab]

No, but... I will call you a dumbass.

Word, I blew my chance

BTW, if someone with rubes decides to neg a bunch of folks on here, does the double negative give you greenies??

 

[hatehineygate]

When you draft a corner, he can be your 2nd or 3rd corner, or help you at nickelback or safety.But at top 10 money he is not worth it. I get that you can play upwards of 4 corners, but at top ten money you are looking for a lockdown player, not a nickel(Rolle) When you draft a top-10 quarterback, he and his agent expect to be starting within 1-3 years. You have to handle them with kid gloves and might never get their confidence/attitude restored after yanking them for failing.

QBs are a much bigger boom/bust choice than corner, sure that QB can lead you to glory, but if he fails his position is the true franchise killer, not cornerback.Very true, there are tons of QB busts.

When was the last time you heard experts talking about how a top-10 CB pick ruined a dynasty?
1) No, there haven't been more QBs that made it.True, but there are more CBs on the field. Drafting a QB is putting down future time in developing him.

Rivers, Eli, Carson & Ryan... Sanchez is too soon to tell.

If you extend it to 1997, you get 6 QBs, since by your standards Vick would be a player the Falcons wouldn't draft again.Agree, I wont sit here and say teams would draft Russell and Vick again. But that goes to show the value of the QB. There are a limited number of them each year, Brady Quinn was valued by the Browns because that was an extremely weak class. Savage had to take him because he was the last possible franchise QB on the board and they couldnt go into the next year with what they had. No one knew Anderson was going to go big the first half of the year.
QBs have washed out more than CBs. The willingness to gamble for QBs & DTs doesn't change the trends that they are more risky.Agree, very risky, see above
QBs have been known to get a more expensive rookie contract than other positions, including corner.

Not true, the rookie contracts are slotted by draft position. They may hold out and idiot owners give them the money, but ultimatately they dont start commanding more money until they get an extension.


Very solid points, I think it comes down to a teams needs. Teams like Buffalo and Cleveland will value Bradford and Tebow or whoever more because of need. They are more likely to reach.

 

[hatehineygate]

For the guys saying they will never root for the Browns again, why?

Are you in favor of going into this season with Delhomme as the starter and possibly not landing a real QB next year? I dont like Clausen for the same reasons people stated already, but after all the terrible picks the Browns have made why would this one be the final straw? I would love to get Bradford or Clausen just for the fact that there is something to build around. Going into next season with 8TDs to 18 INTs (with a much better team) dead armed Delhomme is suicide. I would love to have another option, but at this point I dont see it working out for us any other way.

 

[jwinslow]

Clausen is a 20-40ish level talent, imo.

The only reason he is getting green room chatter is because the other franchise qb prospect stayed at Arkansas... so you have to find someone after Bradford to evaluate.
If you can't get Bradford or mallett, you're better off improving the rest and getting by with a solid player until you can find the right qb.

Urgency is the worst reason to reach.

 

[NFBuck]

Clausen is a 20-40ish level talent, imo.

The only reason he is getting green room chatter is because the other franchise qb prospect stayed at Arkansas... so you have to find someone after Bradford to evaluate.
If you can't get Bradford or mallett, you're better off improving the rest and getting by with a solid player until you can find the right qb.

Urgency is the worst reason to reach.

...and one of the foundations of his argument against going CB in the top-10. His hypocracy is hilarious. If they're gonna draft a qb this year, I'd prefer Colt McCoy (and not in the top-10 either). Clausen built up his resume the same way Brady did, by operating in a passing offense full of very good receiving targets. I've never seen anything out of him that would indicate he's worthy of going top-10. 1st round? Sure, probably. Not top-10.

I remain convinced that this is king rhabuf.

 

[Buckeneye]

Urgency is the worst reason to reach.

Ding ding ding!

I'd prefer to suffer through a season of Delhomme @ QB and wait for somebody like Ryan Mallet next year as opposed to taking the (most likely) bust scenerio that awaits Clausen as this year's 2nd rated QB.

I see these turds like Derek Anderson, Feeley and Seneca Wallace getting picked up before Troy even gets anything. WTF?

Seneca Wallace is a WR playing QB; and imho does a damn fine job for being out of place. Bitch all you want about not getting Troy (lord knows I have) but I won't completely disagree with Holmgren not getting him. He took the guy that's had meaningful NFL minutes under his system and produced.

Don't knock on Wallace, he does all that he is asked to do playing QB
and is a very hard worker. I admire the passion he brings to both positions.

So are you going to give an example or just come in here making ridiculous, know it all statements?

Nah, I'd much prefer the know it-all statements route...


That said. Bryant is a diva in the wings - I dont want that (nor does Mangini) in the locker room. Now its possible that our environment could
be very beneficial to his development. If there's anything good I can say about our players and staff its that we have some great character in this organization. However I still rather not take the chance, when adversity hits people usually revert to their most familiar of personalities, something tells me Dez happens to be a douchebag deep down.


As for the Golden Boy Clausen, just ... No. Bottom line, I don't even need to produce a reason, nor will I attempt to give you one. No, absolutely not and should the Browns draft him I'm pretty sure my deep fan alligience will be shaken so bad I'd feel the need to cut all emotional ties with this team.


edit: Almost forgot, since apparently I'm "Mr. Know-it-all" - do you have a rebuttal about Earl Thomas being 180lbs and the proof otherwise? Or should we
keep this running joke along until its final leg?

The word 'Douche' comes to mind when I click on this thread now.

 

[BayBuck]

I dont like this QB class and I never said they were awesome, but if your team needs a QB like the Browns and there are two legit options this year and maybe two next year their value goes up. If the Bills dont take a QB this year, good luck taking a chance on landing one next year. What will they do if they dont get one within the next two years? That is my point.

So take Clausen because there's not going to be a better option for a couple years at least? One, that's desperation talking; two, well, that's just stupidity talking. There's going to be another Clausen if you need to take a top-10 QB next year, that much I'm pretty sure of.

 

[hatehineygate]

Ding ding ding!

I'd prefer to suffer through a season of Delhomme @ QB and wait for somebody like Ryan Mallet next year as opposed to taking the (most likely) bust scenerio that awaits Clausen as this year's 2nd rated QB.






edit: Almost forgot, since apparently I'm "Mr. Know-it-all" - do you have a rebuttal about Earl Thomas being 180lbs and the proof otherwise? Or should we
keep this running joke along until its final leg?

The word 'Douche' comes to mind when I click on this thread now.

Earl Thomas weighed 180lbs during the season, he did a good job training for the combine and got his weight up. You can consider him 200lbs, but that is false weight he brought to the combine and it is very unlikely he will keep that weight in his rookie year. Most of the safeties in the NFL are 200-205. I like Thomas as a player, but the idea of bringing in a guy, in a hard nosed division, isnt appealing to me.

The other stuff about Clausen and Bryant being d-bags, that is like your opinion man. You guys ask me for facts and you offer your opinions in rebuttle. From the things I have read and heard Bryant was a pretty decent guy, he got caught up in a bad situation and paid the price. There havent been any other incidents with him to my knowledge. I dont really care what you think of me, I just want to talk some football. But you can not honestly get on my case for not giving facts and then offer up your "Clausen, no I am not even going to give reasons......" Not looking to fight, just giving you what I see.

So take Clausen because there's not going to be a better option for a couple years at least? One, that's desperation talking; two, well, that's just stupidity talking. There's going to be another Clausen if you need to take a top-10 QB next year, that much I'm pretty sure of.

I can see that argument and I used to agree with it, but you cant pass on a guy in hopes of getting another guy the next year. It never works out. Its hard to project what Bradford will do if the Rams are going to take him, but in my opinion they are kicking themselves for passing on Matt Ryan. Now they are in a situation where they have to take a QB in a down class, if they pass they will be in the same situation next year.

 

[Buckeneye]

but that is false weight he brought to the combine.

You're right, because weights reported from teams themselves are highly accurate and constantly updated ... and the combine weights are just for shits and gigs.


He checked in the combine @ 208lbs. So your telling me that in the 45 days from the BCS title game to the 2010 combine he gained damn near 30lbs?

Keep in mind that's 45 days starting from the night of Jan. 10th immediately after Texas' loss to (fuckin) Bama. As in, no downtime, no day's off...nothing.

Hell, every source I've seen has him pegged at 197lbs during the season. Even then 200+ is ideal for your typical NFL safety and he's not that far off it seems. I'm sure once he gets into an NFL workout routine there's still a few more pounds that could easily go on his frame.


Like I said. Berry isn't available? - Trade down, take Thomas and it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[hatehineygate]

You're right, because weights reported from teams themselves are highly accurate and constantly updated ... and the combine weights are just for [censored]s and gigs.


He checked in the combine @ 208lbs. So your telling me that in the 45 days from the BCS title game to the 2010 combine he gained damn near 30lbs?

Keep in mind that's 45 days starting from the night of Jan. 10th immediately after Texas' loss to ([censored]in) Bama. As in, no downtime, no day's off...nothing.

Hell, every source I've seen has him pegged at 197lbs during the season. Even then 200+ is ideal for your typical NFL safety and he's not that far off it seems. I'm sure once he gets into an NFL workout routine there's still a few more pounds that could easily go on his frame.


Like I said. Berry isn't available? - Trade down, take Thomas and it wouldn't bother me at all.

Sounds like a plan to me.

The things I read from profootballweekly had him at 185lbs, that is where I was getting my info.

 

[Piney]

Someone better tell this guy to back his opinions up............

I do... I just have a life and like dropping bombs then coming back the next day to clean it up...

Not sure what you are getting at with regards to Clausen playing in a pro style offense. I mean, he is going to be playing in a pro style offense in the NFL. There is a reason teams dont favor spread QBs, they dont learn the real skills that make QBs. Try to compare Clausen's accuracy to Tebows or Russells.

And for the guy that called Clausen a Quinn V2, they are completely different players. I am curious as to why you think they are the same(other than being"D-bags" which Kiper said teams love Clausen's attitude) Clausen has a big time arm and is about as accurate as I have seen a college kid in a few years.

So how are Clausen and Quinn completely different players? Both players played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weiss. Both played for teams that had no defense and were forced to pass alot. Oh yeah... if anything Quinn was BETTER at Notre Dame than Claussen at Notre Dame.

Here are the facts:

2004 - 54.1% 2,586 yards, 17TDs 10 INTs (215.5 yards per game)
2005 - 64.9% 3,919 yards, 32 TDs 7 INTs (326.6)
2006 - 61.9% 3,426 yards, 37 TDs 7 INTs (263.5)

2007 - 56.3% 1,254 yards 7 TDs 6 INTs (125.4)
2008 - 60.9% 3,172 yards, 25TDs 17 INTs (244)
2009 - 68% 3,722 yards, 28 TDs 4 INTs (310.2)

Also the 2009 Notre Dame schedule was considered VERY weak. Also Claussen was able to throw to Michael Floyd & Golden Tate who are NFL WRs. Now consider the NFL WRs that Brady Quinn threw to in college.... Oh yeah... forgot, his #1 target is on the Cubs.

And remember... Quinn was considered VERY accurate at Notre Dame too.

For the guys saying they will never root for the Browns again, why?

Are you in favor of going into this season with Delhomme as the starter and possibly not landing a real QB next year? I dont like Clausen for the same reasons people stated already, but after all the terrible picks the Browns have made why would this one be the final straw? I would love to get Bradford or Clausen just for the fact that there is something to build around. Going into next season with 8TDs to 18 INTs (with a much better team) dead armed Delhomme is suicide. I would love to have another option, but at this point I dont see it working out for us any other way.

First off I doubt they would 'never' root for the Browns again... they would just be wishing for him to get injured like every Browns QB since 1999.

Regarding Delhomme... I don't care who the QB is this year. This is a transition year. Delhomme to me is a decent place holder for this year, and who is to say Seneca Wallace won't start? But really... are the Browns going to the Super Bowl next year? Even if we had Joe Montana would we be a Super Bowl threat? Nope... cuz we have so many other holes on this team.

If you follow Holmgren's history, he picks QBs later in the draft and develops them. What this does it puts less pressure on that QB to play right away and lets him learn the system. So what makes you think Holmgren is going to change his way of thinking?

But back to the #7 pick. I do agree with you on one point... I like Berry too. Haden was my #1 choice until he ran poorly at the combine. But really he is still the better choice over Claussen & Bryant. You know I don't like Claussen, and I actually like Bryant. But he just isn't the right fit for the Browns. (and yes... I am leaving that open ended, so just deal with it)

 

[hatehineygate]

Quinn needed his WRs to do the work down field, Clasuen put the ball right on the money. Quinn lacked the accuracy Jimmy has. I know they went to the same school and had the same coach, but other than that there is no possible way anyone can say they are the same player. Are Sam Bradford and Jason White the same player? Are Circle K and Troy Smith the same player? They played at the same school and had the same coach.



Comparing Quinn's SR numbers to Clausen's JR numbers dont work either. Looking at the rate that Clausen improved, that is pretty intriguing. And Clausen did play better pass defenses than Quinn did, like I said the stats are on the NCAA website.

My issue with taking a QB later and waiting years for Holmgren to develope is that if that guy doesnt work out(a guy that is not ranked highly even in a bad QB year) we are back in the same spot we are always in, rebuilding and 4 years away.