King bumps his gums on the pickle

[jwinslow]

And while you are adding that and not reading this. I am not here to do your leg work. If you are going to tell me that I cant expect Clausen to not make mistakes,

why dont you show me where I said he wasnt. I am not here to do your leg work. If you are going to have an argument, do your own digging.

So apparently we're having a pre-school fight.

King/hatehineygate: It's rare because I say so.

Me: That's not an argument, back it up with something.

King/hate: No, you can't make me, you gum-flapping hack. la-la-la-la

 

[hatehineygate]

Just say NO to Claussen... feels like another Ryan Leaf with less talent.

Really I do not want ANY QB in the 1st round... none of them warrant it. Now, I actually like a few QBs that can be had in the 3rd-5th round area. I feel confident that is the way Holmgren will go as that is his preferred method of picking QBs.

WR??? Didn't we just pick 2 guys in the 2nd round last year? And this year is not a good crop of WRs in the 1st round. We just have to let the young guys we have grow up a bit as young WRs normally take 2-3 years to get ready anyway.

What the Browns need to draft is defense, defense and more defense. Secondary help, our LBs still suck and we need DL depth.

Someone better tell this guy to back his opinions up............


JWinlow, I make the argument and you refuse to answer it. Would the Falcons make the same pick?

Why are you comparing a pro style QB to spread guys, when you know there is a huge advantage for spread guys.

 

[jwinslow]

JWinlow, I make the argument and you refuse to answer it.

I've answered that question in about seven different ways. I'm tired of answering very slight modifications of the same question, particularly when you have routinely dodged direct points from me and others about how CBs aren't as risky as QBs & DTs when it comes to the draft.

Why are you comparing a pro style QB to spread guys, when you know there is a huge advantage for spread guys.

There's also a huge advantage for a guy like Clausen who has the entire offense built around him for three years compared to other programs that have a more balanced attack.

Is Clausen's offense more impressive than Tebow's? Sure, but it has it's advantages as well.

Clausen's numbers aren't as eye-dropping when you look at who they played. They were good but not great.

 

[exhawg]

It pretty simple, there are two real QBs this year and Bradford will be gone. Missing out on Clausen means we go one full season with Delhomme at QB and we throw our hat into the Ryan Mallett contest. There will be like 4-5 teams that want Mallett and if we dont get him that is two years with Delhomme at QB and another crap class of QBs. Clausen went 28/4 in a pro style offense with out a real running game or line. He played hurt all year and missed Rudolph or Floyd throughout the year. I dont know this for a fact, but Kiper was saying Clausen really only threw 2 INTs that were on him. When is the last time a JR went 28/4?

Dez Bryant after trading back only because we are good at OL/DL and no one else in that range really fills a need. Bryant and Tate are better than the next teir of WRs and we need WR help. Not sold on any of the RBs and I am not a fan of taking them in the first.

Clausen just seems like Quinn Part 2 to me and I want to stay away from that. From the little bit I know about him he seems like a douche like Quinn. So as I said a few years ago when Quinn was on the board if the Browns use their first round pick on a ND qb I'm done. I let Quinn slide because they used their first round pick on the guy I wanted and that trade ended up being a good value except for Quinn not living up to his billing. Who's to say they don't pick a qb in the 3rd+ round that ends up being a stud.

 

[BayBuck]

Someone better tell this guy to back his opinions up.............

it's for you, bro

 

[jwinslow]

The only time Clausen faced a decent pass D, he struggled. When Michigan is a top-5 defense on your schedule, you know you've played a horrendous lineup.

Clausen's numbers aren't as eye-dropping when you look at who they played. They were good but not great.

Not many quarterbacks play for a pass happy offense against this many bad teams.

Pass defenses faced by Clausen:

119- Nevada - 300 yds 4 td 0 int
115- Wash St- 268 yds 2 td 0 int
112- Mich St - 300 yds 2 td 0 int
110- Stanford- 340 yds 5 td 0 int
93 - Washing - 422 yds 2 td 1 int
88 - Connect - 329 yds 2 td 0 int
71 - Bost Col - 246 yds 2 td 0 int
67 - Michigan - 336 yds 3 td 0 int
50 - Navy..... - 452 yds 2 td 1 int
49 - Pittsburg - 283 yds 1 td 1 int
48 - USC...... - 260 yds 2 td 0 int
37 - Purdue.. - q171 yds 1 td 1 int

See what I did there? I backed up my own argument, I didn't force you to do the legwork to figure out whether it was accurate.

 

[hatehineygate]

I've answered that question in about seven different ways. I'm tired of answering very slight modifications of the same question, particularly when you have routinely dodged direct points from me and others about how CBs aren't as risky as QBs & DTs when it comes to the draft.
There's also a huge advantage for a guy like Clausen who has the entire offense built around him for three years compared to other programs that have a more balanced attack.

Is Clausen's offense more impressive than Tebow's? Sure, but it has it's advantages as well.

Clausen's numbers aren't as eye-dropping when you look at who they played. They were good but not great.

You provided a list of maybe 4 corners that were taken in the top 10 that were worthy. We didnt agree on people like Pac Man and D Hall, because ultimately I am sure neither the Titans or Falcons would make those picks again.

Not sure what you are getting at with regards to Clausen playing in a pro style offense. I mean, he is going to be playing in a pro style offense in the NFL. There is a reason teams dont favor spread QBs, they dont learn the real skills that make QBs. Try to compare Clausen's accuracy to Tebows or Russells.

And for the guy that called Clausen a Quinn V2, they are completely different players. I am curious as to why you think they are the same(other than being"D-bags" which Kiper said teams love Clausen's attitude) Clausen has a big time arm and is about as accurate as I have seen a college kid in a few years.

 

[hatehineygate]

The only time Clausen faced a decent pass D, he struggled. When Michigan is a top-5 defense on your schedule, you know you've played a horrendous lineup.
Not many quarterbacks play for a pass happy offense against this many bad teams.

Pass defenses faced by Clausen:

119- Nevada - 300 yds 4 td 0 int
115- Wash St- 268 yds 2 td 0 int
112- Mich St - 300 yds 2 td 0 int
110- Stanford- 340 yds 5 td 0 int
93 - Washing - 422 yds 2 td 1 int
88 - Connect - 329 yds 2 td 0 int
71 - Bost Col - 246 yds 2 td 0 int
67 - Michigan - 336 yds 3 td 0 int
50 - Navy..... - 452 yds 2 td 1 int
49 - Pittsburg - 283 yds 1 td 1 int
48 - USC...... - 260 yds 2 td 0 int
37 - Purdue.. - q171 yds 1 td 1 int

See what I did there? I backed up my own argument, I didn't force you to do the legwork to figure out whether it was accurate.

Those are better defenses than the ones Bradford played in 2008. Its one thing to be pass happy, quite a different story when it is Clausen and Tate VS the world. ND had a terrible o line and no running game.

Compare his supporting cast to Tebow, Bradfords and McCoys.

 

[jlb1705]

other than being"D-bags" which Kiper said teams love

Well, at least you got that right. Historically speaking, the Browns love them some D-bags.

 

[jwinslow]

Those are better defenses than the ones Bradford played in 2008

Says who? Your imagination or some actual statistics to back it up?

You're probably right (save for Florida), I'm just tired of arguing your side and mine. It's getting ridiculous at this point.

Its one thing to be pass happy, quite a different story when it is Clausen and Tate VS the world.

He had the two best receivers in america for 7 of the 12 games. Floyd caught 795 yds & 9 tds in 1/2 a season, and was a lock for about 100 yds & at least 1 score.
He had a huge mismatch at TE with Rudolph, who was there most of the year.
This characterization of Clausen against the world sounds like he was playing for Northern Iowa or Tulsa. He had great talent around him.

ND had a terrible o line

Terrible compared to USC's defensive talent? Maybe. Terrible to take on the rest of those 3rd-5th tier opponents? Nope. ANd yes, Michigan's defensive talent is 3rd tier at best.

and no running game.

Allen averaged 4.8, 6.6, 5.0, 3.3, 4.3, 4.7, 5.5 & 4.4

The 4 times he got 20 carries, he ran for 139, 115, 98 & 106. The other games he never received more than 15 touches.

In the 4 games he missed, Hughes went for:
15 att 68 yds 4.8 ypc 1 td
24 att 131 yds 5.5 ypc 1 td
07 att 20 yds 2.9 ypc 1 td
13 att 74 yds 5.7 ypc 0 td

Like I said, pass happy. They could have established more of a running game, but Weis chose to be a finesse passing team.

 

[BayBuck]

Compare his supporting cast to Tebow, Bradfords and McCoys.

Golden Tate could sneak into the first round this year, and Michael Floyd seems destined for a future first round selection as well, and come to think of it Rudolph could be too. I'd take his receivers (at full health) over Texas and Florida's for sure.

I think it's hilarious how you think top-10 CBs are franchise-killers, but somehow reaching for a top-10 QB purely out of need is better--never mind the higher price tag and at least equal chance of busting. But frankly, I hope the Browns do take your bro Clausen, since then I'd be guaranteed the Bills won't take him as a desperation move in a weak year for high-end QBs.

 

[Bleed S & G]

3 reasons NOT to draft his punk ass..

 

[hatehineygate]

Says who? Your imagination or some actual statistics to back it up?
The NCAA website will show you that the the best defense Bradford faced was TCU. The rest of the defenses were ranked in the 70-100 range in passing eff. and yards allowed. ND didnt have anyone in the top 10(like TCU) but they faced teams that avg around 75th ranking compared to OU's 80, with ND facing four teams in the 30-40th ranking.
You're probably right (save for Florida), I'm just tired of arguing your side and mine. It's getting ridiculous at this point.
He had the two best receivers in america for 7 of the 12 games. Floyd caught 795 yds & 9 tds in 1/2 a season, and was a lock for about 100 yds & at least 1 score.
He had a huge mismatch at TE with Rudolph, who was there most of the year.
This characterization of Clausen against the world sounds like he was playing for Northern Iowa or Tulsa. He had great talent around him.
Terrible compared to USC's defensive talent? Maybe. Terrible to take on the rest of those 3rd-5th tier opponents? Nope. ANd yes, Michigan's
defensive talent is 3rd tier at best.
-Clausen lit up everyone he faced, not sure what else you wanted him to do.
-I never said it was Clausen against the world, I said Clausen and Tate. In an earlier post I aknowledged he had Tate and Floyd/Rudolph for portions of the year. There will be one linemen taken from the 3 years Clausen played. Bradford will have four drafted. ND had no line.
Allen averaged 4.8, 6.6, 5.0, 3.3, 4.3, 4.7, 5.5 & 4.4

The 4 times he got 20 carries, he ran for 139, 115, 98 & 106. The other games he never received more than 15 touches.

In the 4 games he missed, Hughes went for:
15 att 68 yds 4.8 ypc 1 td
24 att 131 yds 5.5 ypc 1 td
07 att 20 yds 2.9 ypc 1 td
13 att 74 yds 5.7 ypc 0 td

Like I said, pass happy. They could have established more of a running game, but Weis chose to be a finesse passing team.

They had no defense, nothing like Texas, Florida or OU. They had to throw all game. The fact that they threw so much, often times into 8 man coverage and he only threw 4 INTs says a lot.

Golden Tate could sneak into the first round this year, and Michael Floyd seems destined for a future first round selection as well, and come to think of it Rudolph could be too. I'd take his receivers (at full health) over Texas and Florida's for sure.

I think it's hilarious how you think top-10 CBs are franchise-killers, but somehow reaching for a top-10 QB purely out of need is better--never mind the higher price tag and at least equal chance of busting. But frankly, I hope the Browns do take your bro Clausen, since then I'd be guaranteed the Bills won't take him as a desperation move in a weak year for high-end QBs.

There have been 4-6 corners taken in the top ten over the last 10 years that were worth the pick. There are more QBs that made it. There may have been more taken, but it is the premier position so more weight is placed on QB. They are not more expensive than a CB taken in the same range. I dont like this QB class and I never said they were awesome, but if your team needs a QB like the Browns and there are two legit options this year and maybe two next year their value goes up. If the Bills dont take a QB this year, good luck taking a chance on landing one next year. What will they do if they dont get one within the next two years? That is my point.

Well, at least you got that right. Historically speaking, the Browns love them some D-bags.

That they do, I am not happy with the way they have drafted.

 

[jwinslow]

When you draft a corner, he can be your 2nd or 3rd corner, or help you at nickelback or safety. When you draft a top-10 quarterback, he and his agent expect to be starting within 1-3 years. You have to handle them with kid gloves and might never get their confidence/attitude restored after yanking them for failing.

QBs are a much bigger boom/bust choice than corner, sure that QB can lead you to glory, but if he fails his position is the true franchise killer, not cornerback.

When was the last time you heard experts talking about how a top-10 CB pick ruined a dynasty?

There have been 4-6 corners taken in the top ten over the last 10 years that were worth the pick. There are more QBs that made it.

1) No, there haven't been more QBs that made it.

Rivers, Eli, Carson & Ryan... Sanchez is too soon to tell.

If you extend it to 1997, you get 6 QBs, since by your standards Vick would be a player the Falcons wouldn't draft again.

There may have been more taken, but it is the premier position so more weight is placed on QB.

QBs have washed out more than CBs. The willingness to gamble for QBs & DTs doesn't change the trends that they are more risky.

They are not more expensive than a CB taken in the same range.

QBs have been known to get a more expensive rookie contract than other positions, including corner.

 

[NFBuck]

If he is taken at 7 at some point he is going to start.

Wow. After a several hour long diatribe against drafting a CB in the top-10 yesterday because two many of them flop, you come back a day later and say draft Clausen. The irony here is fucking awesome. Nothing you will ever do from here on out will convince me you're not king rhabuf.

That is not a pro style offense hack, Florida runs a gimmick offense and you should know that before you go bumping your gums. You keep going back and adding names to that post while not understanding that all of those guys play in the spread.

And while you are adding that and not reading this. I am not here to do your leg work. If you are going to tell me that I cant expect Clausen to not make mistakes,

why dont you show me where I said he wasnt. I am not here to do your leg work. If you are going to have an argument, do your own digging.

Somebody just ban this moron. I don't know if he's broken any rules, but I do know he's making my head hurt.