Jim Tressel (National Champion, ex-President, Youngstown State University, CFB HOF)

[dre22era]

I rarely post on here. I admit I am more of a reader then a poster
but i must speak on this.

I was one of the few people that didn't agree wit the firing of John Cooper. Cooper had a great record, good recruiter but just couldn't beat Michigan.
I quickly forgot about Cooper and got behind Tressel.
I believe Tressel is a great coach and has an impressive record against Michigan but to my loyal fans. Do you honestly think The Ohio State Football Program in the past few years has taken a step backwards or a step forward.
Would you rather have a coach that can bring in good talent, great record but just cant beat Michigan? or
would you rather have a coach that has a good record, can beat michigan but just can't win the big game?

A previous post said that he is upset at the perception that a successful season is no longer based on winning the Big 10 but now winning the National Championship.
Yes times have changed and the overall perception of the Big 10 is a weak conference which they are correct. You have Big 10 teams losing or struggling to beat MAC Teams.
This loss was devastating it couldn't have come at a worst time. The next 2 years we play Miami which is no longer a powerhouse football program therefore we will not get the same respect as if we would of recieved if we beat USC. We will destroy Miami.

Overall Tressel is a great coach but if he continues to be a stubborn conservative coach and not hand the playbook over to the offensive coordinator then its definitely time to make a change.
I want Tressel to stay but no longer call plays.

 

[strohs]

why is it so important for Ohio State to run an offense that looks like it can't get out of its own way?

GREAT. now we're fucking Charlie Weis: hanging our hat on almost beating USC... i just puked again.

Well said.

I have never understood the rational that if you want an offense that can actually move the ball and score some points, then you dont like JT and want him fired...

 

[daveeb]

I'll never doubt his ability to coach football games. As many have stated earlier, he was blatantly outcoached in one game: Florida. I'd like to add 2008 USC to that list. But, just as Tressel redeemed himself coaching-wise against LSU, he redeemed himself against USC. It isn't the coaching.

Is TP's lack of preparation and execution really Tressel's fault? That is what I've been trying to figure out for the last week.

I'll never state that Tressel shouldn't be the head coach of The Ohio State Buckeyes football team. 7-1 is 7-1. His replacement would be a Bill Callahan or a Bret Bielema. Removing Tressel would be disastrous. His 0-6 run against Top 5 teams isn't the same as 2-10-1. People need to stop treating it as such.

Questions need to be asked, however. I dunno where to start or what questions to ask, but something is wrong. It isn't the head coach. It isn't the talent. Tressel is the right guy for the job.

Are we simply a cursed football program?

 

[ant80]

Regardless of a coach's philosophy, sometimes players play not to lose. This is only natural - no one wants to make the crucial mistake at the critical time that will ultimately lose the game. So, in the clutch, some players might tend to think more and react less, to lose confidence in their own abilities, and to play tentative in general. If the head coach has a "play not to lose" mentality, will that rub off on his players and heighten that natural tendency? I honestly do not know the answer to that question, but it might be a factor in games like Texas 2008 and USC 2009, when a young but talented Buckeye team seemed to "let the foot off the pedal" down the stretch, especially on defense. However, it could be that youth and inexperience alone are enough to explain those results.

I understand what you're trying to say here, but I have to disagree. This is the mental aspect of coaching. PC keeps his players loose. So does Meyer. I think this would fall into the coaches' shoulders as well.

But one thing that I am confused about, is the use of Pryor. Here, I am assuming the coaches known the QB development was going slowly. Instead of putting Pryor way out of his comfort zone by taking away his legs completely, why not say something like... on first and 2nd downs, you don't scramble unless you are given the go ahead. Third downs, do what you can to get the first down. Also, do what you need to do to keep the chains moving on crucial drives, especially in games against crucial opponents like So Cal. Explain to him, I know you came to tOSU because you wanted to become a pro QB, but this has to be done for the benefit of the team, at least for the time being unless you develop into a great passer.

Secondly, if JT really wants a pro style QB, why not go after a pro-style QB? Why even go after a mobile QB of the caliber of Pryor if you are going to take away his running to this extent? I'm sure that pro-style QB's can do rollouts. Of course, they can't scramble as much, but you won't go through the pain period when the QB is not running, and is unable to pass effectively, and is too much in his head thinking. To make things worse, Troy Smith became so much of a pro-style QB that he won't even scramble when he had no other option against Florida. If Pryor is going in the same direction, what's the rationale of recruiting a mobile QB if he won't use his legs even in the most dire circumstances?

 

[MaxBuck]

A few thoughts from a typical, generally clueless fan.

1. Like it or not, Ohio State, though truly an elite program, will probably always have a lower talent level than USC and Florida (or at least so long as Carroll and Meyer coach there). I say this even though Jim Tressel is probably the finest recruiter in the US - but look at the attractiveness of LA and Florida as opposed to central Ohio just as a place to live for 4 years as a college student. Add to that factor the consideration that Florida and Cali have more NFL-level talent than Ohio, and you've made the recruiting wall pretty high to scale.

2. Though talent level is a bit lower at tOSU, drafts have actually produced more draft picks from tOSU than from any other school since 99. But what proportion of those players have proven to be stellar pros? Relatively few, which really underscores how well Tressel has "fooled" pro scouts into selecting Buckeyes higher in the draft than they probably deserved to go. I'd put Vern Gohlston, AJ Hawk, Bobby Carpenter and Brian Robiskie squarely into that box - no disrespect meant, but they (though talented) were selected earlier in the draft than I thought they would be, and certainly earlier than their preliminary pro careers would suggest. Tressel coaches players into having very good draftability; if I were the parent of a HS senior gridder, I'd want my kid to play for The Senator for this very reason (along with many others).

3. For all the discussion of Tressel being outcoached, I have to say bull. USC has a substantial talent edge over the Buckeyes this season. They were thus able to play a true frosh at QB and play the ball-control game sufficiently to beat the Bucks; be clear on this - if you have the talent edge, Tresselball is the way to go in winning nearly every game you play. And what I saw from USC on Saturday was essentially Tresselball.

4. When you are talent deficient, you need to play a higher-risk approach like that of Navy, Georgia Tech, and The Rodriguezes (whatever team DickRod is currently coaching). Such a game plan will allow you to win many games you should not - and it will also cause you to lose many games you should not.

5. Like everyone else, I wish we had a more-productive offense. But I'm not smart enough to know how to get there. I'm not at all sure that hiring some hotshot O-coordinator would really do the trick so long as Tressel is at the helm, making all the big-picture decisions. And he will do that, so long as he is the head coach. Nothing in his past experience suggests otherwise. And I suspect every highly successful coach operates pretty similarly to this,

6. Any suggestion that replacing Jim Tressel as head coach with ANYONE would improve our results strikes me as so stupid that it doesn't warrant response.

Just a few ideas; most are probably dead wrong, but just ask my wife, that's typical.

 

[Jaxbuck]

This is starting to remind me of the last few years of Cooper.

There was a die hard contingent that was convinced no one could do better than his 75%, or whatever it was, win percentage. They could go down the list and rationalize almost every loss to scUM or in a Bowl game. They thought anyone calling for Coops head was spoiled and saw no reason why we should even hint at firing such a good guy simply because he had some bad luck vs scUM. They predicted all kinds of dire results that would come from firing Coop, most converted back to the old standby that there was no way the next coach would win as much. I bring it up because as the scUM losses continued to mount most of these people gave up and admitted he needed to go.

If this offense continues to be the millstone around the neck of an otherwise very good team as it has been the better part of 9 years now, the calls for Tressel's head will get louder and louder. Just a year or two ago you didn't hear it at all, now people are publicly criticizing Tressel directly not Bollman. This last game was a watershed imo as far as the fanbase being willing to call out JT. Once that jeanie gets out of the bottle its hard to ever get it back in.

I said in my first post after the game I think Tress has reached a fork in the road. I want him to stay for as long as he wants to stay but if he digs his heels in and is perceived to be willing to hurt the program to satisfy his ego (ie refuses to make offensive coaching changes) then there is no doubt in my mind it will be his undoing at OSU. It will just be a matter of time.

 

[matcar]

You present some fair questions.

First, Ohio State has experienced a talent gap in a couple of the recent big games - USC 2008 to be sure (although the team also quit to some extent after Boeckman's pick six), and I'd probably say LSU as well (although the Tigers had what amounted to a home game, and the Buckeyes made some crucial errors that night that undoubtedly had a major impact on the outcome). I can't make any definitive statement about Florida, because on that given night, the Buckeyes were completely unprepared physically, mentally, and emotionally (and yes, that is largely on the coaches), and they would have had a tough time beating Bowling Green. But it's not too difficult to believe that Florida also had a talent advantage as well, and that even a Buckeye team that was fully prepared for the game might have still lost.

In the other games, however, let's say that the overall talent was more or less equal, which is a fair assumption given that each game was a one-score contest. In Texas 2005 and Penn State 2008, one critical error by the Buckeyes was the difference - if Ryan Hamby catches an easy pass in the endzone, and if Terrelle Pryor doesn't freelance and subsequently fumble on a simple quarterback sneak, then Ohio State more than likely wins both games. Two plays - two mistakes - two losses - and Ohio State can't win the big game. Yeah, it's probably not that simple, but you see where I'm going. Call them "flukes", if you will.

Penn State 2005 was a case where a banged-up Buckeye squad with a quarterback still trying to regain his form lost in an incredibly difficult environment to a very good team. If you play that game in January on a neutral field, then maybe Ohio State pounds Penn State just like they pounded Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl. But on that given night, I think that it's fair to say that Penn State had a talent advantage, or at least that Ohio State had enough "bad luck" to put them at a clear disadvantage.

In Texas 2008, and USC 2009, the opposing quarterbacks each stepped up and made big plays in the fourth quarter, and Colt McCoy (Heisman front runner this year) and Matt Barkley (looks like a future All American) led epic game-winning drives in the final minutes. No one on Ohio State's defense was able to step up and make a huge play to stop either drive. In other words, their great players made plays in the clutch, and ours didn't - it just happens that way some times. No excuses - just give credit to the other team for having just enough to get the job done.

As far as any "'glitch' somewhere in JT's system that is not allowing them to fully meet their expectations", well MAYBE there is a slight grain truth in that statement. Many people accuse Tressel of playing not to lose, and certainly the whole key to Tresselball is to put pressure on the opponents and force them to make the crucial mistake in the clutch. The potential problem with Tresselball is twofold: (1) elite opponents do not often "crack" regardless of what you do to them, and (2) Tresselball often puts the same amount of pressure on your own team, and sometimes your guys are the one who "crack". Could the latter explain some of the near misses? Perhaps Texas 2005 and Penn State 2008, where one miscue by an Ohio State player late in the game turned the tide against the Buckeyes.

Regardless of a coach's philosophy, sometimes players play not to lose. This is only natural - no one wants to make the crucial mistake at the critical time that will ultimately lose the game. So, in the clutch, some players might tend to think more and react less, to lose confidence in their own abilities, and to play tentative in general. If the head coach has a "play not to lose" mentality, will that rub off on his players and heighten that natural tendency? I honestly do not know the answer to that question, but it might be a factor in games like Texas 2008 and USC 2009, when a young but talented Buckeye team seemed to "let the foot off the pedal" down the stretch, especially on defense. However, it could be that youth and inexperience alone are enough to explain those results.

In the end, it is just plain difficult to beat elite teams, no matter who you are, and that is the biggest factor of all.

I think the part in bold nails it and is why some are so frustrated (myself included) because you create as many problems for yourself as you do your opponents and when your opponents are just as talented as you...well your probably going to go 50/50 in those games at best. And recently we've been less than 50/50 against the good teams.

 

[BuckeyeNation36]

Well said.

I have never understood the rational that if you want an offense that can actually move the ball and score some points, then you dont like JT and want him fired...

Thank You. I would like to see a new O Coordinator.

I like Tressel but he's definitely getting outcoached in the big games and there's no moral victories if you wish to challenge for the top prize. I love the 7-1 Michigan record but Rich Rod will soon change that, since he brings some actual imagination to his Offense. Penn St. is already better.

Being stubborn doesn't impress the opposition any more. The Buckeyes are imposing to very few opponents.

Way overdue for a shakeup.

 

[BayBuck]

This is starting to remind me of the last few years of Cooper.

Ridiculous.

There is virtually no criticism of Cooper that currently applies to Tressel (who has proven repeatedly he can win bowls and rivalry games and churns out upstanding young graduates at an impressive rate while recruiting with the best of 'em), and anyone thinking winning at an 80% clip with a Big-Ten record streak isn't good enough because Tressel's doing it his way and not ESPN's, well, they really are spoiled. If Tressel ends up having an "undoing" before he retires on his own terms, it will be the same thing that undid every Buckeye coach before him: our spoiled fans and our ridiculous expectations.

JT may have lost the last 6 of our biggest games against elite opponents, but the last three were close losses that could have gone either way, and after this weekend I get the sense that harsher criticism is coming from our own fanbase than from our rivals or the national media.

 

[matcar]

Ridiculous.

There is virtually no criticism of Cooper that currently applies to Tressel (who has proven repeatedly he can win bowls and rivalry games and churns out upstanding young graduates at an impressive rate while recruiting with the best of 'em), and anyone thinking winning at an 80% clip with a Big-Ten record streak isn't good enough because Tressel's doing it his way and not ESPN's, well, they really are spoiled. If Tressel ends up having an "undoing" before he retires on his own terms, it will be the same thing that undid every Buckeye coach before him: our spoiled fans and our ridiculous expectations.

JT may have lost the last 6 of our biggest games against elite opponents, but the last three were close losses that could have gone either way, and after this weekend I get the sense that harsher criticism is coming from our own fanbase than from our rivals or the national media.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Our fans ARE spoiled, but any of those pleading for changes are only echoing the national sentiment that has existed for a couple years now.

 

[BayBuck]

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Our fans ARE spoiled, but any of those pleading for changes are only echoing the national sentiment that has existed for a couple years now.

You don't think it's ridiculous to compare today to the end of the Cooper era? Allow me to refresh your memory about a time when OSU couldn't beat Michigan, never won the Big Ten outright, had serious academic and chemistry issues and had 10 losses in Cooper's last two years... You cannot legitimately compare Tressel's stubborn offensive philosophies to the endemic problems that wracked the program in the "last few years of Cooper".

Finally catching up with national sentiment is no reason to turn on the man who will possibly finish as our best coach ever with another decade of "Tresselball", whatever form it may take.

 

[strohs]

1. Like it or not, Ohio State, though truly an elite program, will probably always have a lower talent level than USC and Florida (or at least so long as Carroll and Meyer coach there).

Personally I disagree with that. I think the talent level at tOSU is at worst equal to any of the top teams in the country. Just look at the NFL if you want proof. Recuriting talent has never been the issue with Tressel.
The biggest difference though is the way the talent is used.
Meyer and Carroll put their players in a position to make plays. They might make more mistakes this way, but the upside is many many times higher than with JT's offense.

 

[strohs]

Finally catching up with national sentiment is no reason to turn on the man who will possibly finish as our best coach ever with another decade of "Tresselball", whatever form it may take.

Tresselball used to mean winning the big game more times that not...
But, again I ask, why cant you play Tresselball AND STILL SCORE POINTS?????

 

[osugrad21]

Personally I disagree with that. I think the talent level at tOSU is at worst equal to any of the top teams in the country. Just look at the NFL if you want proof. Recuriting talent has never been the issue with Tressel.
The biggest difference though is the way the talent is used.
Meyer and Carroll put their players in a position to make plays. They might make more mistakes this way, but the upside is many many times higher than with JT's offense.

The QB talent has been equivalent to USC? Hell, RB?

 

[strohs]

The QB talent has been equivalent to USC? Hell, RB?

You dont think Pryor is more talented than Barkley? USC's RB talent right now is insane, but is the LB corp as deep as Ohio States?
Obviously each team is going to have its strengths and weaknesses...
Talent is not the reason they lost the game.